2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[nussnacker]

It was nothing but condescending from Christine Brennan because she doesn't like Russia or Russian figure skating. Everything she writes as politically motivated. She is a well-known journalist and should not be referring to athletes as nicknames. If fans want to do that that's their business but they're fans not well-known journalists.

In that context and given she's a journalist, it is indeed strange from a professional with her own platform to do that.
edit: we do however have some other rather controversial journalists in Russia too, who tend to disrespect skaters as well *cough* Vaitsekhovskaya *cough*

 

[vesperalvioletta]

I'm happy to see Alina's jumps looking much more natural in that cobbled together SP video. I'm hoping that she's finished growing and finally getting some relief from the Osgood-Schlatters. I bet that will be a huge help to her consistency.

 

[Tolstoj]

In that context and given she's a journalist, it is indeed strange from a professional with her own platform to do that.
edit: we do however have some other rather controversial journalists in Russia too, who tend to disrespect skaters as well *cough* Vaitsekhovskaya *cough*

That weird russian journalist who asked all inconvenient questions to Alexei Krasnozhon about sexuality.

It reminds me of Tara Lipinski when she was 13-14. Landing all her tiny jumps consistently, but like a million crossovers to get across the ice. She wasn't comparable to the more mature and stronger skaters. It is probably something you just have to see live to see how striking a Tarakanova versus Liu skating is. The judges will have a dilemma, whether to go with tiny jumps with 3a and 4Z, or just a skater with huge jumps, speed, ice coverage, etc. I wish I could go to Lake Placid but I'm going to be in NY a few weeks later and I just can't justify two trips to NY that close together. If the RFed wants to give the judges the "Anti-Alysa" to judge in a competition, Tarakanova is probably their best bet. She is mostly consistent and when she's on, she's VERRRRRY awesome.

I have rewatched her SRN LP so many times. SO strong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_Ww7jFJgeI&t=277s
She definitely needs more refinement, get control of her flailing arms, and Panova is very good with that. But the ingredients are all there for success.

I don't know, in a way i think RusFed is cool with that. In the past they used to be more ballsy, like season 2015-16 US was really trying to push Gracie Gold as their best skater going into Worlds in Boston, and i remember RusFed sending Medvedeva as their best newcomer at Skate America no problem which was extremely risky but it paid off. With that mentality you'd think Valieva would be listed for JGP Lake Placid if they really don't want Alysa Liu to win.

As for Alysa, i hope the whole team is looking at long term goals, because there is not a lot of depth among the american junior ladies right now, it's a bit of a one and done, so don't push it too hard now because we're still at the beginning, it's a long journey.

 

[colormyworld240]

I agree with this post and colormyworld's. Aliona has many great qualities: sublime skating skills, probably the best posture of all current (and possibly past skaters), an innate elegance. Out of the 3A, she was the first one to catch my eye. However, as I watched more of her performances and compared her to Anna and Sasha, I realized Aliona seems somewhat flat in her interpretation, kind of like an ice queen. When I watch Anna, I see much more emotion and warmth in her skating. It may be due to Aliona's music- I think her modern-ish lyrical pieces have become rather one note, and I hope she will get more varied pieces of music to interpret. I think the Eyes on Fire piece has great potential and I look forward to seeing her artistry/interpretation grow with it.

That's the thing. When you first look at Alena, her skating is beautiful. The posture is sublime, and she's so smooth and quick across the ice. You can notice this without music. But then you look at the performance as a whole, the interpretation of music. And that's when I realized the performance isn't there. It's just beautiful moves and lines - her arms are very pretty - but it has nothing to do with the music. There is no change in tension or variation in her upper body to respond to the music; it just looks like it's on one level through the entire performance and to me it looks flat. And her face is blank for most of it as well. I don't think it's the lyrical programs that are a problem (although it certainly is more difficult to interpret than a dramatic piece). But Alina's POTO was lyrical and there was variation in expression. And of course, Kostner is known for lyrical programs but the intention of each move is clear and she has a masterful performance.

