2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Fluture]

The fact that the gap between Lizas worst score(188) is closer to Zhenyas best(197) than between Zheynas best and Lizas best(215) internationally, makes me wonder why Zhenya should have an advantage over her. Liza really only had one "bad" overall skate, where she didn't have any major falls, while as Zhenya had how many two clwan skates at one competition this season? 0? Exactly. So, I do think if we go anything by "the skaters need to earn it in the season and not because of past achievements" no, Zhenya should not be on the team this season and it's deservandly Lizas(but we do know people like to have double standards when it comes to their favorites )

I don‘t disagree with the overall statement, Liza has definitely deserved her spot. I‘ve said like a hundred times already this season that I‘d like Zhenya to go to Universiade and am actually very reluctant about the prospect of her going to Worlds and would only be happy with it if she showed two confident and clean skates with high scores at the RCF.

But I still feel the need to correct one thing in your post: I don‘t know if I understood you wrongly maybe but Zhenya‘s best score this season is actually 204, not 197.

Again, I will wait until the RCF and reserve my judgment until then. I would like to see both Zhenya and Liza again this season and am sad that they won‘t be able to both go to Worlds. I‘m not going to lie and hide my bias, though, if Zhenya skates exceptionally well at the RCF, I will support her for the Worlds spot. I‘m her fan after all. If she messes up, well then it will be probably better for everyone if Liza goes.

 

[DanseMacabre]

The fact that the gap between Lizas worst score(188) is closer to Zhenyas best(197) than between Zheynas best and Lizas best(215) internationally, makes me wonder why Zhenya should have an advantage over her.

I don't have a horse in this race (though I do think Liza's fall season puts her in a better position for the World team), but to be a stickler for facts, Zhenya's season's best is technically the 204.89 she earned at Autumn Classic. Admittedly, as a CS event, it lacks the prestige and depth of a GP but it does count toward the international SB scoring according to the ISU. We all know CS scoring can be a bit wild but the score does count. Also, Liza's best is 219.02 from NHK.

 

[[email protected]]

The fact that the gap between Lizas worst score(188) is closer to Zhenyas best(197) than between Zheynas best and Lizas best(215) internationally, makes me wonder why Zhenya should have an advantage over her. Liza really only had one "bad" overall skate, where she didn't have any major falls, while as Zhenya had how many two clwan skates at one competition this season? 0? Exactly. So, I do think if we go anything by "the skaters need to earn it in the season and not because of past achievements" no, Zhenya should not be on the team this season and it's deservandly Lizas(but we do know people like to have double standards when it comes to their favorites )

I can tell you just my perspective on that. It may or may not has anything to do with the reality.

Zhenya used to be the embodiment of consistency for several seasons. Even recovering from an injury she showed 2 terrific performances during the OG. Hence, what came after that might be a very hard transition to a new reality. But it is half a year now since she started with Borser. There were glimpse of hope already. If she shows that she is "skating business" during Cup of Russia it will be a good indicator that we can expect her strong performance in Japan as well.

Liza, on the other hand, had only 1 strong season: 2014-15. After that she was the embodiment of inconsistency. She had a very strong start this season but we don't know if this streak is going to continue. She had a weak outing in Slovenia. If she has the second weak outing in a roll, chances are high that the worlds won't be different.

Zhenya, Liza higher than 200 with Zhenya more than 5 points ahead - Zhenya, less than 5 points ahead - Liza
Zhenya, Liza both lower than 190 with Stasya above 200 - Stasya

There could be scenarios where the outcome of the 3rd spot quest is very difficult to foresee like: Stasya 201, Zhenya 198, Liza 193

 

[narcissa]

Hi everyone, some friends and I launched a site to archive figure skating videos.

http://skatingportal.com/videos

It's been difficult to find most skating videos on YouTube, Google, etc. so we made a place where we could archive videos being uploaded to sites like bilibili, Google Drive, openload.co, etc. especially for people who can't read Chinese/Russian etc. Uploading is a bitttt complex but here we tried to come up with detailed directions: https://skatingportal.com/upload-faq/ (usually it just involves pasting in the iframe embed code of the video).

For me personally I never know where to find videos of young Russian skaters that people talk about on this thread. Would love it if someone was interested in letting us collect those videos on the site

P.S. there's a lot of bugs as we just launched this. If you run into a bug please contact ^^

 

[LenaRadiFan]

I don‘t disagree with the overall statement, Liza has definitely deserved her spot. I‘ve said like a hundred times already this season that I‘d like Zhenya to go to Universiade and am actually very reluctant about the prospect of her going to Worlds and would only be happy with it if she showed two confident and clean skates with high scores at the RCF.

