2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating | Page 788 | Golden Skate

2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

I’m going crazy here waiting for them to release the official list of Jr. Nats participants. I mean we are cutting it very close now!!
 
Yuna Luna said:
Anya, Sasha and Alëna will have some big competition next year! Aside from having two triple axels in her free program, Rika Kihira is now confirmed training and landing 4T and 4S. :)

https://youtu.be/q9aOXEi8czc
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Hate to say it cause I love her skating without the flashy big jumps, but my beautiful Alena will have to include at least one 3A in her programs to compete for medals with these three girls :(
 
Yeah and because she’s first year senior she will probably get some lower PCS than she deserves. But maybe she’ll pull off another 2018 JGPF.
 
Scott512 said:
Of course nyet;) This is a kind place. ;) Alina certainly had the best single season any female Russian figure skater ever had and it was also the greatest debut season in history figure skating woman or man.
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I don't follow this- Alina's senior debut wasn't undefeated- does her win at the Olympics completely negate her hard fall at Worlds? And her second season so far has not been undefeated either. Whereas Evgenia did go essentially undefeated for two years straight on her senior debut (I don't think her silver at 2015 Rostelecom is as much of a miss as Alina's 5th at 2018 Worlds, or her recent loss at Euros). I'd personally say that Evgenia's first two senior seasons collectively are more impressive than Alina's feats, even though Alina got the OGM.

Really, though, it's just too early to really compare Alina to Evgenia. We need to see how Alina's second senior season pans out in full. If Alina misses the gold at Worlds this year too, then I'd say that Evgenia's first two senior seasons were more successful than Alina's. If Alina wins the gold this year, then I'd probably say Evgenia and Alina are fairly tied- 2x World Champion while undefeated would be more or less equal to OGM+World Champion with a couple misses along the way. And, of course, if Alina's third year goes better than Evgenia's third and fourth have been going, then Alina's got a strong argument for being the greater skater.

Overall, it's far too soon to say that either Evgenia or Alina is the greatest Russian lady of all time, let alone if one of the 3As starts dominating next year and we start saying that that girl is the greatest. Longevity isn't everything, but a bright star that flames out quickly isn't necessarily the greatest either- a single great season owes too much to too many factors other than the skater's skill, like the depth of competition in the field or injuries to rivals, or rule changes. Evgenia was lucky to have weaker competition than Alina does; Alina was lucky that Evgenia was injured just before the GPF/Euros/Olympics. Only doing consistently well over a long period of time, even if it's not universal wins, is the true mark of a genuinely great skater, not one who was just lucky enough to have a good streak at just the right time.
 
jillredhand said:
I don't follow this- Alina's senior debut wasn't undefeated- does her win at the Olympics completely negate her hard fall at Worlds? And her second season so far has not been undefeated either. Whereas Evgenia did go essentially undefeated for two years straight on her senior debut (I don't think her silver at 2015 Rostelecom is as much of a miss as Alina's 5th at 2018 Worlds, or her recent loss at Euros). I'd personally say that Evgenia's first two senior seasons collectively are more impressive than Alina's feats, even though Alina got the OGM.

Really, though, it's just too early to really compare Alina to Evgenia. We need to see how Alina's second senior season pans out in full. If Alina misses the gold at Worlds this year too, then I'd say that Evgenia's first two senior seasons were more successful than Alina's. If Alina wins the gold this year, then I'd probably say Evgenia and Alina are fairly tied- 2x World Champion while undefeated would be more or less equal to OGM+World Champion with a couple misses along the way. And, of course, if Alina's third year goes better than Evgenia's third and fourth have been going, then Alina's got a strong argument for being the greater skater.

Overall, it's far too soon to say that either Evgenia or Alina is the greatest Russian lady of all time, let alone if one of the 3As starts dominating next year and we start saying that that girl is the greatest. Longevity isn't everything, but a bright star that flames out quickly isn't necessarily the greatest either- a single great season owes too much to too many factors other than the skater's skill, like the depth of competition in the field or injuries to rivals, or rule changes. Evgenia was lucky to have weaker competition than Alina does; Alina was lucky that Evgenia was injured just before the GPF/Euros/Olympics. Only doing consistently well over a long period of time, even if it's not universal wins, is the true mark of a genuinely great skater, not one who was just lucky enough to have a good streak at just the right time.
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Fair points. But OGM trumps all to some people. Alina should not have even gone to worlds.

My question was who's the greatest Russian ladies figure skater of all time and due to longevity most say its Irina. Too soon for Zhenya znd Alina.
 
Scott512 said:
Fair points. But OGM trumps all to some people. Alina should not have even gone to worlds.

My question was who's the greatest Russian ladies figure skater of all time and due to longevity most say its Irina. Too soon for Zhenya znd Alina.
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I would extend that and say - 1. Slutskaya 2. Butyrskaya 3. Medvedeva 4.Tuktamysheva 5. Zagitova. Time will tell what Med/Zag and Tuk can do in the future, but Slutskaya/Butyrskaya is hard to catch IMO.
 
starlight97 said:
Hate to say it cause I love her skating without the flashy big jumps, but my beautiful Alena will have to include at least one 3A in her programs to compete for medals with these three girls :(
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Alenas skating will last and is the most beautiful skating. She will endure while many other girls are pnishing their little bodie by doing quads and triple axels daily. One might say that's a form of Russian Roulette with what some of these pre puberty girls are doing to their bodies. Inluding Rika. I hope they all hold up though.
 
