Should We Give Weir and Sandhu One More Chance?
- Thread starter Joesitz (RIP)
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Thank you for saying that so directly, Jaana!! I FINALLY understand what you have been saying all this time. Of course, it is not important to YOU who wins U.S. Nationals, any more than it is important to the average U.S. skating fan who wins the national championship of Finland. That's just common sense.
But it is important to the competitors.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
About "opinions," I think there is a difference between an opinion and a prediction.
My opinion: Lambiel's spins are better than Takahashi's. Weir is an expressive and artistic skater.
My prediction: Lambiel will win worlds next year, with Takahashi second. Weir will finish in the bottom half of the top ten.
But the funny thing about predictions is this. OK, so I was right. So what?
OK, so I was wrong. So what?
My opinion: Lambiel's spins are better than Takahashi's. Weir is an expressive and artistic skater.
My prediction: Lambiel will win worlds next year, with Takahashi second. Weir will finish in the bottom half of the top ten.
But the funny thing about predictions is this. OK, so I was right. So what?
OK, so I was wrong. So what?
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2006
I acknowledge Sandhu's amazing abilities in skating, but I was never his fan, and never will be. I love Johnny Weir's pure, fluid, naturally beautiful, inspirational, ... skating. I love to watch him even if he doesn't do any jumps. How could I not give him chances? I am waiting for the glorious moment of him regaining his US National title next year. Yes, sometimes, I am frustrated. Sometimes, I am impatient. But no matter where he finish in a competition, as long as he skates, I will enjoy watching him.
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- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
My turn now then.
My opinion: Lambiel has been held back his entire junior and senior career by the biased judges and has to work that much harder then others for anything he has ever gotten in the sport. Joubert has little in the way of redeeming qualties to his skating outside of his jumps. Atleast Plushenko had incredable footwork, basic skating, command and presence on the ice. Plushenko's scores his 2 seasons under current COP were purposely put through the roof to shut other contenders, and while as it was he deserved all his titles last season, the purpose escalation of his scores was not right. Weir may never beat Lysacek again. Sandhu will never beat Buttle again. Lysacek may never beat Lambiel again. Takahashi and Oda will both beat out many times in the future.
My prediction: Plushenko will win next years Worlds. Lambiel will win silver. I dont know who will bronze but it will be none of Lysacek, Takahashi, or Joubert. Asada and Kim will divide the next 4 World or Olympic titles between them, each winning 2. The pairs podium at the next 4 World or Olympic events will have 2 Chinese and 1 German pair, no predicted order on my part, just predicting that composition of each podium in some manner. I have no idea what will happen in the dance, but I do predict the Kerrs will never win Worlds, and neither will Gregory/Petuhkov.
Oh yeah Mira Leung will never win Worlds either.- Joined
- Mar 30, 2006
I agree with Mathman. The topic of this thread is so pointless.
The skaters give themselves the chance. The audience simply watches. How to pretentious to suggest otherwise.
~Z
The skaters give themselves the chance. The audience simply watches. How to pretentious to suggest otherwise.
~Z
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
Maybe what the thread title implies though will the people who do have determining of the fate of these skaters-such as their federations, the judges, keep giving them chances?
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2006
Again, the "chances" their federation gives them is based on how well they skate.
~Z
~Z
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
I highly doubt it is that simple. With only 2 spots for Canadian men next year the direction the CSA feels they want to go in definitely comes into play. In the past Sandhu has gone into events ensured of a spot on the team. With only 2 spots, Mabee beating him 3 times in a row, and younger skaters coming up behind them, that does not neccessarily have to be the case any longer. If the CSA would not mind seeing the younger skaters continuing to get chances as opposed to still continuing to give Sandhu a spot, that is definitely a factor in his making the team or not.