But I still feel the need to correct one thing in your post: I don‘t know if I understood you wrongly maybe but Zhenya‘s best score this season is actually 204, not 197.

Again, I will wait until the RCF and reserve my judgment until then. I would like to see both Zhenya and Liza again this season and am sad that they won‘t be able to both go to Worlds. I‘m not going to lie and hide my bias, though, if Zhenya skates exceptionally well at the RCF, I will support her for the Worlds spot. I‘m her fan after all. If she messes up, well then it will be probably better for everyone if Liza goes.

First of all, I agree with you that Zhenya should go to Universade(I don't understand why she's not selected to go btw) and second, I didn't count russian national scores bc of inflation and yadda yadda yadda or did she score 204 internationally as well once?

 

[Koatterce]

First of all, I agree with you that Zhenya should go to Universade(I don't understand why she's not selected to go btw) and second, I didn't count russian national scores bc of inflation and yadda yadda yadda or did she score 204 internationally as well once?

she scored 204 at Autumn Classic

 

[LenaRadiFan]

I can tell you just my perspective on that. It may or may not has anything to do with the reality.

Zhenya used to be the embodiment of consistency for several seasons. Even recovering from an injury she showed 2 terrific performances during the OG. Hence, what came after that might be a very hard transition to a new reality. But it is half a year now since she started with Borser. There were glimpse of hope already. If she shows that she is "skating business" during Cup of Russia it will be a good indicator that we can expect her strong performance in Japan as well.

Liza, on the other hand, had only 1 strong season: 2014-15. After that she was the embodiment of inconsistency. She had a very strong start this season but we don't know if this streak is going to continue. She had a weak outing in Slovenia. If she has the second weak outing in a roll, chances are high that the worlds won't be different.

Zhenya, Liza higher than 200 with Zhenya more than 5 points ahead - Zhenya, less than 5 points ahead - Liza
Zhenya, Liza both lower than 190 with Stasya above 200 - Stasya

There could be scenarios where the outcome of the 3rd spot quest is very difficult to foresee like: Stasya 201, Zhenya 198, Liza 193

So what I'm getting is that an argument why you would give Zhenya the worlds spot is because of past achievements regardless of how much better Liza performed overall this season?

 

[Fluture]

First of all, I agree with you that Zhenya should go to Universade(I don't understand why she's not selected to go btw) and second, I didn't count russian national scores bc of inflation and yadda yadda yadda or did she score 204 internationally as well once?

Internationally. I would not count Nationals, it‘s more than inflated for everyone of the top skaters. She scored 204 at Autumn Classics. It‘s a Challenger Event but it‘s usually pretty strict with judging, considering it‘s neither a GP nor ISU championship. I was just saying it for the record, in the end it actually doesn’t change much we‘ll still have to wait for the RCF. I just hope we‘ll get a clear result, I don‘t want more drama.

 

[Jontor]

There could be scenarios where the outcome of the 3rd spot quest is very difficult to foresee like: Stasya 201, Zhenya 198, Liza 193

I think that Konstantinova has the upper hand here. After all she is the senior "champion" from RusNat and that makes her case very strong.

 

[Resa]

I can tell you just my perspective on that. It may or may not has anything to do with the reality.

Zhenya used to be the embodiment of consistency for several seasons. Even recovering from an injury she showed 2 terrific performances during the OG. Hence, what came after that might be a very hard transition to a new reality. But it is half a year now since she started with Borser. There were glimpse of hope already. If she shows that she is "skating business" during Cup of Russia it will be a good indicator that we can expect her strong performance in Japan as well.

Liza, on the other hand, had only 1 strong season: 2014-15. After that she was the embodiment of inconsistency. She had a very strong start this season but we don't know if this streak is going to continue. She had a weak outing in Slovenia. If she has the second weak outing in a roll, chances are high that the worlds won't be different.

Zhenya, Liza higher than 200 with Zhenya more than 5 points ahead - Zhenya, less than 5 points ahead - Liza
Zhenya, Liza both lower than 190 with Stasya above 200 - Stasya

There could be scenarios where the outcome of the 3rd spot quest is very difficult to foresee like: Stasya 201, Zhenya 198, Liza 193

Liza's 2011/12 season was great as well, and the 2012/13 season was also good. She won 2013 Russian Nationals. So the only seasons where she was not good are the pre-olympic ones

 

[Elucidus]

And what if, let's say, Tarusina will win the Russian Cup Final? Will she be assigned to WC team or not?