Jontor said:
I would extend that and say - 1. Slutskaya 2. Butyrskaya 3. Medvedeva 4.Tuktamysheva 5. Zagitova. Time will tell what Med/Zag and Tuk can do in the future, but Slutskaya/Butyrskaya is hard to catch IMO.
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I agree with #1
 
TripleAxelQueens3 said:
Yeah and because she’s first year senior she will probably get some lower PCS than she deserves. But maybe she’ll pull off another 2018 JGPF.
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I really hate the way PCS is currently scored. Some seniors with big reps get overscored, new skaters get underscored despite displaying similar or even superior qualitative skating. Alyona is the most solid all around in the PCS. Sasha deserves solid SS and TR, higher than Liza Tuks and Sofia but is still raw in the performance and interpretive aspects. Anya is vice versa deserving of high performance and musical skills but weaker in SS. They all deserved to be scored according to what they put out rather than juniorish reputation.
 
jillredhand said:
I don't follow this- Alina's senior debut wasn't undefeated- does her win at the Olympics completely negate her hard fall at Worlds? And her second season so far has not been undefeated either. Whereas Evgenia did go essentially undefeated for two years straight on her senior debut (I don't think her silver at 2015 Rostelecom is as much of a miss as Alina's 5th at 2018 Worlds, or her recent loss at Euros). I'd personally say that Evgenia's first two senior seasons collectively are more impressive than Alina's feats, even though Alina got the OGM.

Really, though, it's just too early to really compare Alina to Evgenia. We need to see how Alina's second senior season pans out in full. If Alina misses the gold at Worlds this year too, then I'd say that Evgenia's first two senior seasons were more successful than Alina's. If Alina wins the gold this year, then I'd probably say Evgenia and Alina are fairly tied- 2x World Champion while undefeated would be more or less equal to OGM+World Champion with a couple misses along the way. And, of course, if Alina's third year goes better than Evgenia's third and fourth have been going, then Alina's got a strong argument for being the greater skater.

Overall, it's far too soon to say that either Evgenia or Alina is the greatest Russian lady of all time, let alone if one of the 3As starts dominating next year and we start saying that that girl is the greatest. Longevity isn't everything, but a bright star that flames out quickly isn't necessarily the greatest either- a single great season owes too much to too many factors other than the skater's skill, like the depth of competition in the field or injuries to rivals, or rule changes. Evgenia was lucky to have weaker competition than Alina does; Alina was lucky that Evgenia was injured just before the GPF/Euros/Olympics. Only doing consistently well over a long period of time, even if it's not universal wins, is the true mark of a genuinely great skater, not one who was just lucky enough to have a good streak at just the right time.
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i'd say OGM trumps pretty much anything except for 2 OGMs. if zhenya had been pretty much undefeated for an entire quad and then lost at the olympics it'd be different but i don't think 2 seasons is more impressive than alina's senior debut season.
 
jillredhand said:
Only doing consistently well over a long period of time, even if it's not universal wins, is the true mark of a genuinely great skater, not one who was just lucky enough to have a good streak at just the right time.
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Agree here. 'Greatest female Russian figure skater of all time'? Slutskaya has a decade+ leading the Russian ladies on the senior circuit with 6 world medals, including 2 titles, and two Olympic medals plus her numerous achievements like being the first woman, in competition, to land a 3Lz+3Lo. 3/4 of one season of glory in seniors and then totally going in the opposite direction really doesn't hold a candle in comparison.
 
jillredhand said:
I don't follow this- Alina's senior debut wasn't undefeated- does her win at the Olympics completely negate her hard fall at Worlds? And her second season so far has not been undefeated either. Whereas Evgenia did go essentially undefeated for two years straight on her senior debut (I don't think her silver at 2015 Rostelecom is as much of a miss as Alina's 5th at 2018 Worlds, or her recent loss at Euros). I'd personally say that Evgenia's first two senior seasons collectively are more impressive than Alina's feats, even though Alina got the OGM.

Really, though, it's just too early to really compare Alina to Evgenia. We need to see how Alina's second senior season pans out in full. If Alina misses the gold at Worlds this year too, then I'd say that Evgenia's first two senior seasons were more successful than Alina's. If Alina wins the gold this year, then I'd probably say Evgenia and Alina are fairly tied- 2x World Champion while undefeated would be more or less equal to OGM+World Champion with a couple misses along the way. And, of course, if Alina's third year goes better than Evgenia's third and fourth have been going, then Alina's got a strong argument for being the greater skater.

Overall, it's far too soon to say that either Evgenia or Alina is the greatest Russian lady of all time, let alone if one of the 3As starts dominating next year and we start saying that that girl is the greatest. Longevity isn't everything, but a bright star that flames out quickly isn't necessarily the greatest either- a single great season owes too much to too many factors other than the skater's skill, like the depth of competition in the field or injuries to rivals, or rule changes. Evgenia was lucky to have weaker competition than Alina does; Alina was lucky that Evgenia was injured just before the GPF/Euros/Olympics. Only doing consistently well over a long period of time, even if it's not universal wins, is the true mark of a genuinely great skater, not one who was just lucky enough to have a good streak at just the right time.
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I think to some extent any "greatest skater of Russia" (or any nation/generation) is going to have some bias based on your favorites. I would argue that you're biased towards Evgenia because you're her fan, which is completely fine and understandable. I agree that Evgenia was very dominant, more so than Alina, but she was facing relatively weaker fields (no Rika Kihira, and Liza Tuk was not doing her best). She also kept basically the same program layout for both short and free for at least 2, maybe even 3 seasons in a row. I would argue that her dominance was in large part thanks to the genius of Eteri, though ultimately that strategy failed her.

Also, it is incredibly unfair to dismiss Alina's amazing season and Olympic Gold Medal as "one who was just lucky enough to have a good streak at just the right time." Seriously? Even Alina's critics this season will admit she had a fabulous last season. And in saying that, you are basically also dismissing over half of the Olympic women's gold medalists in figure skating history. Do you really want to go there? Comments like yours are exactly why people retire right after winning the OGM.
 
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