2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Alexz]

Thank you Alex. But what I really meant was they need them spread out more at other rinks throughout Russia not just one or two as it is now plus Zhenya in Canada.

But why? For what purpose?

I dunno about you, but 3A, Zags, Valieva and Akatiyeva should stay right there where they are. They are doing just fine there. CSKA can poach from other groups.

 

[Scott512]

I think he means those elite ladies should be more spread out between rinks.

Thanks. Yes more spread out and that more Elite skaters in other big cities in Russia not just in Moscow at 1 rink . I think it's up to the other rinks in the big cities in Russia to try to catch up to what's going on at Sambo-70 and that probably will take years.

 

[Ziotic]

Well, Russian "potential-elite" level is a already the elite level, they just can't get a spot on a team for international competitions, because other Russian girls are a bit better. Even rookies (ex-juniors to be seniors) with their previous season level of skills and programs are way better than anybody else non-Russian in the world. Except few senior Japanese ladies, I really cant see who can challenge them now. Whom do we have here stateside? Braddie Tannel? Gabriella Daleman?

I mean, Gabby has a world medal, something Konstantinova, Sotskova and Samudrova didn’t accomplish on their world outings.

 

[Alexz]

I mean, Gabby has a world medal, something Konstantinova, Sotskova and Samudrova didn’t accomplish on their world outings.

I tell you even more amazing thing: Gabby is Olympic champion, but Medvedva is not. It does not change the fact that Gabby is a weak skater according to modern standards.

 

[Tolstoj]

Thanks. Yes more spread out and that more Elite skaters in other big cities in Russia not just in Moscow at 1 rink . I think it's up to the other rinks in the big cities in Russia to try to catch up to what's going on at Sambo-70 and that probably will take years.

There is a big funding issue though.

Moskvina and Mishin complained about this for ages and they still do: Moscow clubs get waaay more money than SPB clubs, and we're talking SPB, the second biggest city in Russia, outside these two i bet they get very little, and that's why you rarely see successful skaters coming out from Kazan, Sochi,... and most skaters from these smaller federations aim at moving to Moscow or SPB.

That's why in the past i ranted a little about CSKA getting too much money for what they achieved, you could spread all of that to other cities and you'd have even more pools.

There is power in numbers.

Khrustalniy is so good because there are lots of excellent skaters in constant internal competition. Everybody is on their toes and learns all of the time, nobody wants to lag behind, assuming you are ambitious and hard working as a skater.

Having one elite in your rink is only a distraction for the other skaters that have to give way.
Plus one elite doesn't bring in sufficient resources, like trainers with different expertise, choreographers to maintain the level.
Only a rink like Khrustalniy can sustain an in-house dedicated choreographer and even Gleikhengauz is strained with providing for like 20 skaters.

Wait what? I agree on all the rest, but all coaching teams have an in-house dedicated choreographer, it's a russian tradition:

- Mishin has Tatiana Prokofieva
- Rukavicin has Olga Glinka and Valentin Molotov
- Chebotareva has Olga Kliushnichenko,
- even abroad former Soviet Union coaches like Raf has his wife and Nadia Kanaeva as choreographers
- CSKA has multiple choreographers (Tatiana Tarasova, Irina Tagaeva, Maxim Zavozin, Alexander Uspenski, Sergei Verbillo works with Davydov skaters, Peter Tchernyshev and Nikita Mikhailov often work with them also)

But why? For what purpose?

I dunno about you, but 3A, Zags, Valieva and Akatiyeva should stay right there where they are. They are doing just fine there. CSKA can poach from other groups.

That's actually a good logic, you should never be dependent to one coach, because let's say something happen, and that rink can't produce top skaters anymore, you're done, while if you have multiple sources, you keep good internal competition.

As for CSKA, they can poach Eteri's skaters easily (and frankly it's understandable why they do it: you want to pick from the very best) by guaranteeing more funding, less competition inside the rink, all the specialists are there for you,...

But to be fair now in ladies we're seeing more competition: you have to think that at World Team Trophy there were no Tutberidze skaters and Russian Ladies still did very well with Tuktamysheva and Samodurova.

