2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[RingOfEndlessLight]

Neither of this season's programs for Alina worked as well as the Olympic season programs, in my opinion (DQ was an absolute firecracker of a program and fit Alina like a glove), but I am happy that she triumphed at a very redemptive 2019 World Championship with them. Obviously, winning must have felt great, and also I'm sure it puts her on a much more even keel, going into the 2019-2020 season. She might not win the WC again next year -- tomorrow is tomorrow and next year is next year -- but who knows? POTO and Carmen came on quite a roller-coaster ride with her this year yet ultimately won a huge prize.

 

[lopsilceci]

Interesting that Daniil mentioned that he will never do programs for other ladies and men. He will only do programs for Pair skaters and Ice dancers if they ask him.
I think a part of developing as a choreographer is to work with different skaters all over the world, not only so that skaters learn from choreographers, but also choreographers learn from skaters. Tom Dickson and David Wilson are great examples for that, they work with skaters all over the world, not just the skaters from their rink.

Daniil has several of the world's top skaters (junior and senior) right at his workplace and the expectations for those particular skaters and their programs are the highest... Why would he even bother with other skaters? He already has enough on his plate, I think.

 

[andromache]

I totally disagree. Alina is a much more versatile artist than Alena.

Interesting....I think of Alina as more of a "performer" type - executes the choreography very well, good expression, great timing on elements, etc. I think this is why DQ was such a great program for her. But I think of Alena as more of an "artist" type - excels at more "sensitive" music and really embodies the emotion she is expressing + makes the audience feel that emotion as well.

As for who is more versatile? I'm not sure. So far, both of them have been given programs/music/themes that suit their strengths and aren't SUPER out of the box for them as skaters. Will be interesting to see them go head to head this season - as well as Trusova and Shcherbakova, of course.

 

[Finley]

Neither of this season's programs for Alina worked as well as the Olympic season programs, in my opinion (DQ was an absolute firecracker of a program and fit Alina like a glove), but I am happy that she triumphed at a very redemptive 2019 World Championship with them. Obviously, winning must have felt great, and also I'm sure it puts her on a much more even keel, going into the 2019-2020 season. She might not win the WC again next year -- tomorrow is tomorrow and next year is next year -- but who knows? POTO and Carmen came on quite a roller-coaster ride with her this year yet ultimately won a huge prize.

I love your username.

Trying to top DQ was really an impossible task. No program had ever been skated like that before and because of the rule change no program ever will be again. But as Alina's choreographer Daniil has got to believe in what he is doing 100% and give it everything he has to try and keep her progressing on an upward trajectory as an artist, a performer, and an athlete.

 

[VenusHalley]

I love your username.

Trying to top DQ was really an impossible task. No program had ever been skated like that before and because of the rule change no program ever will be again. But as Alina's choreographer Daniil has got to believe in what he is doing 100% and give it everything he has to try and keep her progressing on an upward trajectory as an artist, a performer, and an athlete.

well if someone really wants to do it... they are free to backload.

I am not mad about the rule change... first time it was something WOW, but it would become tired very soon. I often wonder if Alina's meltdown at world's contributed to the rule change. Seeing backloading go horribly wrong... it could contribute to "never again" thinking.

(for me before the worlds I would probably just be in favor reflecting backloaded programs that made no sense on PCS.... but when I saw her at world's I kept thinking that if her jumps were distributred throughout the program, she could save the performance... it was a kind of program that you really do greatly or fail horribly as there was no time to recover mentally).

And I remember showing the Olympic program to my mom, who watched figure skating since Hana Mašková, with bit of break in the 2010s. She gushed over it, saying the costume looked like "cute little poppy flower" and being awed of "those triple jumps! she jumps like it was nothing!".

Maybe it was just too hard to top that program. But I like the Carmen dress more. I would wear something inspired by it when going out to party.

 

[voolfee]

As for who is more versatile? I'm not sure. So far, both of them have been given programs/music/themes that suit their strengths and aren't SUPER out of the box for them as skaters. Will be interesting to see them go head to head this season - as well as Trusova and Shcherbakova, of course.

I think that Alina is the most versatile artist among all ladies. She has all the programs with different emotional rendition. In some programs she needs to rendering even a few different emotions. I'm really curious to look at her new EX, this is another different style for her. :agree:

 

[Finley]

well if someone really wants to do it... they are free to backload.

