Samba = partying, joy not sex. Salsa = sex.
A New Era for Ice Dance?
- Thread starter Joesitz (RIP)
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Samba = partying, joy not sex. Salsa = sex.
I hope that someone of the ISU is reading our messages. I would really like a part of the competition, where skaters don't jump and focus just on choreoghraphy and interpretation. Then we will also see skaters skating on different kind of music and comparing if skaters are versatiles or not.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I don't believe the contestants nor their fans know much if anything about Latin Dancing. I doubt they've ever been to a Cuban or Brazilian party or festival. It appears they've learned latin dancing from hollywood or TV parodies.
I have no problem with the concept of dance on skates, but I would prefer that the music not be related to ballroom dancing. Carmina Burana, 007, et al would be fine with no reference to ballroom dancing. It would be like a limited Pairs.
Joe
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2006
Until the Kerr's moved to the US to train with Platov, they worked with a Ballroom expert, JP Deloose, every year, and created all of their ODs with him, including their excellent Latin Combination OD from last season.
Salsa and Latin Dancing is very big all over the UK, as is Ballroom Dancing, mainly as a result of Strictly Come Dancing, the very successful BBC show over the past few years.
I should imagine most icedancers will have worked with Ballroom experts at some point in their training to help with characterization of the OD rhythms.
Salsa and Latin Dancing is very big all over the UK, as is Ballroom Dancing, mainly as a result of Strictly Come Dancing, the very successful BBC show over the past few years.
I should imagine most icedancers will have worked with Ballroom experts at some point in their training to help with characterization of the OD rhythms.
If ice dancing was all about the 'Canadian version' (what I would consider as grade-A exhibition-type schmaltz), then two Canadian teams would have been on the podium and D/L would have won the World championship. It didn't turn out that way because there IS no revolution in ice dancing. Ice dancing is about skating skill and flawless execution, just as it always has been. The two Canadian teams are good, but I would be very alarmed if all of a sudden syrupy romance became the #1 criteria for what is 'good' in ice dance.
The best ice dancers win the World Championship. The vehicle isn't as important as the skills.
The best ice dancers win the World Championship. The vehicle isn't as important as the skills.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
I agree and the best ice dancers did win the World Championship this year again IMO. My parents were very upset Dubreuil/Lauzon did not win when I phoned to tell them the final result, but I actually believe Dubreuil/Lauzon should be happy since they are doing extremely well considering their technical skills are arguably at a clear deficit to atleast 3 of the other top teams.
I couldn't have said it better... I think D/L are using "we are really dancing" to hide "we can't twizzle"... and speaking about theater, the only theather i saw was all this kissing and posing before the start of each of their programs. Don't get me wrong,they are great team, but in order to win the tittle,they shouldn't focus on showing how romantic they are, but on the strenght of all of the required elements. No matter how romantic and dancing they are, their weakness is still very visible.Make everything (not only lifts) a top level for next year, then i am sure the tittle will be theirs.
V/M are much stronger technically then D/L, and i am really impressed from their skating. But i didn't like Valse Triste, first because there is no change in the tempo and secondly because there was too much skating on two feet. However the new kids are just great.
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Anyway, if romance was THE only viable focus of ice dance, then brother/sister teams like the Kerrs, the Beiers and the Hubbles would be left out in the cold.
I just wish D/L would at least try to demonstrate versatility in their programs. If all they can do is focus on their off-ice relationship while on the ice, then perhaps they don't have what it takes to be a World champion. If they return next year with still another recycled lovefest, they will have become the most BBB (beautiful but boring) ice dance team ever.
One of the great things about Denkova/Staviiski is that they have shown over the years they can excel at all kinds of music and at all different approaches in their programs. Some have been more successful than others (think "Bach to Africa"), but they have never recycled a successful program year after year.
I just wish D/L would at least try to demonstrate versatility in their programs. If all they can do is focus on their off-ice relationship while on the ice, then perhaps they don't have what it takes to be a World champion. If they return next year with still another recycled lovefest, they will have become the most BBB (beautiful but boring) ice dance team ever.
One of the great things about Denkova/Staviiski is that they have shown over the years they can excel at all kinds of music and at all different approaches in their programs. Some have been more successful than others (think "Bach to Africa"), but they have never recycled a successful program year after year.
