- Joined
- Jan 19, 2005
It Alina ever leaves Eteri for another coach this message board will meltdown.
Not just this place.
Probably the entire social-media structure.
2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
Not just this place.
Probably the entire social-media structure.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2014
- Joined
- Jul 12, 2019
Hello, everyone! As a yearlong FS fan and general cheerer-on of the Russian ladies' teams, I have a question that's been bothering me for quite some time now, and that is this:
If other coaches in Russia and elsewhere followed Eteri Tutberidze's techniques, might their skaters enjoy a level of success that's comparable to hers?
From what I can tell, Eteri Georgievna's strategy is threefold:
1. Proposing a modest amount of food/drink intake that's designed to make her skaters go through puberty later than non-skaters and remain sufficiently thin thereafter to keep their jump techniques strong (e.g., Alina Zagitova, Evgenia Medvedeva).
2. Training her skaters in the same rink at the same time, with the reasoning that if you train with the best, you're more likely to become one of the best.
3. Requiring skaters to practice their full programs nonstop, thus entering them into muscle memory, rather than having the skaters concentrate primarily on difficult elements and potentially sacrifice consistency in the process.
Many opinions have been expressed as to whether Eteri Georgievna is too difficult a taskmaster, and that's not where I'm intending to go with this post. I greatly respect her accomplishments and those of her team. What I'm wondering is, if one strips away some of the cultural contrasts between West and East, how many other coaches might achieve similar success using her methods, and to what extent? For instance, if other coaches had their skaters follow more modest dietary standards but kept the centralization and program drills, would they see a rise in their number of podium placements?
I haven't seen these questions asked or answered in Golden Skate--not yet, anyway. I suppose you could call this post a thought experiment. I'll be interested in seeing your opinions...
If other coaches in Russia and elsewhere followed Eteri Tutberidze's techniques, might their skaters enjoy a level of success that's comparable to hers?
From what I can tell, Eteri Georgievna's strategy is threefold:
1. Proposing a modest amount of food/drink intake that's designed to make her skaters go through puberty later than non-skaters and remain sufficiently thin thereafter to keep their jump techniques strong (e.g., Alina Zagitova, Evgenia Medvedeva).
2. Training her skaters in the same rink at the same time, with the reasoning that if you train with the best, you're more likely to become one of the best.
3. Requiring skaters to practice their full programs nonstop, thus entering them into muscle memory, rather than having the skaters concentrate primarily on difficult elements and potentially sacrifice consistency in the process.
Many opinions have been expressed as to whether Eteri Georgievna is too difficult a taskmaster, and that's not where I'm intending to go with this post. I greatly respect her accomplishments and those of her team. What I'm wondering is, if one strips away some of the cultural contrasts between West and East, how many other coaches might achieve similar success using her methods, and to what extent? For instance, if other coaches had their skaters follow more modest dietary standards but kept the centralization and program drills, would they see a rise in their number of podium placements?
I haven't seen these questions asked or answered in Golden Skate--not yet, anyway. I suppose you could call this post a thought experiment. I'll be interested in seeing your opinions...
Nope. CSKA cant really poach anyone from Eteri now. There is nothing CSKA can offer now. I can't see anyone from Eteri's group (3A girls and Alina especially) wanting to join CSKA club.
Funding? Eteri group has whatever they desire now. Most of the Eteri skaters are coming from a rather well-off families, so they don't really need those military salaries, ranks and military pensions or cozy setups after professional sport career which CSKA usually likes to seduce with. A lot of things simply are not the same like they were back in Soviet times. This forum rather often doesn't really receive all the information in full. Just some random translated snippets of random interviews. There are tons of true stories and interviews of ex-CSKA athletes from then and now (including those famous hockey players), and there are number of interviews by many parents of Eteri's skaters too. Easily googleable and translatable. BTW, no reason of gossiping accusations. It is all public and open information.Facts.