I am not mad about the rule change... first time it was something WOW, but it would become tired very soon. I often wonder if Alina's meltdown at world's contributed to the rule change. Seeing backloading go horribly wrong... it could contribute to "never again" thinking.

(for me before the worlds I would probably just be in favor reflecting backloaded programs that made no sense on PCS.... but when I saw her at world's I kept thinking that if her jumps were distributred throughout the program, she could save the performance... it was a kind of program that you really do greatly or fail horribly as there was no time to recover mentally).

And I remember showing the Olympic program to my mom, who watched figure skating since Hana Mašková, with bit of break in the 2010s. She gushed over it, saying the costume looked like "cute little poppy flower" and being awed of "those triple jumps! she jumps like it was nothing!".

Maybe it was just too hard to top that program. But I like the Carmen dress more. I would wear something inspired by it when going out to party.

We almost agree on something! I like the Carmen dress more too!

Backloading that program was a gutsy thing to do. Yes, if her jumps had been more evenly spread out she possibly could have saved the program in Milan, BUT, that backloaded program gave her the point advantage needed to win the Olympic Gold Medal. It's a knife that cuts both ways. If you blow it, you don't even get a bronze.

Carmen was an incredibly difficult program. I remember one of the announcers at one of her early competitions saying the RusFed had asked Eteri to simplify the program when Alina struggled with it at the Test Skates. When Alina couldn't successfully execute Carmen she ended up second (or worse) but when she pulled it off clean she won World's. She needed every bit of that difficulty to compete with the other top senior ladies. As hard as it was, as a fan, to watch her struggle, it was beyond worth it to watch it all work out for her in the end!

Those struggles were a part of that victory. Playing it safe wouldn't have worked.

 

[Happy Skates]

I personally don't get all of the hullaballoo over this quote from Daniil. He said that it was his goal to make these programs the best of their kinds, and what is wrong with having ambitious goals? In fact, he is working with the Olympic champion; He should aim to make her programs the best of all time. Whether he succeeded or not is an opinion and doesn't matter, but it isn't bad that he tried. But I guess some people will take every opportunity to trash those programs. And for the part where he said he knew Alina could do them better than anyone before, I don't think its bad to have confidence in your student. Again, whether he is right is a matter of opinion, but part of the job of a coach is to advocate for your student in the media. You see other coaches of champions talking about how their students are so good, so I don't see what the problem is with Daniil saying this about Alina.

 

[Claudalie]

As far as ballet choreo in FG goes, Alina's 2018 programs were both phenomenal and the best in my opinion. Her 2019 SP and FS lacked something for me. Nevertheless both were beautiful programs. The only other Carmen that everyone remembers is Witt's Carmen, which does not deserve so much praise in my HO. Swan Lake by Baiul was a train wreck for me, so can't argue about taste.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

I’m just really curious, how did Medvedeva do as a novice skater? Was she a star?

 

[Lunalovesskating]

I’m just really curious, how did Medvedeva do as a novice skater? Was she a star?

Silver at Cup of Russia Final 2012
6th Place at Junior RusNats 2012
Gold at Cup of Russia Stage 5 in 2013
4th at the Junior RusNats in 2013
Gold at Cup of Russia Stage II in 2014
Silver at Cup of Russia Final 2014
7th at Russian Nationals 2014
4th Junior Russian Nationals 2014
Bronze at Junior World's in 2014
Bronze at Russian Nationals 2015
Gold at Junior Russian Nationals 2015
Gold at Junior World's in 2015

I think she had a fairly good career as a novice and then junior. Elena Radionova was dominating at times, as well as Maria Sotskova and Serafima Sakhanovich. It was always rotating between those 4.

 

[monochrom3]

We almost agree on something! I like the Carmen dress more too!

Backloading that program was a gutsy thing to do. Yes, if her jumps had been more evenly spread out she possibly could have saved the program in Milan, BUT, that backloaded program gave her the point advantage needed to win the Olympic Gold Medal. It's a knife that cuts both ways. If you blow it, you don't even get a bronze.

