2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Scott512]

Interestingly, on the FFKKR roster, Medvyedeva is still listed as belonging to Sambo-70's administration: https://fsrussia.ru/sbornaya.html.

What does this mean in practice? Will some Sambo-70 official have to sign off her financial declarations, medical papers and such?

Does she have/will she get a plaque on the Wall of Honour inside Sambo-70's main corridor?

Of course Zhenya deserves a plaque on the wall of honor at Sambo 70. Yulia too for that matter.

 

[composer]

I know that some posters here whom I respect, like moriel, have made up their mind. I am still struggling. Medvedeva was kind of an idol for me. I was a big fan, I furiously defended her on this board, I was very sad when she did not win in Korea. But now... Things that she says sometimes just do not help me to be on her side. Why does she need to tell the whole world how she is happy now vs. what was before? I just don't get it.

"I am feeling absolutely comfortable and at home at the Cricket Club. I feel like I've been skating there for many years. I have a good relationship with absolutely everyone there. This is something I've dreamed about my whole life, to come to my workplace like to a family home. It is a very cozy environment. I want to go back there again and again. This environment motivates you to work more, because you don't want to leave the rink,” Evgenia shared. “Before the rink was more like a work place for me. Sometimes it was though, the rink was associated with hard work, now the rink is associated with work that is enjoyable. You are doing everything for yourself.”

https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/...-in-her-skating-and-her-life?templateParam=15

I’m not Russian and am not exposed to much of what the average Russian fan would be exposed to, so my frame of reference would be different, but I read the interview above and thought the comparison was to her first year at TCC and not to Sambo-70. My interpretation could be wrong of course. But it would be consistent with the general theme of what she was saying throughout the interview which is that her first year at TCC took a lot of adjusting to but she is settled in now.

 

[nussnacker]

Because they asked her? Because it is her right to say it. If she now really feels like cricket is her family than she can say it out loud, . What I also ask myself still to this day why a over fourth year old adult woman needs to drag the name of ex students through the mud. And zhenya didn't say that much for the entire year . While said adult said more than enough. . She described the rink at Russia that she saw it as a work place because I think that's is the mentality you have in Russia, that it is what you do work work and work where in Canada it is probably a more realxed atmosphere, international atmosphere too, she describes it as such. She describes the difference. But i think most of you probably don't want to understand or even think about the fact that this what was the right step for zhenya, mentally. The thing is also that someone recently told the press that apparently zhenya did indeed come to the rink with flowers but that eteri wasn't there at this time. If that is indeed true and I say if cause we do not know it , than the entire hell many gave zhenya for daring to not bring flowers was for nothing, including in this forum. Than another person may have lied to the press when stating that zhenya didn't bring flowers or at least did not say the entire truth. And that is all I will say about that cause no I do not have the nerve for another discussion of how I hate said trainer. No I do not hate or dislike eteri I just do not like some of the things she did, like dragging the name of her ex student who was her absolute favorite through the mud. Yes she may have been angry and as said many times by myself both sides were at fault, but for God's sake this is an adult woman who probably did know very well how this would get taken when she told the things she did to the press.

Considering Evgenia herself said, that she had her own reasons to leave without saying goodbye and without flowers (https://nevasport.ru/37675-medvedeva-otvetila-pochemu-ne-prishla-k-tutberidze-s-tsvetami/) , makes me believe she didn't do it, whatever Bobrova comes up with a year later

The point is, there are two truths to this Eteri/Evgenia story, to each their own. You believe one side of the story, some believe the other side.
You can't understand Eteri, some can't understand Evgenia and her actions.

I think the differences in opinions stem from:
1) People not speaking russian and misunderstanding things through translations: even simple words sometimes have different connotations, which can result in people perceiving things differently.
2) Cultural differences: I think a lot of people don't understand why Evgenia received criticism in Russia, because they don't understand russian culture and mentality. There are significant differences in perceptions of the same thing, even some words, by russians and by foreigners.
3) Age differences and people being in different stages of their lives

As an older and a russian-speaking person, I understand where Eteri came from, and maybe I can understand where Evgenia came from as well.
But in my cultural view of how teachers are treated in Russia (very very respected), I think Evgenia did a big no-no so the outrage made a complete sense to me.