 

[Tolstoj]

I am not sure who will step aside first. Come on, Mishin will be 81 in Bejing.

Since last season or 2 seasons ago we saw Gachinski showing up at domestic events instead of Mishin.

I think Mishin will continue to work until he can and wants, but i bet he's also preparring Gachinski in the meantime for that day.

 

[LynsJ]

Since last season or 2 seasons ago we saw Gachinski showing up at domestic events instead of Mishin.

I think Mishin will continue to work until he can and wants, but i bet he's also preparring Gachinski in the meantime for that day.

I don’t want to imagine a kiss n cry without Mishin. What a legend!

 

[Happy Skates]

There is a big funding issue though.



As for CSKA, they can poach Eteri's skaters easily (and frankly it's understandable why they do it: you want to pick from the very best) by guaranteeing more funding, less competition inside the rink, all the specialists are there for you,...

But to be fair now in ladies we're seeing more competition: you have to think that at World Team Trophy there were no Tutberidze skaters and Russian Ladies still did very well with Tuktamysheva and Samodurova.

I'm sure CSKA would love to have any of Zagitova, 3A or Valieva etc, but why would any of them want to go to CSKA? Buyanova hasn't had any success in ladies in years. The only seemingly decent ladies coach from CSKA is Dayvdov, but that would be seen as a major step down for any of them coming from Eteri. And the political influence seems to be getting less; I mean it didn't really seem to help Gubanova, so why would it help anyone else.

 

[rlopen]

I tell you even more amazing thing: Gabby is Olympic champion, but Medvedva is not. It does not change the fact that Gabby is a weak skater according to modern standards.

Hmmmm I wouldn't call her a "weak" skater by any means...just not a medal contender or "final group" skater. But then again any women skater who manages to make it to the GP this quad I think has amazing skills and can easily impress me when clean.

(And even others who CAN'T...*cough* Gubanova and Nugumanova and Tarakanova AKA the most criminally underrated skaters I've ever seen *cough*)

 

[LiamForeman]

My hopes are for Tarakanova, Sinitsyna, Kanysheva, Vasilieva, and Tarusina and Gubanova (if they're not full senior )

And seriously, they could BE the JGPF. Well, Valieva won't be eligible (for Russian SrNats), so at this point with Gubanova's drama I think she'd be left off.

 

[LiamForeman]

(And even others who CAN'T...*cough* Gubanova and Nugumanova and Tarakanova AKA the most criminally underrated skaters I've ever seen *cough*)

Thank you for saying that. I am WAY impressed with Nugumanova who seems like Gubanova to also get short shrift in placements. Tarakanova is a rough diamond and can be great. It's sad that they are the C-list in Russia. Can you imagine if those three were competing in the US? Mariah who?

 

[Scott512]

And seriously, they could BE the JGPF. Well, Valieva won't be eligible (for Russian SrNats), so at this point with Gubanova's drama I think she'd be left off.

When she does skate Nastya has to skate well. People will be watching. If they keep screwing around with her career then she has to rep another country But that is a last resort to me. Damn shame Buyanova and TAT combo did not help her. And the drama was caused by her former coach who is 40 years Nastyas senior. I am sure Nastya was not perfect to work with but she has kept things classy with only good things to say about her former coach even after Buyanova spoke publicly of expelling her for not being fit.

 

[Vandevska]

It's not about Eteri's skaters going to another coach imo. I think there are groups that should be getting more recognition and funding. I really can't talk much about the funding since I'm not aware of how exactly it goes, but i don't think funds should become centralised in a way just because one group is doing extremely well. And what I mean by this is not that Eteri group should be getting less funding, but that IF it's only based on the results, then that makes it much harder for an up-and-coming coach.

I don't think I explained what I mean well, but the bottom line is that I think Eteri team deserves their funding and recognition and all, but it's inevitable that other groups be supported for the evolution of the sport. Variety (and of course more competition) is good. And who knows, it maybe the future lies somewhere else.