Carmen was an incredibly difficult program. I remember one of the announcers at one of her early competitions saying the RusFed had asked Eteri to simplify the program when Alina struggled with it at the Test Skates. When Alina couldn't successfully execute Carmen she ended up second (or worse) but when she pulled it off clean she won World's. She needed every bit of that difficulty to compete with the other top senior ladies. As hard as it was, as a fan, to watch her struggle, it was beyond worth it to watch it all work out for her in the end!

Those struggles were a part of that victory. Playing it safe wouldn't have worked.

Just to add on, the program was really more difficult than her backloaded one; I remember one of the commentators at one if her events pointing out the difficulty of doing both a Lutz Loop and Lutz Toe in the same program. This is mainly because of how you’re doing the same jump, and then a different jump? I’m not too sure on the specifics but it apparently has to do with the take off on the second jump being different. There’s a reason why we don’t see more skaters putting both these jumps in the same program. The only other skater who has tried it is Bradie Tennell. And in the end she didn’t suceed with it and had to give up that layout in favor of two Lutz Toes. And then there is the inherent difficulty of the Lz Loop to reckon with as well. The crazy difficult entry into the 2A I’ve only ever seen Hanyu use, charlotte backcounter into the jump — you see what could have gone wrong at Worlds also when she was off axis (luckily it didn’t happen).

Hate or love their programs that’s personal preference at the end of the day and everyone is free to agree to disagree, but no one can claim that team Tutberidze doesn’t make the best possible program for each skater, that optimises both skill and scores.

 

[nussnacker]

I personally don't get all of the hullaballoo over this quote from Daniil. He said that it was his goal to make these programs the best of their kinds, and what is wrong with having ambitious goals? In fact, he is working with the Olympic champion; He should aim to make her programs the best of all time. Whether he succeeded or not is an opinion and doesn't matter, but it isn't bad that he tried. But I guess some people will take every opportunity to trash those programs. And for the part where he said he knew Alina could do them better than anyone before, I don't think its bad to have confidence in your student. Again, whether he is right is a matter of opinion, but part of the job of a coach is to advocate for your student in the media. You see other coaches of champions talking about how their students are so good, so I don't see what the problem is with Daniil saying this about Alina.

It really doesn’t matter what Daniil has to say. People will rip things out of context and see what they want to see.
If someone wants to hate someone, they’ll find a way to do that.
What did you guys expect him to say in an interview? “My students have no talent” and “my goal is to make mediocre programs”?
Jeez

When Erokhov gave his interview where he said that all girls eat well and all those memes and jokes about them starving truly bother and infuriate him, no one would pay attention to that interview. Because it doesn’t fit the narrative of the character they have portrayed in their heads and isn’t nearly as juicy or scandalous.
Oh, also, him saying that coaches always prevent them from overtraining, always restrict the number of the jumps they are allowed to jump per training isn’t nearly as fun to pay attention to it

But if there was any chance to trash that team with his interview, people would be discussing it for weeks.

I’m kinda glad that Elizabeth has moved to Eteri after turning 18, and people accepted that she’s naturally petite. Had Elizabeth stayed with her the whole time, oh Eteri would’ve been ripped apart

 

[LiamForeman]

(for me before the worlds I would probably just be in favor reflecting backloaded programs that made no sense on PCS.... but when I saw her at world's I kept thinking that if her jumps were distributred throughout the program, she could save the performance... it was a kind of program that you really do greatly or fail horribly as there was no time to recover mentally).

I haven't rewatched that program ever. And you are right, you have to be extremely mentally tough to blow your first jump in the back half and brush it aside and then land 6 more triples. Another awful case was Tessa Hong, who was a very strong Tom Z student and one to watch in the future. Her last performance at USN was an even bigger backloaded fail. She never competed again. But, I agree with you, the backloading could be considered when giving the PCS. I am glad they have the new rules.

 

[silveruskate]

My excitement for Alina's programs are definitely building. I can't wait to find out what they are! Hoping for a very mature and elegant program, trying a little more subtle music in her SP hopefully.

Her programs this season were technically brilliant although not my favourites, POTO definitely is even now still growing on me more and more. It cannot compare to Swan Lake and DQ though. About her skating skills, and interpretation of music I would say that Alina is more technical with how she competes the programs knowing all of the elements she needs to hit (which are a tremendous amount).

https://youtu.be/HBceR3oaCuc

I was completely blown away by this Swan Lake performance in an exhibition and it's the best I have ever seen her skate, the look-style and interpretation were soso impressive and as good as I've seen from any skater. So interesting to compare this to her Competitive Swan Lake performances and see the difference. Hoping for more like this!