Specialists? Eteri has her team in spades. Why in a world any Eteri's skater would need anything elsewhere? They are winning. If it ain't broken dont fix it. Again, their coaches are good, but nothing outstanding in CSKA in terms of specialists now. They actually kicked out a strong coach Inna Goncharenko recently and poached all her students, including Radionova. How did that work out for her after switching to Buyanova after 2015-2016 season? Facts.
Less competition in CSKA? How's that working out for them now? How did that work out for Tsurskaya, Sotnikova, Gubanova and Nurgumanova? These are all amazingly talented skaters. Why would any Eteri's skater want to follow their career path? Buyanova failed to produce any meaningful results in the recent 5 years while having all that funding you just told us. Facts.
Many athletes would dream to get into an elite group with other strong skaters. Many athletes are looking for a group with strong skaters (as a matter of facts - Shoma Uno for instance, according to his own words he is looking for a training group comparable to his level, he didn't went to CSKA 'for less competion'). You get better by training with a stronger skaters.
No, thank you. 3A, Alina, KamiVali, Usacheva, Akatyeva and the rest should stay right there where they are. Some people are mocking CSKA as a "graveyard for talents" lately.
Oh i wasn't backing this theory as a good thing, just sayin' it could happen.
Competition at Eteri's rink is insane, some skater can't handle it in the long run, you can read that from interviews with former Eteri skaters: Eteri is also the kind of coach that tells in your face how weak you are in order to motivate you, if you say to someone "you're not good enough" the person can either use that to improve and catch up or accept it and quit.
I'm not saying moving away from that group is generally a good thing, i criticized it last summer, but if you do it, you either have to deal with less of everything at other rinks or keep all the benefits at CSKA but with less successes as an athlete (unless something changes there).
It's the same problem all over again of other coaches not getting proper funding. (especially outside of Moscow)
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2006
I'm curious about Guliakova? She's 16, right? It seems unlikely she'll get any senior assignment, so why not just stay in Juniors, especially if her 3axel is getting more consistent? What other possible juniors could show up for JrTestSkates? I think those are all I know.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2014
Welcome Elegance. Figure skating is still elegant.
Eteri is remarkable but she's not for everybody. If you're not tough she will break you. If you can't take criticism she will hurt your feelings. As for technique it's probably very difficult for other coaches to copy Eteri's technique. it would also be emotionally crippling for any coach to admit their inferior to this great coach.
No question the girl and lady skaters at Sambo-70 really benefit from the competition and pushing each other. It's ferocious competition and I admire all of them and wish I had the competitive nature they do. That's why they're doing what they're doing I would sure like a million-to-one odds against them.
I can't really answer your questions - but I have an opinion
1. Rude question with a lot of assumptions - you're on thin ice here. The whole nutrition/weight debate is something related to all figure skaters, not only Eteri's camp.
2 and 3. Isn't that a given? Doesn't everybody do that? If not - they should.
We tried many times here to disrupt Eteri's approach, it's tough to say whether you can emulate it, probably yes but you need to have the same circumstances in order to do it.
It's important to note that what you see today is the result of 10 years of coaching using this model and having all the resources they need: Eteri is now the biggest most popular coach in Russia, Federation will always provide them everything they need and Russia pays very well when athletes bring results.
On the points you touched above i'd also add having that long term mentality:
- making sure you have new juniors coming every year.
- if generation 1 did 50, you should aim at 70 with generation 2.
- maximizing scoring potential using the rules with difficult transitions, more difficult jumps, all combos in the second half, GOE for spins, etc. Treat difficult elements as any other element.
I'd say outside of Russia you could do the same in China or Japan: China has a similar approach on how they handle sports, problem is coaches aren't all that preparred about single skating, there is also a big problem with stamina across most of their skaters i suspect due to harsh diet restrictions but i'm not sure if it is just that, while Japan has more people interested in the sport, they have new skaters coming every year much like in Russia.
Yes what about Guliakova? I forgot about her. I am worrying that some really great ladies are not going to qualify for RusNats as there are likely only 3-4 spots left to qualify through the Russian Cup. There is Guliakova, Gubanova, Nugumanova, Talalaikina who probably have to q this way, and I am worried they might not make it.