 

[rlopen]

Also, the reason Gubanova is saying nice things is because she has to...these girls who get trashed talk by their coach and then say nice things about their coaches to the public have no power at all. They aren't world champions or recognized athletes, so they have to pretend not to be angry to cause any more controversy or hate spreaded their way. If I was Gubanova I would be furious with what Buianova said about me, but I would publicly be nice because I would know that if I said anything, I would be shut down and my skating career over. On the other hand, Buianova holds power and is abusing it and flexing it by publicly shaming and trash talking Gubanova in this way. It is disgusting how coaches trash talk their former pupils and skaters when the skaters cannot express their true feelings and defend themselves in retaliation to these abusive coaches who are using their position in power to further twist the knife in their former pupils (by abusive I mean gossiping about them to the press and in public after their pupils leave) or their careers will be ruined. I hope when any of these skaters retire and do not have to worry anymore about their skating careers that they feel they can tell everyone their true feelings. (Gubanova's true feelings may be what she said, but if anyone did that to me as a 16 year old? I would sure as heck be extremely angry and have nothing but anger and hatred directed towards them.)

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Anastasiia Gubanova is a gift to the sport of figure skating!! #EnuffSaid

 

[Mawwerg]

I tell you even more amazing thing: Gabby is Olympic champion, but Medvedva is not. It does not change the fact that Gabby is a weak skater according to modern standards.

I think you exaggerated it. Gabby has qualities for top level scores and performances. Unfortunately the number of problems she has outweights now her skills.

 

[Grin]

Wait, wait.. Russia needs more elite ladies? Scott, I enjoy your post often and your general vibe on this forum.. But Russia needs more elite ladies? Seriously? I don't mind at all, but where would they send them all? There are barely enough international competitions to fit them all.

Actually I want even more elite ladies and something like NHL of figure skating for Russian ladies. I think they deserve it.

 

[Scott512]

Also, the reason Gubanova is saying nice things is because she has to...these girls who get trashed talk by their coach and then say nice things about their coaches to the public have no power at all. They aren't world champions or recognized athletes, so they have to pretend not to be angry to cause any more controversy or hate spreaded their way. If I was Gubanova I would be furious with what Buianova said about me, but I would publicly be nice because I would know that if I said anything, I would be shut down and my skating career over. On the other hand, Buianova holds power and is abusing it and flexing it by publicly shaming and trash talking Gubanova in this way. It is disgusting how coaches trash talk their former pupils and skaters when the skaters cannot express their true feelings and defend themselves in retaliation to these abusive coaches who are using their position in power to further twist the knife in their former pupils (by abusive I mean gossiping about them to the press and in public after their pupils leave) or their careers will be ruined. I hope when any of these skaters retire and do not have to worry anymore about their skating careers that they feel they can tell everyone their true feelings. (Gubanova's true feelings may be what she said, but if anyone did that to me as a 16 year old? I would sure as heck be extremely angry and have nothing but anger and hatred directed towards them.)

Reading this is upsetting because what you wrote is all true. Sad but true. Russian athletes don't usually talk back to their elders or coaches or professors. So I'm not surprised Nastya has not said anything negative back at the negative Buyanova. Her parents would probably bury their daughter's career if they spoke out against this once elite coach. Nastya has to move on at this point and hope her new coaching situation will help her regain her confidence so she can have an excellent season no matter what level she skates on.

 

[Scott512]

Anastasiia Gubanova is a gift to the sport of figure skating!! #EnuffSaid

I am sincerely hoping this new coach of hers who supposed to be good with artistry can do a lot for Anastasia with her programs and what has to be her broken confidence after what happened with Buyanova and her former very public coaches criticisms of her. Nastya needs to be nurtured at this point in her career without question. Hopefully this new coach can do that but I'm not sure what he can do in terms of difficult step sequences to teach her or quads or triple axels and if her can teach her those touch jumps down the road. But that's first things first we build her confidence and get her skating flowing beautifully again then work on the technical elements.

 

[Scott512]

But why? For what purpose?

I dunno about you, but 3A, Zags, Valieva and Akatiyeva should stay right there where they are. They are doing just fine there. CSKA can poach from other groups.

Yes they should stay where they are but I want more girls on their level in some of the other cities and rinks. It will take time though.