2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Ziotic]

Please don't get me started on this topic. It's very upsetting. I'm not saying smaller countries should be excluded they should not be excluded they should be included but not at the detriment to having the best a most deserving performers out there. When Canada for instance loses two of its three worlds spots for the ladies one of those should go to Russia and maybe one to Japan. I will never put figure skating on the same level as tennis or golf because in tennis and golf you earn everything you earned your ranking and it means something. Not so much in figure skating.

Doesn't the Olympics have like 30 or more entries for all four figure skating disciplines? They could certainly add another couple spots or offer wild cards to defending Olympic Champions who have maintained a certain criteria or ranking. But trying to get the international skating Union to do something to reward those who've earned it most is like spitting into the wind or swimming against the current.

Canada only lost 1 of its 3 places, it still has 2 for ladies.

It’s perhaps more appropriate to make mention of Kazakhstan which has 3 spot?? And one woman with TES to compete...

 

[LenaRadiFan]

Please don't get me started on this topic. It's very upsetting. I'm not saying smaller countries should be excluded they should not be excluded they should be included but not at the detriment to having the best a most deserving performers out there. When Canada for instance loses two of its three worlds spots for the ladies one of those should go to Russia and maybe one to Japan. I will never put figure skating on the same level as tennis or golf because in tennis and golf you earn everything you earned your ranking and it means something. Not so much in figure skating.

Doesn't the Olympics have like 30 or more entries for all four figure skating disciplines? They could certainly add another couple spots or offer wild cards to defending Olympic Champions who have maintained a certain criteria or ranking. But trying to get the international skating Union to do something to reward those who've earned it most is like spitting into the wind or swimming against the current.

IMO they should be some sort of rule that the winners of 4cc and Europeans should get a 'free pass' on top of their countried normal spots for worlds. I think this would be the only way to reward a in depth country like russia at the moment with an extra spot.

Just giving russia 1 or 2 more spots just because they have depth doesn't seem fair from my perspective, just out of the reason that you then would need to decide when a country actually deserves extra spots. Like if hypothetically those extra spots would be granted, but russia had one really bad season, how would you decide if they'd get them next time or not? The rules are the rules and sometimes they don't appear fair, but we also have to keep in mind and ask ourselves the question: would the same kind of mindset still be uphold if another country would get those extra spots?

 

[Vandevska]

Well, then it's also important to give a spot to the winner of GPF

 

[ruga]

I heard the idea of giving spots by how many skaters qualify to GPF. Say, if the country has earned 2 spots during Worlds and 3 skaters qualify, then they get one additional spot. It could go up to 6. No spots would be taken from smaller feds, just a possibility of a few added entries.

 

[Jontor]

In alpine skiing there is max 4 spots per country + the champion from the last championship

 

[LiamForeman]

Well, then it's also important to give a spot to the winner of GPF

I'll go further than that. If someone qualifies for the GPF, they should automatically be qualified to the Worlds. That would be a good first step. That's just one extra flight of skaters. No big deal.

 

[Vandevska]

I'll go further than that. If someone qualifies for the GPF, they should automatically be qualified to the Worlds. That would be a good first step. That's just one extra flight of skaters. No big deal.

Good idea. Tbh, I have much more respect for GPF skaters since they truly qualified on their own merits. I hope one day it'll have the same recognition as worlds. For example, the GPF winner gets recognized as much as the Worlds winner.

 

[Mathman]

I think there is a very powerful historical reason why the ISU is not eager to move in the direction of adding extra spots to the world championships, etc. That is, for good or for ill, international figure skating is organized by, of, and for National Federations, not individual skaters. No individual skater is a "member" of the International Skating Union -- only National Federations are. When Alina Zagitova wins the world championship she does not earn any next-year spots for Alina Zagitova -- she earns spots for the Russian Federation.

The only way for this organizational mind-set to change is for the National Federations sitting on ISU councils to vote themselves to a diminished status.

Although, never say never. The rise in prestige of the Grand Prix may push the sport in the direction of greater reward for individual accomplishment independent of nationality.

 

[Fluture]

https://www.instagram.com/p/B1Bl8kgpwcm/?igshid=1j8r9f58266ia

There finally is an English translation to that one big interview Alina gave back in May or so.

 

[LiamForeman]

I think there is a very powerful historical reason why the ISU is not eager to move in the direction of adding extra spots to the world championships, etc. That is, for good or for ill, international figure skating is organized by, of, and for National Federations, not individual skaters. No individual skater is a "member" of the International Skating Union -- only National Federations are. When Alina Zagitova wins the world championship she does not earn any next-year spots for Alina Zagitova -- she earns spots for the Russian Federation.

The only way for this organizational mind-set to change is for the National Federations sitting on ISU councils to vote themselves to a diminished status.

Although, never say never. The rise in prestige of the Grand Prix may push the sport in the direction of greater reward for individual accomplishment independent of nationality.

I agree. Basically the Federations will have to decide if they want the best World Championships or have greater overall representation of all countries. Because conceivably Russia could take up 9 spots at Worlds if GPF finalists are automatically entered, and good luck for the other Feds to earn enough/extra spots with that... So if Russia has to farm out their B and C teams to former Soviet countries, so be it. Same difference, really. Kazakhstan has two empty spots right now. If I were a B or C lister I'd be on the phone with the Kazakh federation, and just accept my fate that I wouldn't be representing Russia internationally and be pro-active. The Olympics are only two and a half years away. Unless you are a 4A, Valieva, possibly Usacheva, you won't be going to the Olympics for Russia. Be smart. I think Samodurova should consider another country too, even though she's been successful up to this point.