I remember back in the day, Denis Ten (may his soul rest in peace) commented something like "I forgive Buyanova" (basically, she ended their relationship abruptly and did not show up at his worlds, which he understandably didn't take too well). But guess what, it was Denis who got criticized for daring to think he should be forgiving someone (because it looked arrogant), and not Buyanova.
She's the teacher, and it was up to Denis to resolve the conflict amicably, not up to her. There's a sub-ordinance in teacher-student relationship in russian mind, and I think here's where the western view and russian view take completely different routes. - I hope this example will help some to understand the russian point of view better.

And probably growing up in an atmosphere of sheer and utter respect for teachers, what she did rubbed me the wrong way.
I can see how in the western world, where it's kind of more 'contractual', it would be okay to do that, but I don't think you can expect the same from people with a completely different cultural background.

What I'm trying to do here, is to explain that maximalism ('dragging through the mud' phrases about 'over fourth year old adult woman') is unnecessary and maybe people have such drastically different views, because after all we all grow up conditioned to some things, and it's worth it to try to understand the other side.

That being said, 'this adult woman' helped Evgenia a lot in achieving all her titles, sponsorships and money, which made training in Canada financially possible in the first place.
And for that simple fact, 'this adult woman' does not deserve to be disrespected.

 

[melgirl25]

I understand what samkrut is trying to say. I have also sometimes confessed on her FF that it will probably be for the better if they (Zhenya and Brian) don't use the opportunity of every interview to imply how good her new environment is in comparison to her old skating school. I am interested to know what the differences in her trainings are, to hear that she's changed her diet but don't hide the resentment about the ex-coaching team behind superlatives for the new one. Back then I was absolutely rooting for her decision to move on and I am still supporting this decision. However, I do get sometimes the feeling that they try to keep her relevant on the media by keep telling the same story. But this really has more to do with Evgenia the public persona and not with the skater. I still love her skating and am more than happy to see her improving in some areas.

I think the media tends to ask the same questions over and over. That could be why we are hearing her speak about the change so often.

 

[fabienne1996]

Considering Evgenia herself said, that she had her own reasons to leave without saying goodbye and without flowers (https://nevasport.ru/37675-medvedeva-otvetila-pochemu-ne-prishla-k-tutberidze-s-tsvetami/) , makes me believe she didn't do it, whatever Bobrova comes up with a year later

The point is, there are two truths to this Eteri/Evgenia story, to each their own. You believe one side of the story, some believe the other side.
You can't understand Eteri, some can't understand Evgenia and her actions.

I think the differences in opinions stem from:
1) People not speaking russian and misunderstanding things through translations: even simple words sometimes have different connotations, which can result in people perceiving things differently.
2) Cultural differences: I think a lot of people don't understand why Evgenia received criticism in Russia, because they don't understand russian culture and mentality. There are significant differences in perceptions of the same thing, even some words, by russians and by foreigners.
3) Age differences and people being in different stages of their lives

As an older and a russian-speaking person, I understand where Eteri came from, and maybe I can understand where Evgenia came from as well.
But in my cultural view of how teachers are treated in Russia (very very respected), I think Evgenia did a big no-no so the outrage made a complete sense to me.

I remember back in the day, Denis Ten (may his soul rest in peace) commented something like "I forgive Buyanova" (basically, she ended their relationship abruptly and did not show up at his worlds, which he understandably didn't take too well). But guess what, it was Denis who got criticized for daring to think he should be forgiving someone (because it looked arrogant), and not Buyanova.
She's the teacher, and it was up to Denis to resolve the conflict amicably, not up to her. There's a sub-ordinance in teacher-student relationship in russian mind, and I think here's where the western view and russian view take completely different routes. - I hope this example will help some to understand the russian point of view better.

And probably growing up in an atmosphere of sheer and utter respect for teachers, what she did rubbed me the wrong way.
I can see how in the western world, where it's kind of more 'contractual', it would be okay to do that, but I don't think you can expect the same from people with a completely different cultural background.

What I'm trying to do here, is to explain that maximalism ('dragging through the mud' phrases about 'over fourth year old adult woman') is unnecessary and maybe people have such drastically different views, because after all we all grow up conditioned to some things, and it's worth it to try to understand the other side.