That's why I think the Twilight program might be good for Alena. It provides her with more than just a one dimensional lyrical skate that we've seen over and over. Hopefully she'll embrace the character well in the program. I think she understands it too, as she's spoken about liking Twilight. While I think the film was ridiculous (even though I like Stewart as an actress - just not in the saga), it'll give Alena the opportunity to improve. Musicality, however, is something I believe to be difficult to improve on. You either have it or you don't. Alena's skating skills do help her mask the lack of it. Not enough if you watch multiple performances. But if you watch the dance videos of Anna and Alina, it's clear they are much more musical than Alena. Anna has musicality like the she's been touched by the musicality god himself. She never spots responding to the music, and even the falls don't make her miss a beat and the performance never suffers. The JGPF SP still had the best performance even though she made huge mistakes. The performance only falls when the program is over. Sasha is also very musical in the modern pieces.

Apart from skating skills, what is going for Alena is her spins. She's flexible, centred, and quick. She flows between positions effortlessly. I think Alina's spins are beautiful as well, but even those at nowhere close to Alena's.

 

[colormyworld240]

Do we really think judges' scores reflect reality so accurately? If that's the case, why does Tarakanova receive such low PCS compared to other ladies? Are her skating skills really that bad?

Judges generally don't seem to like her. Regardless of her coach, Eteri or Plushenko, she never scored the highest in SS amongst the Russians. And the individual judges from each country agree. It's strange but her talent isn't appreciated nationally or internationally. Maybe they just don't like her style.

 

[Finley]

I think we should just start to call “Zag“ and “Med“ ”that one skater person who won the gold/silver in that mildly important competition somewhere in Asia“

This reminds me TAT's tv interview after Worlds. She talked about the achievements of the Russian girls - Evgenia, Zagitova and the girl who is coached by Mishin.

I wish I was kidding.

She still continues to refer to Alina as Zagitova, even in her latest interview, when she was asked about her invitation to visit the Japanese Prime Minister. The one where she said "of course she was happy for Zagitova, why wouldn't she be happy? We are all happy to go wherever we are invited as long as it isn't prison."

My favorite comment under that interview - "Alina. Her name is Alina." I guess we should just all be glad TAT refers to her by even one of her names.

I don't think using TAT, Med, Zag, Tuk, Yuzu, etc. is disrespectful in the least.

Anybody here remember Yelena Zamolodchakova? Russian Gymnast at the Sydney Games who won several medals, (floor and vault I think). She had the best nick name of all time - ZAMO!

I think Sophia should start going by "Samo". It might increase the chance of TAT remembering who she is.

 

[vesperalvioletta]

Judges generally don't seem to like her. Regardless of her coach, Eteri or Plushenko, she never scored the highest in SS amongst the Russians. And the individual judges from each country agree. It's strange but her talent isn't appreciated nationally or internationally. Maybe they just don't like her style.

I hope this is something that changes as Nastya matures. I didn't care for her skating during her junior debut season because, despite the fact that I admired her passion, she could kind of be an unpolished mess and that distracted from the underlying quality.

The beginning of last season was much the same, but then out of nowhere her FS performance at Russian Nationals was like seeing an entirely different skater. She's still a little rough around the edges, but she's made major strides in the past year.

 

[SkateSkates]

I respect others opinions on Alena’s performance and interpretation but disagree wholeheartedly. IMO she does an excellent job of interpreting the music with her entire body, and uses her face in a not over-the-top way. She reminds me of Mao in this regard and many other ways - great SS, effortless transitions, beautiful posture and positions, and full use of the body to interpret music. Many people found Mao’s facial expressions too subtle as well, so I guess it’s just my personal taste.

I see a big different in her intense stare throughout Adios Noninos, her steely ice queen expression in 2nd part of her angel SP and her romantic/emotional expressions in Romeo + Juliet. I do think her angelic expressions throughout her Stella’s theme LP and the 1st half of her angel SP are similar. And what we’ve seen of her vampire program is very different than before - much more over the top - which is what I’m afraid of. She doesn’t need to rely on over the top over acting to get the message of her programs across, IMO. Her excellent body awareness allows her to interpret music in ways that is unique to her and nobody else in the field today can do it like her.

That said, I do think Anna does an excellent job of interpreting music with her face, as does Alina. Those 3 are very different in their approach to interpretation. All are very good but unique in their own ways.