D&L have only been doing romantic themes for the past two seasons. They have shown a lot of versatility over the seasons. I think Den&Stav always skate the same way, no matter what music they choose for their FD. That being said, they are the more skilled skaters. They deserved to win both of their World titles, and should have had at least one more in 2004.
I like seeing all types of programs, both the light-hearted and the more serious fare. It makes the sport more interesting. It was mentioned that Tracy Wilson said V&M and D&L are bringing the dancing back to ice dance. She actually makes that exact same comment every couple of years. Just substitute the skaters she says are bringing it back (usually Canadians).
I like seeing all types of programs, both the light-hearted and the more serious fare. It makes the sport more interesting. It was mentioned that Tracy Wilson said V&M and D&L are bringing the dancing back to ice dance. She actually makes that exact same comment every couple of years. Just substitute the skaters she says are bringing it back (usually Canadians).
Your comments make zero sense given some of D/L's past programs. It's painfully obvious from your posts that you don't like them, but your claims that they are without skill and versatility are without foundation in fact. You talk about Bach to Africa, but what about D/L's First Nations dance? I haven't liked some of their FD's, but they haven't by any stretch of the imagination been cookie cutters of one another. This year's had a distinctly different tone (and moves) than last year's, but I definitely think one thing the two programs had in common was that they were the best D/L have ever had.
I'm not sure where the idea came from that there's a "Canadian" style of ice dance.... There are lots of teams in Canada, all with wildly different styles. B/K, D/L and V/M all have very different styles of dancing with different strengths and weaknesses.
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2005
Salsa isn't ballroom. (Response to post you quoted.) I actually dislike dancing with salsa dancers, including one of our instructors, because their very Latin-American-male lead-from-the-pelvis style is, while culturally correct, wicked hard to follow if you're trained on Rhythm/Latin upper-body leads. And I am only repeating what my pros said. (Also, if you do not believe samba is far sexier than almost any of the Latin or Rhythm dances, Bolero excepted, you've never seen it done well. I mean samba as danced in competition, not the street stuff it's descended from.) I would rather do the American/International competitive styles myself, but then I also dislike Lindy, West Coast Swing, and the Hustle. Salsa clubs and the like may be "real" Latin from a sociocultural standpoint, but in terms of competitive dance, they're more social than anything.
While sometimes I wonder how much the ice dancers know about real ballroom, I know for a fact that some of them have done it. Ben Agosto used to dance ballroom with my friend's neice (WAY back when, like age twelve when). And I can actually see it in his body lines. I would actually prefer that they stick closer to ballroom--dont' make them take ballet to improve their posture, send them to a ballroom studio to improve their line and teach them to relate to each other. I know at least one very young team who's doing that right now.
The First Nations FD was a poor choice. European judges have never understood or liked American Native themes. All who have used "Last of the Mohicans" music, beautiful though it is, have not been successful with it.
My point was that until they medaled with Somewhere in Time, D/L had never been on the Worlds podium and had only advanced to 7th place.. Since they made it to the podium with a romantic theme, it seems as though they are going to repeat that theme ad nauseam.
And I wasn't the one who said it was a Canadian style of dance. But other posters in this thread pointed specifically to the Canadian teams' FDs as the proof that a great new Era in Ice Dance has arrived, when schmaltz will reign triumphant and the dramatic themes will be pushed off the podium.
The problem for me is not that they are using 2 years in a row romantic music, but that the dances look very similar, choreo, the lifts, even the costumes-it looks just like the same dances with some small changes. If Den/Sta used 2 year in a row dramatic music, the concept was totally different, the choreo and all the elements.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2006
She said that about Navka/Kostomarov in 2002--when they were somewhere around 10th at the Olympics.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
Me too, especially about D/W, i just felt in love with their skating
While a pretty good technician I find Meryl relatively weak in her presentation. Her arms and most of her expression look more methodical than deliberate. And I feel a little weird everytime she gives the little smirk at the beginning of their Tango. Hellllo? It's not 2005-2006 anymore. Something about her just doesn't make the team look convincing. Not sure why so many people seem to prefer their PD to D/S's. IMO D/S captured the passion and their choreography matched the bombastic music more.
V/M's FD this year was definitely a departure from their usually jam packed FD's from the past 3 years. I think they decided so to show off the pure skating and mature presentation as they entered the senior competition for the first time. IMO they are a better team than D/W at this point - stronger presentation and more musicality.
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- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
One should remember that passion is in the eye of the behlolder. It really can not be compared since different cultures show it differently.
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