That being said, 'this adult woman' helped Evgenia a lot in achieving all her titles, sponsorships and money, which made training in Canada financially possible in the first place.
And for that simple fact, 'this adult woman' does not deserve to be disrespected.

i know that there are differences in russian culture from the western culture But in my opinion and this is what i have grown up with its also that the adults who have lived longer than the younger persons, should know better, and sadly it is not the first time where she drags a students name through the press after they leave. Eteri is the adult here and where I come from it's normal for adults to know more about the consequence of one's action, and while I understand that she was angry and hurt it doesn't excuse for one moment the fact that she did go to the press and told something that was deeply private, than talked bad about zhenya. And as the adult in this situation and the one who is more experienced in matters of life she probably knew exactly what the publics reaction would be. So she set the public on zhenya knowing full well what hell zhenya would get. And for me that is not an action of a mature and responsible adult woman but more or less like that of a child who doesn't get what she wanted. And yes it was also handled badly from zhenya side as well.

 

[andromache]

That being said, 'this adult woman' helped Evgenia a lot in achieving all her titles, sponsorships and money, which made training in Canada financially possible in the first place.
And for that simple fact, 'this adult woman' does not deserve to be disrespected.

Fortunately, Orser and Zhenya have both acknowledged the importance of Eteri's positive impact on Zhenya's career and abilities many, many times.

 

[Fluture]

Fortunately, Orser and Zhenya have both acknowledged the importance of Eteri's positive impact on Zhenya's career and abilities many, many times.

That‘s what I wanted to say but you beat me to it.

Brian as well as Tracy have said more than once how they don‘t take Zhenya‘s previous training for granted. Zhenya said she was grateful to Eteri and co. for eleven years of fruitful work. So, no disrespect from them at all. This is what should matter.

 

[asingingwife]

Considering Evgenia herself said, that she had her own reasons to leave without saying goodbye and without flowers (https://nevasport.ru/37675-medvedeva-otvetila-pochemu-ne-prishla-k-tutberidze-s-tsvetami/) , makes me believe she didn't do it, whatever Bobrova comes up with a year later

The point is, there are two truths to this Eteri/Evgenia story, to each their own. You believe one side of the story, some believe the other side.
You can't understand Eteri, some can't understand Evgenia and her actions.

I think the differences in opinions stem from:
1) People not speaking russian and misunderstanding things through translations: even simple words sometimes have different connotations, which can result in people perceiving things differently.
2) Cultural differences: I think a lot of people don't understand why Evgenia received criticism in Russia, because they don't understand russian culture and mentality. There are significant differences in perceptions of the same thing, even some words, by russians and by foreigners.
3) Age differences and people being in different stages of their lives

As an older and a russian-speaking person, I understand where Eteri came from, and maybe I can understand where Evgenia came from as well.
But in my cultural view of how teachers are treated in Russia (very very respected), I think Evgenia did a big no-no so the outrage made a complete sense to me.

I remember back in the day, Denis Ten (may his soul rest in peace) commented something like "I forgive Buyanova" (basically, she ended their relationship abruptly and did not show up at his worlds, which he understandably didn't take too well). But guess what, it was Denis who got criticized for daring to think he should be forgiving someone (because it looked arrogant), and not Buyanova.
She's the teacher, and it was up to Denis to resolve the conflict amicably, not up to her. There's a sub-ordinance in teacher-student relationship in russian mind, and I think here's where the western view and russian view take completely different routes. - I hope this example will help some to understand the russian point of view better.

And probably growing up in an atmosphere of sheer and utter respect for teachers, what she did rubbed me the wrong way.
I can see how in the western world, where it's kind of more 'contractual', it would be okay to do that, but I don't think you can expect the same from people with a completely different cultural background.

What I'm trying to do here, is to explain that maximalism ('dragging through the mud' phrases about 'over fourth year old adult woman') is unnecessary and maybe people have such drastically different views, because after all we all grow up conditioned to some things, and it's worth it to try to understand the other side.

That being said, 'this adult woman' helped Evgenia a lot in achieving all her titles, sponsorships and money, which made training in Canada financially possible in the first place.
And for that simple fact, 'this adult woman' does not deserve to be disrespected.

I don't think that conflicts. In fact if anything her reason for not giving Eteri flowers might have been just that, she couldn't find her when she went to the rink.

 

[Vandevska]

Seriously? She announced her SP and then her LP just a couple of days ago and that couldn't be discussed but once again she had to be attacked? :disapp:

 

[nussnacker]

i know that there are differences in russian culture from the western culture But in my opinion and this is what i have grown up with its also that the adults who have lived longer than the younger persons, should know better, and sadly it is not the first time where she drags a students name through the press after they leave. Eteri is the adult here and where I come from it's normal for adults to know more about the consequence of one's action, and while I understand that she was angry and hurt it doesn't excuse for one moment the fact that she did go to the press and told something that was deeply private, than talked bad about zhenya. And as the adult in this situation and the one who is more experienced in matters of life she probably knew exactly what the publics reaction would be. So she set the public on zhenya knowing full well what hell zhenya would get. And for me that is not an action of a mature and responsible adult woman but more or less like that of a child who doesn't get what she wanted. And yes it was also handled badly from zhenya side as well.