 

[LiamForeman]

Judges generally don't seem to like her. Regardless of her coach, Eteri or Plushenko, she never scored the highest in SS amongst the Russians. And the individual judges from each country agree. It's strange but her talent isn't appreciated nationally or internationally. Maybe they just don't like her style.

I was very concerned when she moved to Plushy. He's all dramatic arms and poses and less choreo and body interpretation. She's now at Panova who is very good at less arms and more presentation.

 

[nussnacker]

This reminds me TAT's tv interview after Worlds. She talked about the achievements of the Russian girls - Evgenia, Zagitova and the girl who is coached by Mishin.

I wish I was kidding.

Don't forget that epic quote, where she said why Eteri wasn't at JWC: "Eteri's at home, training her Zagitova"
TAT sometimes... produces some epic quotes.

 

[Happy Skates]

K. Sinitsyna and A. Tarakanova have been assigned to JGP Lake Placid.

Maybe I'm being a bit cynical but I think this might be due to Panova having no political influence, not confidence in these two girls. They know that Alysa is going to be there with her infinitely high BV, so I find it interesting that they put up, imo, two of the strongest juniors. This makes me kind of nervous too because I really want both Sinitsyna and Tarakanova to be in the final (and Alysa too), but one of the three has to get bronze here. And if Alysa does well, she'll likely beat at least one of them if we don't see some big tech upgrades from both. And a bronze from Sinitsyna or Tarakanova likely means no second event. Both of them are at least 2 JGP worthy skaters. In fact, in any other country Tarakanova would have at least one senior GP . Hopefully it all works out for the best somehow. It would be somewhat of a let down for Tarakanova to not get a second event having been in the final twice and medalled at the final once, and for Sinitsyna being the junior world 4th place finisher. Anyways, I can't help but feel that the Snow Leopards girls have been sacrificed in a way, having to compete against Alysa and being the only ones to have to travel that far across the world.

 

[Finley]

That's the thing. When you first look at Alena, her skating is beautiful. The posture is sublime, and she's so smooth and quick across the ice. You can notice this without music. But then you look at the performance as a whole, the interpretation of music. And that's when I realized the performance isn't there. It's just beautiful moves and lines - her arms are very pretty - but it has nothing to do with the music. There is no change in tension or variation in her upper body to respond to the music; it just looks like it's on one level through the entire performance and to me it looks flat. And her face is blank for most of it as well. I don't think it's the lyrical programs that are a problem (although it certainly is more difficult to interpret than a dramatic piece). But Alina's POTO was lyrical and there was variation in expression. And of course, Kostner is known for lyrical programs but the intention of each move is clear and she has a masterful performance.

That's why I think the Twilight program might be good for Alena. It provides her with more than just a one dimensional lyrical skate that we've seen over and over. Hopefully she'll embrace the character well in the program. I think she understands it too, as she's spoken about liking Twilight. While I think the film was ridiculous (even though I like Stewart as an actress - just not in the saga), it'll give Alena the opportunity to improve. Musicality, however, is something I believe to be difficult to improve on. You either have it or you don't. Alena's skating skills do help her mask the lack of it. Not enough if you watch multiple performances. But if you watch the dance videos of Anna and Alina, it's clear they are much more musical than Alena. Anna has musicality like the she's been touched by the musicality god himself. She never spots responding to the music, and even the falls don't make her miss a beat and the performance never suffers. The JGPF SP still had the best performance even though she made huge mistakes. The performance only falls when the program is over. Sasha is also very musical in the modern pieces.

Apart from skating skills, what is going for Alena is her spins. She's flexible, centred, and quick. She flows between positions effortlessly. I think Alina's spins are beautiful as well, but even those at nowhere close to Alena's.

I agree, Alena is breathtaking!

One thing you have to give Alina credit for is getting the job done on her spins. I'll quote Dave Lease from TSL on this one - Even though she completely bombed her long program at Rus Nats she got every level on her spins.

I think it is part of her mentality of never giving up on her program no matter how badly it is going. Daniil talked about that in his interview with Emma.