You sound quite misinformed, honestly. I suggest you actually research the subject, before spreading rumors and prejudice.
As forrepliating Eteri's success, there is no trick. I mean, take someone like Irina Viner, for example, who has been owning her sport for years. Still noone can replicate
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2014
Sorry for dropping suddenly in this thread, but does anyone know what happened to Alisa Fedichkina? I throughly enjoyed her in juniors specially these (1) (2), even though I disliked some of her program choices. The cat program was a choice but she was also lovely in it. 
Did she retire?
Did she retire?
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
No, because those points are within most coaching teams. All athletes have a certain diet; not only in Russian rinks, but everywhere else in the world as well. And I don't believe this affects puberty; Alina clearly had a visually changing body when she was 15, if you compare it to a year ago. Many rinks have competitors where you "train with the best". Elena and Masha trained together. Tukt and Samodurova. And in Eteri's rink, they weren't the best while training. For example, when Evgenia and Alina were training together, Alina wasn't anywhere close to the best for a few years.
And of course, just looking at Eteri's skaters alone, not all of them have the same abilities. Not even close. They're all different in jumping ability, spin quality, skating skills, speed, musicality, etc.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2014
Sorry for dropping suddenly in this thread, but does anyone know what happened to Alisa Fedichkina? I throughly enjoyed her in juniors specially these (1) (2), even though I disliked some of her program choices. The cat program was a choice but she was also lovely in it.
No need to be sorry. I think Alisa is still out there.
She is adorable and her cat ears cute.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2017
Alisa is training with Mishin's group now. She was at his camp in Florida earlier this month with Liza, Sofia, and others. I'm not sure what kind of form she's in though. She competed once or twice domestically last year and didn't have good showings.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2019
The short answer is no. I think these three points are very much an over simplification of Eteri's methods. In fact, there are many coaches who go by these three principles. If "Work hard", "eat less", and training at the same time as the coach's other students were the principles to success, we would see many other Eteris (in and out of Russia). There are just so many strict drill sergeants within the sport. Like Eteri or not, she's more than just strict. And to the point about training top students at the same time, almost all coaches in Russia do this, and even most coaches outside of Russia do this to an extent. Having weight requirements is also something that is almost universal - Students from Buyanova, Hamada, Borser etc. all do this. Eteri is known for drilling repetitions and programs more than most coaches, but there are definitely other coaches who do this. There are just so many success-hungry/brutal coaches, and many of them must have tried this method. The truth is, we don't completely know all of Eteri's methods; We're just not in the rink. I'm not saying there's some secret code she has, but she is definitely doing something beyond just being super strict with drilling and weighing. If it were as simple as drilling students hard and giving them weight limits, Buyanova would have more success than she does
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2014
Thank you! Do you know if she has plans to compete this season? Last time she did was in 2017-2018.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2014
I think so.
It Alina ever leaves Eteri for another coach this message board will meltdown.
Never say never.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2018
To what others have said to that (esp. colormyworld240 and Happy Skates I would addd this. I don't think Eteri would care about what her students eat as long as can keep weight within some limits. And, as for the strictness, e. g. Raf is quite similar to Eteri in this. One particular case - about two years ago he said brutally honestly to Mariah Bell that he will no longer train her because she is 20 already, she has no big success and no perspective, but, if she wants, she can skate somewhere in the corner and he will check sometimes. This is the method "either it will motivate you or you will leave". And she was able to withstand that and made some improvement (probably after some time to overcome the shock). So, we can talk about strictness, but that is not the word that would describe it completely, there must be more than that always. There is plenty strict coaches but only a few have such success as Eteri or Raf. They must be good psychologists as well, to know that they can say some hars words but only in the amount that will motivate the athletes to do more. Of course that doesn't work with everybody, but just like Alina has said recently, " patting over my back doesn't work for me" (or somethig like that). There are those who need to be flattered to do more, but there are also those who need to hear some harsh words.