The CSA also has a say in how much funding they award to Sandhu, or whether to cut his funding and give more of it to developing skaters or people like Mabee and Sawyer instead. He has relied heavily in the past on top level funding from the CSA, whether he continues to get that or not remains to be the same, but I am guessing he sees it cut drasticaly this year if he does choose to continue. The CSA certainly has alot of say in whether they want to bother giving Sandhu the same support and opportunity he had before, or whether to move on and give more of it to others.
Although I agree to an extent that this topic a bit pointless and pompous (and probably just using the "royal We"), I don't agree with this completely. After all, both Russian champions in single's this year weren't sent to Worlds. Consistancy does mean something, not just skating the best at that qualifying event.
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2006
If Sandhu is in the top 2 at his Nationals next year, he will go to Worlds. Ditto for Weir being in the top 3. If either of them WIN that title, they will obviously gain additional support.
That's really all there is to it?
~Z
That's really all there is to it?
~Z
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2006
How are you cerain of Sandhu being sent to Worlds if he is in the top 2 at the Canadian Nationals of Figure Skating? As Kasey refered to the assignements to Worlds for the Russian Figure Skating team were not based solely on the results of the National Championships of Figure Skating for Russia. If Sandhu continues to be defeated by Christopher in international events next season as he was to end this season, it is quite likely the choice would be made to send Christopher to Worlds regardless if Sandhu defeats him at Nationals or not. It is also possible in that case the judges will be "informed" that it is prefered for Jeff and Christopher to be the top 2 finishers at Nationals.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Weir, however, is in a different situation. Even though Ryan Bradley skated great to win silver at U.S. Nationals, still Lysacek and Weir are quite a bit ahead of the next tier of U.S. men such as Jeremy Abbott and Stephen Carriere.
USFS, by the way, takes great pride in not playing games with decisions such as determining team envelopes and choosing skaters for the world team. You place at nationals, you go to worlds. Two years ago defending champions Orsher and Lucash were a stronger team than Hinzmann and Parchem, but a bad free skate dropped O&L to third at 2006 Nationals, and H&P went to the Olympics and Worlds.
USFS, by the way, takes great pride in not playing games with decisions such as determining team envelopes and choosing skaters for the world team. You place at nationals, you go to worlds. Two years ago defending champions Orsher and Lucash were a stronger team than Hinzmann and Parchem, but a bad free skate dropped O&L to third at 2006 Nationals, and H&P went to the Olympics and Worlds.
It's a valid question from a respected and long-term board member, If you don't like the thread, don't post.
I am sure they are both on pins and needles in anticipation of your majesty's decision on this issue.
What a ridiculous premise...
I think the issue about Weir is whether he wants to give competiion any more chances. He didn't seem to enjoy himself at all this year, and it must be very difficult for him to "be himself" with the press on his back. If Weir wants to "give it another go", then his skating will take care of the rest.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2006
I'd like to see the USFSA drop Johnny and then laugh while their tv ratings drop right along with him. To quote someone, not sure who said it..." figure skating would be so boring with-out Johnny Weir," and IMO it would be. There are A LOT of people out there that watch and follow skating mainly for him. Maybe not on this board and maybe none of you but, trust me there are lots of people that are only interested in him and there are lots of people that started watching the sport solely based on interest in him. I don't think it will hurt him to lose a few lukewarm fans when he has legions of them all across the globe that adore him no matter where he places.
Having said that, does he drive me crazy and frustrate me? You bet he does but, IMO he's way more talented than Lysacek (hell than any of them) if he really wanted to beat them he could. Perhaps that's why I find him so frustrating. I don't think Lysacek won nationals...I think Johnny let him win. He could have wiped the floor with him if he wanted but, he through it away.