Well, that's what I'm trying to convey, people see Eteri's account of events differently in Russia and in some other countries.
It's not Eteri's thing to comment on the leave of her students, all coaches in Russia (or coaches of russian decent) do that including Mishin, Plushenko, Tarasova, Buyanova, Raf etc etc etc.
But people tend not to notice that for other coaches as much, and make a bigger deal on Eteri speaking up.

Coaches often comment both positive and negative things when skaters leave them, Eteri also said that Evgenia is a moral leader and she is the person who strives for gold/best result (or smth along the lines of that).
So that's nothing out of ordinary for russian figure skating landscape.
If Mishin commented on someone like Nugumanova (calling her lazy) when they parted ways, how do you think he would've reacted if Liza Tuktamysheva left him without saying a word after so many years of work? The answer seems pretty obvious, and being honest, I wouldn't blame him if he chose to say Liza did what she did.
Should a teacher stay silent, if that teacher feels disrespected? For some the answer is yes, for me it's a no.
And as I said, it highly depends on our own cultural upbringings, the light under which we see certain situations.

And again, that's not to say anything about Evgenia, that is to explain why people in Russia saw things differently compared to other people.

I can perfectly understand Evgenia's fans as well, maybe moving different countries a lot helped me to get that there's never one answer to even some simple questions.

- - - Updated - - -

Fortunately, Orser and Zhenya have both acknowledged the importance of Eteri's positive impact on Zhenya's career and abilities many, many times.

Good for them, some fans need to take their take on it as an example for their own behavior

 

[Tavi...]

I know that some posters here whom I respect, like moriel, have made up their mind. I am still struggling. Medvedeva was kind of an idol for me. I was a big fan, I furiously defended her on this board, I was very sad when she did not win in Korea. But now... Things that she says sometimes just do not help me to be on her side. Why does she need to tell the whole world how she is happy now vs. what was before? I just don't get it.

"I am feeling absolutely comfortable and at home at the Cricket Club. I feel like I've been skating there for many years. I have a good relationship with absolutely everyone there. This is something I've dreamed about my whole life, to come to my workplace like to a family home. It is a very cozy environment. I want to go back there again and again. This environment motivates you to work more, because you don't want to leave the rink,” Evgenia shared. “Before the rink was more like a work place for me. Sometimes it was though, the rink was associated with hard work, now the rink is associated with work that is enjoyable. You are doing everything for yourself.”

https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/...-in-her-skating-and-her-life?templateParam=15

The bulk of Evgenia’s comments in this article - and in fact, all of her comments prior to those you quoted - were about her struggle last year to adapt to training in Canada, with new technique, with a new coaching team, a new system, in a foreign language. What she’s saying in the text you quoted is that she has finally overcome these things and feels at home. She also says that despite feeling at home and having made new friends, she still misses Moscow and her friends, and that she still sometimes feels lonely.

The only comparison she makes with her former training place is that it “was associated with hard work” and that her new training environment “is associated with work that is enjoyable.” As a native English speaker (and as someone who analyzes people’s writing for a living), I read her words to mean only that she is happy in her new training environment. I don’t read her to be criticizing her former coach or old training environment at all.

If you think about it, this kind of feeling - liking certain things and situations better than others - is completely normal and natural. That’s why we marry or become best friends with one person and not another, why we study one subject or follow one career and not another, why we decide to buy one house and not another. It doesn’t mean the person we don’t become best friends with, the career we don’t choose, or the house we bypass, is bad. It just means we want something different. I think that is all Evgenia is saying here.

 

[flanker]

Speaking of Eteri...



(What her programs in the upcoming season will be? Will Daniil do the choreo for her? Questions, questions...)

 

[nussnacker]

Speaking of Eteri...



(What her programs in the upcoming season will be? Will Daniil do the choreo for her? Questions, questions...)

Since the camp is over, this should mean we'll get an announcement of the programs pretty soon!

 

[[email protected]]

The bulk of Evgenia’s comments in this article - and in fact, all of her comments prior to those you quoted - were about her struggle last year to adapt to training in Canada.

