At what point ISU will start to allow quads in Ladies SP?

[Tolstoj]

17 years ago Miki Ando became the first woman to land a ratified 4 Salchow and it was something new, so much so, we haven't seen other ladies landing quads in competition for a long time.

In the most recent years Alexandra Trusova and Anna Shcherbakova attempted and landed many times 4 Lutz, 4 Sal and 4 Toe in competition, Elizabet Tursynbaeva is also attempting 4 Sal (and very close to land it), and we know other skaters like You Young are working on quads in practice.

Considering how big is the technical advantage if you include these elements, it's a safe assumption we'll see more skaters joining the quad club going forward.

Right now the ladies are still not allowed to jump quads in the short program, at what point do you think ISU will change the rule? 2022 with new rules, sooner because more skaters will land these jumps or later? It's time to place your bets.

We'll use StrawPoll since i don't know how to do it here: it's extremely simple to use, just click on the link and vote, and we can discuss below.

https://www.strawpoll.me/17589256

 

[Mathman]

I voted for #1. (For the 2022-26 cycle.) Everyone else who has voted so far did, too.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I would say next Olympic cycle. They're not commonplace enough for them to institute the rule. Also, if we see that certain skaters (i.e. Eteri's) are the only ones landing quads, those skaters already have a huge advantage in the FS, so events might be a runaway (even moreso) if quads are allowed in the SP. The ISU might want to keep the skaters more grouped together. Not to mention, sexism - the head honchos at the ISU probably don't want to see women starting to score on par or higher than men.

It's ironic - given that the SP is supposed to be the technical program historically, which is when jumping is supposed to be at the forefront. I'm all for just leaving both segments uninhibited.

 

[Mathman]

It's ironic - given that the SP is supposed to be the technical program historically, which is when jumping is supposed to be at the forefront.

I agree. The purposes of the long and short programs have switched. Now it is the SP that has become a "balanced program" featuring the interweaving of various skills, while the LP has become jump, jump, jump.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I don't think any woman has landed a quad as a senior. The ISU should probably wait for that milestone to be achieved before allowing it in the SP.

 

[el henry]

I would love it if senior men had the same rule as junior men: no quads in the SP.

Then we would see more progress in spins, steps, performance, skating, instead of the happy hoo-hah of progress being defined solely as revolutions in a jump.

So no, I don’t think the ladies should be jumping quads in their SPs.

 

[SnowWhite]

Well, there are more junior men who can do quads than ladies (senior or junior), but they cannot do quads in the SP, and Jr men have had quads for a while (of course juniors do have more jump restrictions than seniors). I don't think it'll be that soon for the ladies. Maybe after the next Olympics, if there are a few senior ladies landing some quads during this cycle.

 

[gkelly]

I would expect after there are at least 6-10 ladies at Worlds attempting quads in their freeskates.

 

[TontoK]

I agree. The purposes of the long and short programs have switched. Now it is the SP that has become a "balanced program" featuring the interweaving of various skills, while the LP has become jump, jump, jump.

The SP used to be so tight in the requirements, so that very similar elements could be compared across skaters.

For instance, the 1980 Men's Olympic SP had a requirement that the combo had to include a double loop.

Eventual champion Robin Cousins pushed the the boundary by performing a 2L-3T for his combo, rather than the 2L as the second jump of the combo as most skaters did.

His SP is one of my favorite "oldies." Love the diagonal steps - so effective before the sport became so focused on levels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsCa9xlpMOE

Anyway, my point is that now, the SP resembles a short FP. Might as well give more freedom at this point.

Edit: That was quite the threadjack. Sorry. To answer the question, they should allow it now.

 

[Arbitrary]

I would expect after there are at least 6-10 ladies at Worlds attempting quads in their freeskates.

More important having ladies from three or more countries performing quads at the same tournament.

 

[lzxnl]

More important having ladies from three or more countries performing quads at the same tournament.

Honestly, we already have three countries with women capable of doing quads: Japan, Russia, Kazakhstan. America will follow suit.