Having said that, does he drive me crazy and frustrate me? You bet he does but, IMO he's way more talented than Lysacek (hell than any of them) if he really wanted to beat them he could. Perhaps that's why I find him so frustrating. I don't think Lysacek won nationals...I think Johnny let him win. He could have wiped the floor with him if he wanted but, he through it away.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2006
Probably true however remember the judges were willing to drop Weir to 3rd place below Bradley at this years Nationals when they did not absolutely have to given the skates. The skates were such it was probably the fair decision but they certainly did not have to go that way. They certainly did not have to give Bradley or any U.S skater more then a mid-60s score in the short when none were getting higher then that internationaly to that point in the season. They chose to give Bradley a 74 and keep him close, not wrong, but they certainly did not have to do that. Then in the free skate they could have easily held Weir in second with his PCS, they in no way had to give Bradley almost exactly the same PCS yet chose to do so. That makes me wonder that perhaps Weir is not in such a secure position as far as his spot.
This could be viewed as a good example, and might well be one, however I do not take that view on your particular example nonetheless. The pairs event is an event the United States of America went into the Olympics of Turin without the faintest chances of a medal. Furthermore Inoue/Baldwin had by far the highest placing potential of any American team, they are inconsistent enough there was still even a slight possibility for them to finish below another U.S pair in Turin, or even below another one for the U.S Nationals title as had happened the previous year, but there highest potential placing was by far the most of any U.S pair and even they had not the faintest hopes of a medal there. So why would the willingness to determine the 2nd spot for the U.S Olympic team in pairs, as it happened the team of arguably less stature of the two, be that meaningful a demonstration of the completely even playing field at U.S Nationals in all cases.
How would that demonstrate accurately that there is not a prior edge to certain competitors, or a known preference of the desired team, or certain security to individuals while others lose security they once had in events where the U.S places some more hopes on?
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Well, you might be right, but I don't take such a devious view. I think Bradley was placed ahead of Weir because he skated better (the performance of his life), not because of a sinister plot to dis Johnny. Same with the pairs. Same with Mirai Nagasu 
finishing ahead of the next annointed one, Caroline Zhang.
Scores at Nationals are always somewhat inflated across the board, just on general principles. You don't want to send your champions off to worlds with the message, these guys are crap, but it's all we've got.
finishing ahead of the next annointed one, Caroline Zhang. Scores at Nationals are always somewhat inflated across the board, just on general principles. You don't want to send your champions off to worlds with the message, these guys are crap, but it's all we've got.
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- Joined
- Feb 17, 2006
In a completely fair world that may have been true. However I do believe the US Skating Assocation was ready for a new National Champion, and while Evan still had to skate, and they would not ignore a great skate by Johnny and a flawed enough performance by Lysacek, this years Nationals was always Evan's to lose. Are you forgetting Evan Lysacek was awarded a proposterous 169.89 directly before Weir skated? There was going to be no floor wiping with Mr. Lysacek that night regardless of any preference individuals such as ourselves may have for Weir's skating.
As for the loss of Weir to amateur skating impacting TV ratings and interest? Not much in a global sense I believe. European viewers already have Lambiel, Plushenko, Joubert, who are all bigger names with more impressive resumes then Weir, and big popularity in that part of the World anyway. Asia has Oda and Takahashi to spark their interest as is. Canada has Buttle, Mabee emerging, and up and coming Chan who gains alot of hype.
However the loss of Weir would be damaging to popularity of skating in the U.S. I am not entirely certain why Americans are pushing Lysacek to be their now golden boy so hard, and discouraging the more talented Johnny Weir in the process. As much as they love his "I am so macho" image Mr. Evan Lysacek does not have the talent or skills to succeed at the World level vs the likes of Plushenko, Lambiel, Joubert, and the Japanese on his own accord. He is at the mercy of such individuals to provide assistance towards him to gain desired success. No amount of proposterous scores dished out at U.S Nationals, and false potrayals of abilities and skills of Mr. Lysacek by the U.S marketing machine will change that reality, and the sooner they realize it the better. Somebody like Weir properly nurtured and given the proper encouragement and support could perhaps compete with such imposing overseas individuals and share in the say of the eventual outcome.
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