 

[ec00834]

That's the thing. When you first look at Alena, her skating is beautiful. The posture is sublime, and she's so smooth and quick across the ice. You can notice this without music. But then you look at the performance as a whole, the interpretation of music. And that's when I realized the performance isn't there. It's just beautiful moves and lines - her arms are very pretty - but it has nothing to do with the music. There is no change in tension or variation in her upper body to respond to the music; it just looks like it's on one level through the entire performance and to me it looks flat. And her face is blank for most of it as well. I don't think it's the lyrical programs that are a problem (although it certainly is more difficult to interpret than a dramatic piece). But Alina's POTO was lyrical and there was variation in expression. And of course, Kostner is known for lyrical programs but the intention of each move is clear and she has a masterful performance.

That's why I think the Twilight program might be good for Alena. It provides her with more than just a one dimensional lyrical skate that we've seen over and over. Hopefully she'll embrace the character well in the program. I think she understands it too, as she's spoken about liking Twilight. While I think the film was ridiculous (even though I like Stewart as an actress - just not in the saga), it'll give Alena the opportunity to improve. Musicality, however, is something I believe to be difficult to improve on. You either have it or you don't. Alena's skating skills do help her mask the lack of it. Not enough if you watch multiple performances. But if you watch the dance videos of Anna and Alina, it's clear they are much more musical than Alena. Anna has musicality like the she's been touched by the musicality god himself. She never spots responding to the music, and even the falls don't make her miss a beat and the performance never suffers. The JGPF SP still had the best performance even though she made huge mistakes. The performance only falls when the program is over. Sasha is also very musical in the modern pieces.

Apart from skating skills, what is going for Alena is her spins. She's flexible, centred, and quick. She flows between positions effortlessly. I think Alina's spins are beautiful as well, but even those at nowhere close to Alena's.

I agree, Alena didn't seem to have many facial expressions during her programs last season, though all her other good qualities made up for it. I personally think the music from Alena's and Anna's SPs were pretty similar (both lovely piano music) but Anna showed much more emotion in her program while Alena seemed to have the same face throughout.

 

[nussnacker]

That weird russian journalist who asked all inconvenient questions to Alexei Krasnozhon about sexuality.

She is. You know what she said about Alina's WC performances this year?
"Alina was dragging herself to the finish line like a plane with only one wing functioning"
:roll9:

 

[Seruleane]

I respect others opinions on Alena’s performance and interpretation but disagree wholeheartedly. IMO she does an excellent job of interpreting the music with her entire body, and uses her face in a not over-the-top way. She reminds me of Mao in this regard and many other ways - great SS, effortless transitions, beautiful posture and positions, and full use of the body to interpret music. Many people found Mao’s facial expressions too subtle as well, so I guess it’s just my personal taste.

I see a big different in her intense stare throughout Adios Noninos, her steely ice queen expression in 2nd part of her angel SP and her romantic/emotional expressions in Romeo + Juliet. I do think her angelic expressions throughout her Stella’s theme LP and the 1st half of her angel SP are similar. And what we’ve seen of her vampire program is very different than before - much more over the top - which is what I’m afraid of. She doesn’t need to rely on over the top over acting to get the message of her programs across, IMO. Her excellent body awareness allows her to interpret music in ways that is unique to her and nobody else in the field today can do it like her.

That said, I do think Anna does an excellent job of interpreting music with her face, as does Alina. Those 3 are very different in their approach to interpretation. All are very good but unique in their own ways.

I think it can be a matter of personal taste. I really like there to be a natural, emotional connection between the skaters and the music, and just don't always see it in Aliona's skating. Maybe it is because everything always looks so perfect. That is my critique of Satoko as well, actually. It looks too perfect, too rehearsed. And to be clear, my comments above are not meant to disparage Aliona in any way. She is a beautiful skater, and it's hard to find something to critique about her. The usual "sloppy skating skills, posture, flailing arms" - well she has none of those issues. She is still a very young skater though, and has room to grow on interpretation. Give her time and the right programs, and I'm sure she will.

 

[colormyworld240]

I hope this is something that changes as Nastya matures. I didn't care for her skating during her junior debut season because, despite the fact that I admired her passion, she could kind of be an unpolished mess and that distracted from the underlying quality.