EDIT: It actually looks like the music is supposed to be POTO but someone put Swan Lake on top...goes so well I didn't notice.

 

[esteticlove]

Recycling a warhorse is not that bad and I could accept the ambition to make the best of it. However, this attitude left me bitter when they gave Kostornaya R&G, just 2 seasons after Gubanova's magnificent interpretation and choreography on the same music. Even their dresses were similar. Yes, R&G is very common in figure skating, but they definitely tried to top Gubanova's program from that time, and in my opinion, they failed. It's too bad when the ambition to overshine someone else gets over the ambition to bring out the best from your own student.

 

[Happy Skates]

I haven't rewatched that program ever. And you are right, you have to be extremely mentally tough to blow your first jump in the back half and brush it aside and then land 6 more triples. Another awful case was Tessa Hong, who was a very strong Tom Z student and one to watch in the future. Her last performance at USN was an even bigger backloaded fail. She never competed again. But, I agree with you, the backloading could be considered when giving the PCS. I am glad they have the new rules.

I know this is an old issue that doesn't matter anymore because of the rule change, but does anyone else disagree that backloading itself should've been considered in PCS? In my opinion, this whole "balanced program" issue is nothing more than semantics. If you go watch the ballet, I guarantee they aren't going to have all of the leaps and jumps perfectly balanced throughout the program for balance's sake (thanos much?). So why does it have to be that way in figure skating? In both of Alina's programs, the jumps were where the music dictated them to be. No jumps in the beginning matched the slower, more relaxed section (and I personally thought her choreo and step sequences were wonderful and entertaining), while the rapid jumping perfectly fit the music at the end. I would go so far as to say some other, "more balanced" programs with jumping at the beginning were putting jumps in unnatural spots in the music just so they could have jumps at the beginning. If the judges didn't like the choreography itself, thats a different story, but backloading itself should not affect PCS imo. I also thought it was a bit hypocritcal when people would say that Alina was "all about the jumps" but then would complain when the first part of the program only had (wonderful) spins, choreo, and steps. That being said, I do agree with the rule change, as not all pieces of music are suited towards backloading.

 

[Happy Skates]

Recycling a warhorse is not that bad and I could accept the ambition to make the best of it. However, this attitude left me bitter when they gave Kostornaya R&G, just 2 seasons after Gubanova's magnificent interpretation and choreography on the same music. Even their dresses were similar. Yes, R&G is very common in figure skating, but they definitely tried to top Gubanova's program from that time, and in my opinion, they failed. It's too bad when the ambition to overshine someone else gets over the ambition to bring out the best from your own student.

Are you seriously trying to say that they were trying to top Gubanova's Romeo and Juliet program? I loved that program, but she was not the first and certainly not the last to do it.... Yulia did it before Gubanova and won Jworlds with it, was Gubanova copying Yulia? You have no evidence they were trying to top Gubanova's, and this is extremely improbably given the sheer number of people to skate to it. And that coaching team gives students warhorses a lot... why does this one have to do with Guvanova?

 

[lopsilceci]

well if someone really wants to do it... they are free to backload.

I am not mad about the rule change... first time it was something WOW, but it would become tired very soon. I often wonder if Alina's meltdown at world's contributed to the rule change. Seeing backloading go horribly wrong... it could contribute to "never again" thinking.

I think if other skaters COULD have done it (backloading), they would have...

It makes more sense to think that the ISU saw a "loophole" in their judging system and realized that it could be used to a skater's advantage (Alina could do it, so she did it justly), so they changed the rule to make the competition more even for other skaters

 

[esteticlove]

Are you seriously trying to say that they were trying to top Gubanova's Romeo and Juliet program? I loved that program, but she was not the first and certainly not the last to do it.... Yulia did it before Gubanova and won Jworlds with it, was Gubanova copying Yulia? You have no evidence they were trying to top Gubanova's, and this is extremely improbably given the sheer number of people to skate to it. And that coaching team gives students warhorses a lot... why does this one have to do with Guvanova?

But if you compare those 3 programs, which 2 share the most common things except for the music?