 

[katymay]

And what if, let's say, Tarusina will win the Russian Cup Final? Will she be assigned to WC team or not?

I thought Gulyakova looked pretty good in Slovenia-better than Liza (except for a weird fall). On the other hand, the stream was so bad it was hard to tell. But really there are,in my opinion, at least 6 girls who ought to be considered for the spot.

 

[[email protected]]

So what I'm getting is that an argument why you would give Zhenya the worlds spot is because of past achievements regardless of how much better Liza performed overall this season?

If you picked from what I wrote only "past achievements" then let it be that way.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

And what if, let's say, Tarusina will win the Russian Cup Final? Will she be assigned to WC team or not?

Then with her and Sofia, I wouldn't worry about spots
Now this is actually a very good scenario to me :think:

 

[[email protected]]

Liza's 2011/12 season was great as well, and the 2012/13 season was also good. She won 2013 Russian Nationals. So the only seasons where she was not good are the pre-olympic ones

Liza did not have a single strong performance in 2015/16, 2016/17, and 2017/18
I think that this matters more than 11/12 and 12/13.

 

[moriel]

I personally do not support such skate out, and I think that, if rusfed decides to take Stasya's spot away, Liza should go as 1st alternate. Why?
1. Body of work
2. In recent years, rusfed did no skateoffs. This creates a very dangerous precedent. Because everybody who bombed rusnats will want a skateoff. And should have one, since if Zhenya deserves it, why not for example Anna / Alexandra or Alena in case they bomb rusnats next year and don't get a sport. If such skateoff is not done next year with the alternates, that would be utterly unfair to them.

 

[Jontor]

The only time I can see that the results from the Russian Cup changed anything was perhaps back in 2014? Pogorilaya was sent to Worlds after winning the cup, she replaced Leonova who had just finished a respectable 4th at Euros.
After that, the results from Cup of Russia don't seem to have mattered at all.

 

[Tolstoj]

I can tell you just my perspective on that. It may or may not has anything to do with the reality.

Zhenya used to be the embodiment of consistency for several seasons. Even recovering from an injury she showed 2 terrific performances during the OG. Hence, what came after that might be a very hard transition to a new reality. But it is half a year now since she started with Borser. There were glimpse of hope already. If she shows that she is "skating business" during Cup of Russia it will be a good indicator that we can expect her strong performance in Japan as well.

Liza, on the other hand, had only 1 strong season: 2014-15. After that she was the embodiment of inconsistency. She had a very strong start this season but we don't know if this streak is going to continue. She had a weak outing in Slovenia. If she has the second weak outing in a roll, chances are high that the worlds won't be different.

Zhenya, Liza higher than 200 with Zhenya more than 5 points ahead - Zhenya, less than 5 points ahead - Liza
Zhenya, Liza both lower than 190 with Stasya above 200 - Stasya

There could be scenarios where the outcome of the 3rd spot quest is very difficult to foresee like: Stasya 201, Zhenya 198, Liza 193

Liza had a weak outing at Bavarian Open before winning Worlds in 2015, scores at these events mean very little, especially for Mishin who uses those merely as tests to prepare his athletes, rather than expecting clean performances all the time.

I also disagree with your statement that she only had one strong season: she was very strong in 2011-12 and 2012-13.

Then 16-17 if you actually go back and watch her programs she skated clean most of the time, it's just judges didn't want to give her high marks anymore for some reason. 17-18 also she was underscored at the first GP event despite clean and bombed the second.

This season she was always on the podium, unlike Medvedeva and Konstantinova.

So her fight was more on getting back that status, and judges made it clear the 3A is now giving her an edge, without that she is not a top skater, but with the 3A, she can score higher than any of the russians, something you can't really say about Medvedeva right now.

And not to take away anything from the other skaters, i like all 3 of them, but RusFed needs to be realistic:

- Stasya always bombed one of the two programs except at Nationals, with the level of competition you have right now, there is no chance you can medal that way.

- Zhenya needs to skate super clean programs at the Cup Final because she has been struggling all season, and understandably so given the big change she is dealing with.

I don't think Federation should put that much pressure on Liza on doing these many events (right before Worlds): we are talking about an athlete who just recovered from illness, you should support it rather than expecting clean performances immediately.