The beginning of last season was much the same, but then out of nowhere her FS performance at Russian Nationals was like seeing an entirely different skater. She's still a little rough around the edges, but she's made major strides in the past year.

I think the unpolished mess is actually one of her qualities, though. I can see why some people don't like it; if you prefer more elegant "womanly" performances, she isn't going to be for you. Likewise, there are some people (no judges, apparently) that prefer her extreme fire and passion passion to classical elegance. But I think it's her style, and I would love that she embraces it instead of morphing into a style that isn't her to fit the classical female skater stereotypes - may not be the correct word.

I don't think she looks sloppy. Her debut seasons SP I thought showcased her style well, but the judges didn't like that. Hopefully it does change and she can skate the way she wants, but it's unlikely because her scores from her first and second season don't show very much improvement, meaning the judges don't see any and probably still sees her as and unpolished mess.

It's like a lot of classical and even lyrical and contemporary dancers sees hip hop dancing and others like breakdancing as a mess because it lacks the polish. I did. And then I tried to take hip hop classes and it turns out I was the unpolished mess. I think maybe the same thoughts are also engrained into figure skating.

 

[Finley]

Don't forget that epic quote, where she said why Eteri wasn't at JWC: "Eteri's at home, training her Zagitova"
TAT sometimes... produces some epic quotes.

Yeah. TAT leaves Brennan, TSL and that other interviewer whose name I can't spell and don't care enough to google*, in the dust with her shade.

It used to bug me to no end. Now its almost impossible to care anymore. All you can do is laugh.

*no disrespect intended. I'm just lazy.

 

[Finley]

She is. You know what she said about Alina's WC performances this year?
"Alina was dragging herself to the finish line like a plane with only one wing functioning"
:roll9:

Omg, I had forgotten that!

So Alina, with one wing, limping toward the finish line, was over 10 points better than everyone else? Since she managed to skate two clean programs with her one wing, what does that say about the skaters she beat? hwell:

Hopefully, Alina can get that wing repaired this season! Maybe we can finally expect great things!

 

[colormyworld240]

I respect others opinions on Alena’s performance and interpretation but disagree wholeheartedly. IMO she does an excellent job of interpreting the music with her entire body, and uses her face in a not over-the-top way. She reminds me of Mao in this regard and many other ways - great SS, effortless transitions, beautiful posture and positions, and full use of the body to interpret music. Many people found Mao’s facial expressions too subtle as well, so I guess it’s just my personal taste.

I see a big different in her intense stare throughout Adios Noninos, her steely ice queen expression in 2nd part of her angel SP and her romantic/emotional expressions in Romeo + Juliet. I do think her angelic expressions throughout her Stella’s theme LP and the 1st half of her angel SP are similar. And what we’ve seen of her vampire program is very different than before - much more over the top - which is what I’m afraid of. She doesn’t need to rely on over the top over acting to get the message of her programs across, IMO. Her excellent body awareness allows her to interpret music in ways that is unique to her and nobody else in the field today can do it like her.

That said, I do think Anna does an excellent job of interpreting music with her face, as does Alina. Those 3 are very different in their approach to interpretation. All are very good but unique in their own ways.

We can agree to disagree with Alena . But the tango SP I think is her best program and performance.

I agree that Alina interprets with her face, and to a lesser extent her body. But I think Anna actually uses her body to interpret music, like when she gets on her toe to hit the high points of the music in her choreography, when she folds her arms up and lowers her posture when she's skating between elements in time with the changes in the music, and when she does her transitions to gain speed into an element as the music crescendos. Of course, if she had Alena's skating skills to change speed, this would be even better. Anna's facial expressions are excellent, but I think they only add to the performance, but doesn't make it like her body movements.

 

[kalee]

Good point, I think USFS will be backing Alysa at least at her junior international debut, they kinda have to, she’s a senior national champion after all.

Tarakanova, if I remember correctly, had some problems with combos in her jgp stage last year.
She either missed a second jump, or doubled it in the short.

For both of her JGP SP's last year, Tarakanova doubled her 2nd jump. She had outstanding quality otherwise and therefore still managed to score around 65 points both times, but still it was rather precarious. Thankfully she managed to get back the 3-3 in the short by Nationals.