Ladies - Free Program

[Hikaru]

Congratulations to Miki!! she has worked very hard this season, and kept it together skating in her home country. Very well deserved!!!!!

 

[Hikaru]

Miki's stroking's a bit laboured, but her jumps have always been terrific. I think Morozov really helped her to express herself better in her skating.
Kimmie's jumping has never been quite as good, nor does she really have the passion that Miki has now.

Yes, I think Miki is more expressive and now is feeling the music much more than Kimmie. I wouldn't think of Miki as "not musical", but I agree she is not so flexible.

 

[iloveaxel]

I doubt it too. I think you'll see her leave Joanne Mcleod again. She definitley needs an attitude adjustment. She needs to take a lesson from Jennifer Robinson. When she finished in the bottom of the pack, she didn't blame the judges and she didn't blame her coaches. She realized what she needed to do to improve and she worked her *ss off to do it. She recognized the value in self-reflection. Mira's problem is that she thinks she's better than she is. She's got a lot of work to do - stronger jumps, better stroking technique (no "bobbing"), and a new stylist who will get rid of those bangs! The question is, will she listen to anyone? Perhaps she should go and work with Doug Leigh, who helped Jen Robinson improve so much - or maybe she should go and train in the States where the standard of skating is much higher than where she has been training. Brian Orser seems to have done great things with Yu-Na, although I wouldn't wish Mira on Brian! He's too nice to deal with a strong-headed student!

I am not sure if Yu-Na deserved to be ahead of Kimmie in free skate. She had two falls, and Kimmie had none.

 

[lutzskate]

I am not sure if Yu-Na deserved to be ahead of Kimmie in free skate. She had two falls, and Kimmie had none.

I think you quoted the wrong post. I didn't discuss Kimme or Yu-Na in that post.

 

[katymay]

I think the best hope for U.S. skating is another japanese skater-japanese american-Mirai Nagasu- I would say Zhang ,but while she has terrific flexability I'm not sure she will be able to land a triple lutz. And this years' panal of judges seemed to crack down on substandard technique. (i.e. flutzing)

Never count out Emily-with some ballet training and work on skating skills she will be back I am sure. She is a smart kid with an amazing work ethic and I can't see her ever just giving up. She will improve what needs to be improved to the best of her ability.

Once Kimmie adjusts to her new body she too will be back better then ever.
Kimmie does need to finish off elements and not rush her program-she has sloppy moments that drop her level way below the elegance of YuNa and Asada.

 

[Hannah's Dad]

I am not sure if Yu-Na deserved to be ahead of Kimmie in free skate. She had two falls, and Kimmie had none.

That's the big problem with international sports that involve judging. The judges tend to favor the competitors in their own country or region. Kimmie is a world-class skater and if she continues to train, she will score wins in other tournaments.

 

[ManyCairns]

woow, protocols are up, one judge gave Asada +3 on her 3A...:scratch: actually the same judge gave positive GOE on all her elements except for the first combo.. and two 8,75.. I mean she skated great, but that great?

+3 GOE for a two-footed jump?? Is that right, both that score and that it was 2-footed?

Can't wait to see the performances. I do think Kimmie and her team have the ability to identify what she has to work on, and she does exactly that, and works hard, too. I hope these results just make her want it more, not turn her off from skating. I was impressed at how she improved her SP for this competition, and I have been (I guess in the minority) one who has enjoyed her LP this year, too -- thought she skated it well at Nationals.

And, agreed, Flying Camel, I'm ready for some new US skaters. Emily and Alyssa do bring a nice quality to their performances -- E. is enthusiastic and A. is elegant -- but they don't seem to have the goods to get the job done.

Again, can't wait to see the performances, esp Yu-Na and Asada and Rochette's LP. And maybe this time Ando will reach me, it seems from the comments that she really gave a good performance.

Thanks once more for all your hard work, Rosaleen.

 

[bekalc]

I am not sure if Yu-Na deserved to be ahead of Kimmie in free skate. She had two falls, and Kimmie had none.

Yu-na wasn't placed ahead of kimmie in the free. But Kimmie had two major mistakes herself. The major hand down cost her two points. And Kimmie's triple/triple was downgraded as well. Costing her GOE points and base value points.

Yu-na had a 7 point lead over Kimmie going into the free, Kimmie's performance wasn't enough to over come that.

 

[mizu_iro]

I am not sure if Yu-Na deserved to be ahead of Kimmie in free skate. She had two falls, and Kimmie had none.

Yu-Na's GOE's made up for her falls- she actually got HIGHER than her base mark (if you disregard the 3S-2T that didn't count) despite the falls. Kimmie got lower than her base value - her GOEs were close to zero except for the touch down and underrotation, which got the mandatory deductions. So despite the fact that Kimmie stayed upright, her final TES was less than 2 points ahead of Yu-Na's, and that gap was made up in the PCS (which Yu-Na got second on, deservedly).

 

[Sackie]

Poor Joannie. The 3rd best Tes marks but held down again in the PCS marks. If she had received the PCS she deserves in both the short and long she would have been 6th or 7th overall. Why would the judges have to give lower PCS marks to skaters who skate early? I know they had to leave room with the old 6.0 system but they don't have to worry about that with the new system.

