2018-19 Russian Ladies' figure skating

[Manitou]

Hmm, it's about individual skaters?
But Alina should not get a spot because you want to send a Message to Eteri by treating an individual skater unfairly.

Please explai, I don't understand your logic.

If the competition were truly individual then not only Alina would get a spot, but also Evgenia, Sofia, Liza, Stasya, Masha, plus possibly an equal number of Japanese ladies. Then we would not see a “no child left behind” show, but a truly competitive world championships with all the best skaters from the world. The world champion would be a true world champion.

Now, addressing your question, as we already have a sick and twisted system and we already deal with those idiotic three spots, from the Rusfed point of view it would be beneficial to maybe make some attempt to address yet another problem within the Russian training system itself. A problem that in this particular case is not related to the 3 spot issue we are talking about.

 

[malya]

Spain will have 2 spots in the European Men next year while they don't even have one men at Worlds this season with the TES requirements.

It's not even a problem to accomodate another skater who 'doesn't deserve to be there', every country has a spot so many skaters don't 'deserve' to be here if you have to compete with the top.

By that logic if Russia sents Zhenya, Liza and Sofia this year all there don't deserve to be at worlds because Alina and Masha earned the 3 spots and were not at 2018 worlds.

 

[malya]

If the competition were truly individual then not only Alina would get a spot, but also Evgenia, Sofia, Liza, Stasya, Masha, plus possibly an equal number of Japanese ladies. Then we would not see a “no child left behind” show, but a truly competitive world championships with all the best skaters from the world. The world champion would be a true world champion.
Now, as we already have a sick and twisted system and we already deal with those idiotic three spots, from the Rusfed point of view it would be beneficial to maybe make some attempt to address yet another problem within the Russian training system itself. A problem that in this particular case is not related to the 3 spot issue we are talking about.

I don't agree with an 'individual' selection for worlds spots, but I can understand your point. But with the 3 spots federations also sent the 3 skaters with the most chances to do well, or try to - why should that change?

Eteri has (for once) nothing to do with the problems RusFed has with the team selection and is a completely different issue.

 

[Manitou]

Then it is not a world championship. It would boil down to being nothing more than a Japan/ Russia championship. That would do nothing to encourage other countries to develop/ send skaters ..

It IS a world championships. It is open to EVERYONE. Nobody is slamming the door shut right into the faces of Samoan or Nicaraguan skaters. They are invited as much as Japanese, Russian or American skaters. Exactly as much. No less.
The point is that in order to make those door open you have to earn it by merit. It’s simple. Earn it. Once you earn it it doesn’t matter where you are from.

And international sports should never be a place of any kind of “affirmative actions”. Never.

 

[malya]

It IS a world championships. It is open to EVERYONE. Nobody is slamming the door shut right into the faces of Samoan or Nicaraguan skaters. They are invited as much as Japanese, Russian or American skaters. Exactly as much. No less.
The point is that in order to make those door open to you you have to earn it by your merit. It’s simple. Earn it. Once you earn it it doesn’t matter where you are from.

And where should they earn it? FS is a judged sport and sadly you have to earn your reputation to get scores.

The Samoan scater should earn her scores to get the ranking to get invited to GPs and 4CC/WC where?
Maybe an event like the CC where Rika Kihira just skated and got barely over 200pts because she didn't have a big reputation with the judges there yet (while she would have gotten 220+ with an international reputation or at the WC)
An unknown girl from Samoan might be good but would have many problems getting adequate scores there.

 

[Manitou]

And where should they earn it? FS is a judged sport and sadly you have to earn your reputation to get scores.

The thing is that in reality no matter how many Medvedevas and Tuktamyshevas we sacrifice in the name of popularization figure skating in Samoa, most likely there will never be a single skater from Samoa anyway.
Fernandez succeeded not because of affirmative actions, but because of his own individual passion and commitment. And that applies to Samoan skaters too. That’s the general rule in everything in life.

 

[taylor1]

My final prediction for the Worlds team is Zagitova, Samodurova, and Tuktamysheva. If it's anything different from this, I'll be shocked

 

[hippomoomin]

I am glad the poll does not seem to be rigged, even though the order in which the names appear in each combination shows some agenda. It is not really following alphabetic order.

It's a VK group (similar to Facebook?), though with the name being Russian Figure Skating I can see anyone's confusion. But it's good to see that the folks in that group aren't delusional about their picks for the World team!



English Translation:
Alexander Gorshkov:
“By February 25, an application list for the World Cup will be formed taking into account the recommendations of the coaching council. It will review the team’s performance at the European Championship and spare at the Russian Cup final”
https://teamrussia.pro/news/novosti/aleksandr- gorshko .. The
results of the performance of singles on FKR and Euro:
Medvedev, FKR - 222.90 (technique 109.42 + components 111.48)
Tuktamysheva, FKR - 221.19 (technique 113.03 + components 108.16)
Samodurova, Euro - 213.84 (technique 111.69 + components 102.15)
Zagitova, EC - 198.34 (equipment 91.70 + components 106.64)
Who would you like to see in the national team at the World Cup?

So far as of Sunday 10am CST:
Russian Figure Skating
Anonymous poll:

Medvedev, Tuktamyshev, Samodurov · 980
16.32%
Medvedev, Tuktamyshev, Zagitova · 1,349
22.46%
Medvedeva, Samodurov, Zagitova · 1,040
17.32%
Tuktamysheva, Samodurov, Zagitova · 2,636
43.9%
6,005 votes

 

[hippomoomin]

Now since someone have pointed out the difference, their is a also a huge difference in how the Russian public tolerated their "regression" post olympic. I remember Adelina had all the support she needed and no none said anything bad about her.