That's my problem with her interviews. Almost a year ago she said that all her friends are at her new place and that she was very happy in Canada. Now I read that she had a year of struggle and tough adjustments and her friends are in Moscow. But my biggest problem is that such a large and profound interview not to some random guys but to ISU appears now, on July 15. I would understand it much bettter if it would have come out close to New Year when she wins her GP stages, GPF, and tells the world what a long way she had to go since Olympics to regain her former glory. Yes, you could refer it to my "Russian mentality" but I read this interview like "it was hard work for me before and now I have fun". Come on, is this sport about winning medals or about having fun?

 

[noraaa]

I read this interview like "it was hard work for me before and now I have fun". Come on, is this sport about winning medals or about having fun?

perhaps we can acknowledge that it can be both there is often pleasure to be found in the satisfaction of seeing hard work pay off rather than feeling your hard work is fruitless or your changes more incremental than desired.

 

[Scott512]

Seriously? She announced her SP and then her LP just a couple of days ago and that couldn't be discussed but once again she had to be attacked? :disapp:

Last season the short program got Evgenia off to a slow start in competitions. Next season I think her SP will get her off two very good starts and then the rest is up to her and the free skate.

 

[Scott512]

Speaking of Eteri...



(What her programs in the upcoming season will be? Will Daniil do the choreo for her? Questions, questions...)

That picture says yeah what are you looking at!?

 

[Lunalovesskating]

Last season the short program got Evgenia off to a slow start in competitions. Next season I think her SP will get her off two very good starts and then the rest is up to her and the free skate.

I think both her SP and FS will give her a good start for her next season. Her SP was finished in April and between June and July she finished her Free Skate, both look to be very suitable for her music choice wise and she said that she had wanted to skate to both programs for years and feels a connection to them, but was not old enough for them the seasons before.
Now she has enough time to get them solid before Test Skates compared to last season where she only rehearsed her Free Skate 10 times before Test Skates. I cannot wait to see the full programs, the small clips already look promising.

I also love Alina's music choices. So I am extremely happy at this point and look forward to the season. Now I am hoping that Anna's FS and Alena's SP will also be amazing *fingers crossed*.

 

[5Axel]

That's my problem with her interviews. Almost a year ago she said that all her friends are at her new place and that she was very happy in Canada. Now I read that she had a year of struggle and tough adjustments and her friends are in Moscow. But my biggest problem is that such a large and profound interview not to some random guys but to ISU appears now, on July 15. I would understand it much bettter if it would have come out close to New Year when she wins her GP stages, GPF, and tells the world what a long way she had to go since Olympics to regain her former glory. Yes, you could refer it to my "Russian mentality" but I read this interview like "it was hard work for me before and now I have fun". Come on, is this sport about winning medals or about having fun?

I think there is no point in arguing, this is really about Russian mentality, some non-Russian people probably won't understand you anyway.
But of course, you are allowed to voice your own opinion (if reasonable).
What about to go to Zhenya 's FF instead and have some fun, as I suggested before?
And did you know that Riasport wrote an article about Zhenya picking strawberries? [emoji23]
https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?51695-Evgenia-Medvedeva/page1158

 

[fabienne1996]

That's my problem with her interviews. Almost a year ago she said that all her friends are at her new place and that she was very happy in Canada. Now I read that she had a year of struggle and tough adjustments and her friends are in Moscow. But my biggest problem is that such a large and profound interview not to some random guys but to ISU appears now, on July 15. I would understand it much bettter if it would have come out close to New Year when she wins her GP stages, GPF, and tells the world what a long way she had to go since Olympics to regain her former glory. Yes, you could refer it to my "Russian mentality" but I read this interview like "it was hard work for me before and now I have fun". Come on, is this sport about winning medals or about having fun?

Yes i Think it is your Russian mentality, not to say anything against you but you seem to think that because it is sports it can't be fun too, I think it has to be a balance, yes it is professional sport but you are also supposed to have fun doing it . And why is it wrong for you when she told last year that it was happy in Canada but she now also tells that she struggled. ? Because I don't see the problem you see. It was natural to have a tough time and some struggle while adjusting to her new life, but what doesn't mean that she could not have friends and still be happy or what is your problem with it? I really do not understand your problem. Cause I see none. . I mean when you or I turn our life's over , move to another country, where another language becomes your main language, different customs. Than we would struggle to for a time right. But that doesn't mean that we do not like our new life or that we haven't found friends who help us right. That is exactly what zhenya said. It's no different from anyone moving to another country and starting to live there