I'm worried some influential people will push Liza out, not because of merits but only because they like Stanislava or Evgenia more (and they'll do that by overscoring at Cup Final) and that is just a very unprofessional way of handling things, that could potentially damage Russia's three spots considering Zagitova is also in a bad shape right now and she could bomb again at Worlds, so Russia needs another podium contender.

 

[IndiaP12]

Liza had a weak outing at Bavarian Open before winning Worlds in 2015, scores at these events mean very little, especially for Mishin who uses those merely as tests to prepare his athletes, rather than expecting clean performances all the time.

I also disagree with your statement that she only had one strong season: she was very strong in 2011-12 and 2012-13.

Then 16-17 if you actually go back and watch her programs she skated clean most of the time, it's just judges didn't want to give her high marks anymore for some reason. 17-18 also she was underscored at the first GP event despite clean and bombed the second.

This season she was always on the podium, unlike Medvedeva and Konstantinova.

So her fight was more on getting back that status, and judges made it clear the 3A is now giving her an edge, without that she is not a top skater, but with the 3A, she can score higher than any of the russians, something you can't really say about Medvedeva right now.

And not to take away anything from the other skaters, i like all 3 of them, but RusFed needs to be realistic:

- Stasya always bombed one of the two programs except at Nationals, with the level of competition you have right now, there is no chance you can medal that way.

- Zhenya needs to skate super clean programs at the Cup Final because she has been struggling all season, and understandably so given the big change she is dealing with.

I don't think Federation should put that much pressure on Liza on doing these many events (right before Worlds): we are talking about an athlete who just recovered from illness, you should support it rather than expecting clean performances immediately.

I'm worried some influential people will push Liza out, not because of merits but only because they like Stanislava or Evgenia more (and they'll do that by overscoring at Cup Final) and that is just a very unprofessional way of handling things, that could potentially damage Russia's three spots considering Zagitova is also in a bad shape right now and she could bomb again at Worlds, so Russia needs another podium contender.

I’m sure Sofia will secure Russia’s three spots. She always skates clean so she has a good chance of even podiuming at worlds cause she seems to raise her PB almost every competition.

 

[lusterfan]

Here's my personal take on this:

Scenario A: Liza is healthy and regains her form.
Worlds Team A: Alina, Sofia, Liza

Scenario B: Liza is not healthy and does not regain her form.
Worlds Team B: Alina, Sofia, Zhenya

Alina: SB 238.43 - Euros Silver. RusNats Silver (among seniors). GPF Silver. One of the only ladies to contend with Rika for gold. Sure she had several meltdowns, but her meltdown score of 198.34 is still higher than Stasya's SB and a not bad score nonetheless for a meltdown. Aside from Sofia and Liza, all the other contenders are inconsistent as well, so why not take the OGM who has much higher dividends? Even with her a meltdown, her PCS will keep her from falling too low anyway.

Liza: SB 219.02 - GPF Bronze. Without her illness, she would've hands down been on the team. However, her recent showing with a score of 188 was not ideal. If she does not improve upon this at the Russian Cup Final or Universiade, then it wouldn't be the best idea to send her (assuming Zhenya or Stasya don't meltdown as well). Unfortunate illness timing, but Russia should send whoever will be most ready at Worlds, not necessarily who performed best several months ago.

Sofia: SB 213.84 - Euros Gold. RusNats Bronze (among seniors). She was consistent all year and earned her spot especially as the newly minted Euros champion. She demonstrates readiness for Worlds by placing well at a recent competition (Euros) and has momentum from winning there.
----
Zhenya: SB 204.89 - Her SB was from the beginning of the season at a CS and her score has only gone down since, but I think people aren't giving her enough credit. She was the highest scoring Senior at RusNats in the Free Skate. Her SP may have been a fluke due to introducing a new program. Even her total score wasn't too far off from Stasya/Alina/Sofia. If she can perform solidly at Russian Cup Final (assuming Liza doesn't have her form regained yet) then she deserves the Worlds spot for being ready now. Besides, international judges still award her with the highest PCS and that helps a great deal.

Stasya: SB 197.57 - RusNats Silver (among seniors). Her SB is around what all the other girls score at their worst. RusNats may shower her with PCS but her international FS PCS have been less than stellar: 59.68, 61.15, 61.44, 63.43, 66.92. International judges don't seem to favor her that much, and without a good PCS score, even assuming she goes clean, TES will only carry her so far. Inflating her PCS at home and giving her the win won't help with Worlds spots. I do enjoy her skating quite a bit, but I don't think she is better reputation-wise, consistency-wise, or even scoring-wise compared to the other contenders.