 

[flying camel]

I could be wrong but I just don't think ballet will help Emily. I think Kimmie and her coach need to make some serious changes. Kimmie should try to take some jazz dance classes, or acting classes. She seems to hold back her emotion. They also need to drop Lori Nichols as choreographer. That short program stunk. I just felt all season it was the wrong music for Kimmie. She needed something more uplifting. If you have a skater that has a hard time expressing herself why would you pick that drab music. Also she really needs to improve some of her positions. Usually are top girls have the best laybacks and the best spirals. None of that for Kimmie. Is that a coach or choreography problem? Somebody is to blame. She also needs a better seamstress. This is the big time.

I am happy for the girls who won. I know they are better then Kimmie mostly everywhere but the 4th place finish is a hard pill to swallow.

One other issue, why do the Americans have so many technique problems? Were they always there? Is it the COP that is showing are weakness? All these down graded jumps should not be happening. We have had all the world champions & Olympic champions in the world. Why is our techniqe being judged so badly? If you have 5 triples planned and half of them are downgraded, you should have just stayed home.

The USFSA needs to hold some clinics and seminars on proper technique and the COP. That could ony help the situation. That's my 2 cents. Sorry for the rant, I'm sad! :disapp:

 

[csmith1]

Totally agree ... Nichols program for Kimmie was lifeless, and her program for Carolina was even worse ... horrible music and very little else to recommend it, even if it had been well skated technically I don't think it suited her style and may in fact have slowed her down too much.

 

[lutzskate]

??????

One judge gave Joannie a 7.25 for Interpretation, while another gave her a 4.75! That's a HUGE difference! This is why the judges' identity should not be hidden. There should be a review panel. I know this is not the only judging discrepancy.

 

[gsrossano]

+3 GOE for a two-footed jump?? Is that right, both that score and that it was 2-footed?

That judge also gave Miki her highest marks, and Yukari her highest marks. AND that judge gave Kimmie her lowest marks.

My guess that's the Japanese judge.

One judge gave Joannie a 7.25 for Interpretation, while another gave her a 4.75! That's a HUGE difference! This is why the judges' identity should not be hidden. There should be a review panel. I know this is not the only judging discrepancy.

The high mark comes from a judge who scored Joanne significantly higher than the rest of the panel. I generally assume when one judge scores a skater clearly higher than the rest of the panel, and there is a judge form the skater's country on the panel, it is national bias. Can't prove it though cause we don't know whose marks are whose due to the secrecy.

 

[berryblast]

Usually just a lurker here, but I had to contribute to say YAY for Miki! She's my favorite of the ladies, and I'm SO happy for her.

Also congrats to Yu-Na and Mao for a great short and free, respectively, and Yukari for a great competition. It was a great ladies event. :thumbsup:

And, I had a question out of curiosity that I was thinking about... is this the first time that an event has had two record-breaking performances and neither one of them won the gold?

 

[Hsuhs]

But don't they prevent score biases by excluding the lowest and the highest mark, per element? It's always a trimmed mean.

 

[shawntooth]

i don't understand why the 4th place is soooo hard for kimmie fans to swallow since you already know she's not as good as the other 3 girls in all senses.......right she didn't fall or anything, but look at the slow motion of that 3flip-3toe, it should seriously be downgraded to a 2-2, as well as her other jumps were short of rotation........the spins didn't finish the absolute turns on different variations which won't consititute a higher level........I guess I don't even have to mention that her postures on ice are simply ugly, would you look at the spirals, layback spins, and even the turning camel entrance into the sit spins........

Both she and her fans should've been happy that her PCS were held up within the top flat which she doesn't really deserve......neither her face or body were even trying to interpretate the music. and an over 7.7 skating skills? gimme a break!

 

[gsrossano]

But don't they prevent score biases by excluding the lowest and the highest mark, per element? It's always a trimmed mean.

Sort of (any maybe the Japanese judge or the Canadian judge were not even included in the scoring due to the secret random selection of 9 of the 12). But, even with the trimmed mean, it pays to over-score your own skater.

For example, using Joannie's Interp marks, if judge 1 had given the "right" mark of 6.25 or 6.50 (right meaning more or less the panel average) then the 6.75 from judge 5 is dropped. By over-scoring, the 7.25 gets dropped, and the 6.75 now counts, bringing up the panel average slightly. Do that five times and you can bring up the skater's score by 0.1-0.2 points. Not a lot, but every little bit helps your skater.

 

[Hsuhs]

For example, using Joannie's Interp marks, if judge 1 had given the "right" mark of 6.25 or 6.50 (right meaning more or less the panel average) then the 6.75 from judge 5 is dropped. By over-scoring, the 7.25 gets dropped, and the 6.75 now counts, bringing up the panel average slightly. Do that five times and you can bring up the skaters score by 0.1-0.2 points. Not a lot, but every little bit helps your skater.

Yes, it's easier to manipulate the PCSs.

 

[flying camel]

Joannie & Kimmie are actually very similiar to me. Sometimes in their performance they just look stiff in the upper body. So, it may not be noticeable to some judges, but for another judge that's where they take their deduction.