 

[theharleyquinn]

Honestly, we already have three countries with women capable of doing quads: Japan, Russia, Kazakhstan. America will follow suit.

I don't know if it's proper to evaluate breadth this way when it's only one person from one of those countries, and two of the three countries with ladies that can do quads are under the same coach.

The federation seems to be steering the ladies to 3A for the short so long as the current rules hold, and considering there's still a lot of growth to be had on that front right now, we may be a cycle or two off from quads.

 

[Mathman]

Eventual champion Robin Cousins pushed the the boundary by performing a 2L-3T for his combo, rather than the 2L as the second jump of the combo as most skaters did.

His SP is one of my favorite "oldies." Love the diagonal steps - so effective before the sport became so focused on levels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsCa9xlpMOE

And he did it all while dressed as a bumblebee!

Now I see where Alexei Yagudin got his famous step sequence in his Winter SP in 2002.

For me, it was the double Axel and the spins!

 

[TontoK]

And he did it all while dressed as a bumblebee!

Now I see where Alexei Yagudin got his famous step sequence in his Winter SP in 2002.

For me, it was the double Axel and the spins!

For sure. That 2A should be in a training video for judges. "When we say good flow from a jump, *this* is what we mean."

 

[DSQ]

And he did it all while dressed as a bumblebee!

Now I see where Alexei Yagudin got his famous step sequence in his Winter SP in 2002.

For me, it was the double Axel and the spins!

The SP used to be so tight in the requirements, so that very similar elements could be compared across skaters.

For instance, the 1980 Men's Olympic SP had a requirement that the combo had to include a double loop.

Eventual champion Robin Cousins pushed the the boundary by performing a 2L-3T for his combo, rather than the 2L as the second jump of the combo as most skaters did.

His SP is one of my favorite "oldies." Love the diagonal steps - so effective before the sport became so focused on levels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsCa9xlpMOE

Anyway, my point is that now, the SP resembles a short FP. Might as well give more freedom at this point.

Edit: That was quite the threadjack. Sorry. To answer the question, they should allow it now.

Robin!

Tbh after seeing the JWC I’m inclined to think perhaps they should ban quads from the SP for men too. However I guess the horse has already bolted on that point. Ultimately I don’t see why girls shouldn’t be able to do something the men can do.

If I could vote I’d vote yes but I cannot vote.

 

[Blades of Passion]

17 years ago Miki Ando became the first woman to land a ratified 4 Salchow

It was cheated, same as the majority of the quad attempts are from the current ladies.

Anna Shcherbakova's quad lutz is "okay" at the moment (overly pre-rotated on the entrance, but landed fully backwards, so can't call it under even though it doesn't look the same as real Quad Lutzes) -- but will she be able to do it when her body grows? A similar question needs to be asked of Alexandra Trusova, who is already only borderline at best on her quad lutz and always cheated on the other quad types.

 

[Tolstoj]

If I could vote I’d vote yes but I cannot vote.

What? Why?

I see votes still coming up in the results so the poll is not closed.

 

[lzxnl]

It was cheated, same as the majority of the quad attempts are from the current ladies.

Anna Shcherbakova's quad lutz is "okay" at the moment (overly pre-rotated on the entrance, but landed fully backwards, so can't call it under even though it doesn't look the same as real Quad Lutzes) -- but will she be able to do it when her body grows? A similar question needs to be asked of Alexandra Trusova, who is already only borderline at best on her quad lutz and always cheated on the other quad types.

In all fairness to Sasha, her 4S was pretty good.

 

[Blades of Passion]

If you mean from Junior Worlds last year, I would have called it under, the cheated takeoff is an issue. She's getting a free pass on her cheated Quad Toeloop takeoffs too, it's even more visibly glaring there. Very annoying and not what the sport should be valuing.

 

[DSQ]

What? Why?

I see votes still coming up in the results so the poll is not closed.

The only reason I knew there was a poll was because people mentioned it. For me it doesn’t show up.