Brilliant description of how Alinas gold and Adelinas gold were handled internally and externally. It kind of makes you go hmmm. yes I know Adelina's gold was the first ever for Russian women in figure skating and I loved it but Alinas gold was increfible too.

 

[lusterfan]

With Liza and Sofia's world standings at #9 and #10 (after removing the ladies not participating at Worlds), do you think they will have some disadvantage PCS wise for not being in the final group for Worlds?

 

[tothepointe]

What about extra wild card spots for GPF medalists? That would mean Russia would have 5 spots and Japan 4 with Alina, Liza and Rika already qualified. This would only add 3 entries to the total in a fair, merit based way.

No I don't really think that is fair. If it was it is something they should have been doing for years. The US never got such perks when they had a very strong field of skaters. 3 is enough. And when you consider what has happened in the last few years with both the Russian and Japanese teams it's been rare when all 3 of the skaters sent do really well. Extra spots would just cut more nations out of the top 24 and reduce diversity.

 

[tothepointe]

If the competition were truly individual then not only Alina would get a spot, but also Evgenia, Sofia, Liza, Stasya, Masha, plus possibly an equal number of Japanese ladies. Then we would not see a “no child left behind” show, but a truly competitive world championships with all the best skaters from the world. The world champion would be a true world champion.

Now, addressing your question, as we already have a sick and twisted system and we already deal with those idiotic three spots, from the Rusfed point of view it would be beneficial to maybe make some attempt to address yet another problem within the Russian training system itself. A problem that in this particular case is not related to the 3 spot issue we are talking about.

Well does a skater really have a chance of proving herself as being the best in the world if she can't even get into the top 3 in her country? I think at some point being able to get through your domestic competition should mean something.

It has only been in the last few years that not having enough spots at worlds to go around has been a problem. Even this year while there are multiple choices of who to send I don't actually think Russia has anyone capable of taking the win.

 

[oatmella]

They barely held onto 3 spots last Worlds - and now they deserve 5 spots? It’s not going to happen.

Unfortunately I guess there will be some very good skaters who will never make a Worlds or Olympic team.

 

[Manitou]

They barely held onto 3 spots last Worlds - and now they deserve 5 spots?

Who is “they”? You have to list individual skaters. I remind you it’s an individual sport..

Plus, last year was last year and this year we have this year.

 

[oatmella]

Alina(5th) and Maria Sotskova(8th) placed just high enough at last year’s Worlds for the 3 spots at this year’s Worlds. If either placed any lower, there would only be 2 spots.

Last year may have been last year, but spots are earned the previous year. I don’t see that changing.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Three skaters per country limitation is one nonsense for me, but the worst nonsense for me is that Kaetlyn wins spots for Aurora or Larkyn. Those two girls have absolutely no contribution to Kaetlyn’s success, have literally nothing to do with it, and yet, they are going to major events because of Kaetlyn’s hard work and talent.
Those two girls are not qualified, have absolutely no business showing themself to any international audience. How come do they even feel entitled to take advantage of Kaetlyn’s success?
Kaetlyn won the Olympic and WC medals only for herself and is the only one entitled to be taking advantage of it. And literally nobody else.
That’s the most ridiculous rule for me.

I suppose when Kim and Fernandez skated, nobody else from Korea or Spain deserved to compete since they weren't top contenders? The spots are based on criteria and Canada easily won 3 ladies spots. I'm tired of those whining that Russia deserves a dozen spots at Worlds and it's so unfair that Canadian skaters get to compete who aren't as technically sound. Like seriously, thank goodness Russia eked by 3 spots otherwise you'd get the same complaints when Japan had only 2 spots and had to regain while Canada still enjoyed 3. Last time I checked everyone is under the same rules. If a country has a skater who is top 3 and thenext one is ranked 30th, the latter gets to go to Worlds off their success sure but they still have to achieve minimums and whatnot and have to still earn the spot in that sense.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Who is “they”? You have to list individual skaters. I remind you it’s an individual sport..

Plus, last year was last year and this year we have this year.

Yes but this year's placements are based off the previous season's results.

Also if it's an individual sport why even have them have entries criteria, or even a diversity of countries represented? We should just take the top scorers of all season to go to Worlds and leave 2/3 of countries who can't match up at home. Why should Tukt or Med stay at home when they should be taking the spot of some mediocre skate from an obscure European/Asian country? (Sarcasm obvi.)

 

[Skater Boy]

Michelle is still eligible to come back, isn't she? Sorry, the last 30 pages of this thread has driven me bonkers. lmao

Do you mean Maria Butyrskaya???? Michelle is an american and this is about russian ladies. I can't think of a Russian skater named Michelle.

 

[Manitou]

Yes but this year's placements are based off the previous season's results.

Also if it's an individual sport why even have them have entries criteria, or even a diversity of countries represented? We should just take the top scorers of all season to go to Worlds and leave 2/3 of countries who can't match up at home. Why should Tukt or Med stay at home when they should be taking the spot of some mediocre skate from an obscure European/Asian country? (Sarcasm obvi.)

I think you are missing the point of the discussion. I know the rules. It's only an academic discussion. That's why we are all here for.

Anyway, I think there may a compromise. Say, six skaters with current season's top points qualify automatically. No matter what. They are also NOT included in country quotas. They are free agents outside of the system.
Then the rest go under the current existing rules, including country quotas.
For example: three Japanese, two Russians and one American make season's top six leading to WC. So they are going, period. Then, after doing the usual process, we end up with total six Japanese (3+3), five Russians (2+3) , four Americans (1+3) and the rest. I think it's fair. The WC have to swallow six extra skaters, I think they can manage it.

 

[oatmella]

Thought there were already concerns that events were too long - wasn’t that the explanation for men’s FS time being cut.