 

[SkateSkates]

I also wish more skaters could earn extra spots. I believe I have proposed both of these options in the past:

1. All medalists of the GPF have an automatic spot (in addition to a country’s quota)
Or
2. Gold medalists of GPF, Euros and 4CC have an automatic spot.

This season scenario 1 would have allowed Alina and Liza to qualify via GPF and Sofia, Evgenia and Stasya to qualify via the quota. For Japan, Rika would have qualified via GPF and Kaori, Satoko and Mai via quota.

For scenario 2, Sofia qualifies from Euros and Alina, Evgenia and Liza qualify for the 3 quotas (no Stasya). Rika qualifies via GPF. She wins 4CC too but is already qualified so no additional entry for Japan - Kaori, Satoko and Mai also qualify.

Either way, Russia gets 1-2 additional spots and Japan gets 1 additional spot. Seems fair to me. I know there’s the argument about representation from many countries, but everyone can still participate in the SP. it just means that the last 2-3 who qualified for the FS wouldn’t make it. Would this really be so bad? Isn’t it better to have stronger skaters like Liza and Mai at the event, making it more competitive? In my opinion, yes, but. I understand some may not agree.

 

[Vandevska]

I also wish more skaters could earn extra spots. I believe I have proposed both of these options in the past:

1. All medalists of the GPF have an automatic spot (in addition to a country’s quota)
Or
2. Gold medalists of GPF, Euros and 4CC have an automatic spot.

This season scenario 1 would have allowed Alina and Liza to qualify via GPF and Sofia, Evgenia and Stasya to qualify via the quota. For Japan, Rika would have qualified via GPF and Kaori, Satoko and Mai via quota.

For scenario 2, Sofia qualifies from Euros and Alina, Evgenia and Liza qualify for the 3 quotas (no Stasya). Rika qualifies via GPF. She wins 4CC too but is already qualified so no additional entry for Japan - Kaori, Satoko and Mai also qualify.

Either way, Russia gets 1-2 additional spots and Japan gets 1 additional spot. Seems fair to me. I know there’s the argument about representation from many countries, but everyone can still participate in the SP. it just means that the last 2-3 who qualified for the FS wouldn’t make it. Would this really be so bad? Isn’t it better to have stronger skaters like Liza and Mai at the event, making it more competitive? In my opinion, yes, but. I understand some may not agree.

And this way it's also more exciting.

 

[ruga]

But as mentioned for that federations would have to vote for diminishing their influence which is not going to happen. Also skaters' preparation from season to season can be wildly different (e.g. Tuktamysheva in 14/15 and 15/16 seasons). For now increasing the number of spots for federations would be possible. I also don't like how it depends on one competition that took place one year ago. I wish GP series or season's best scores also had some influence.

 

[ramed]

I agree. Basically the Federations will have to decide if they want the best World Championships or have greater overall representation of all countries. Because conceivably Russia could take up 9 spots at Worlds if GPF finalists are automatically entered, and good luck for the other Feds to earn enough/extra spots with that... So if Russia has to farm out their B and C teams to former Soviet countries, so be it. Same difference, really. Kazakhstan has two empty spots right now. If I were a B or C lister I'd be on the phone with the Kazakh federation, and just accept my fate that I wouldn't be representing Russia internationally and be pro-active. The Olympics are only two and a half years away. Unless you are a 4A, Valieva, possibly Usacheva, you won't be going to the Olympics for Russia. Be smart. I think Samodurova should consider another country too, even though she's been successful up to this point.

At first glance this approach may sound good but these skaters need an established infrastructure (coaching teams, rinks, off-season shows etc.) which doesn't exist much beyond Russia. As soon as they start representing another country, they need sponsors who will pay for their training in Russia. The question is, how many of those foreign feds are even ready to help finding such sponsors, let alone bring their own money... Even in Kazakhstan, with all the petrodollars, the local fed doesn't finance Liza Tursynbayeva - afaik, that's entirely her parents' own efforts to bring her the sponsors.

 

[ancientpeas]

Historically Women's skating would have been 50% American ladies and everyone else. For the sport to grow in other countries you have give them the opportunity to compete and place.

I go back to my pet idea: Expand the GPF to 12 and increase its prestige and leave the world selection process alone.

 

[zounger]

I don't see any reason to rise the spots per country .

 

[dante]

Personally, I like the GP much more than the championships, because it's a long-lasting serial that gives me the oppportunity to learn more about different athletes, and its results are more dependant on skills and consistency than luck or bureaucrats' favor.

So if Russia has to farm out their B and C teams to former Soviet countries, so be it. Same difference, really. Kazakhstan has two empty spots right now. If I were a B or C lister I'd be on the phone with the Kazakh federation, and just accept my fate that I wouldn't be representing Russia internationally and be pro-active.

The Eastern Bloc vs. the North Atlantic Alliance vs. the Asia-Pacific Agreement. They will eventually end up in an all-out legal war in the Court of Arbitration for Sport, that will conclude with a treaty on the non-proliferation of sports.

the local fed doesn't finance Liza Tursynbayeva - afaik, that's entirely her parents' own efforts to bring her the sponsors.

I'm surprised to hear this. I hope this has changed after Liza brought more interest in this sports to Kazakhstan.

 

[Amei]

At first glance this approach may sound good but these skaters need an established infrastructure (coaching teams, rinks, off-season shows etc.) which doesn't exist much beyond Russia. As soon as they start representing another country, they need sponsors who will pay for their training in Russia. The question is, how many of those foreign feds are even ready to help finding such sponsors, let alone bring their own money... Even in Kazakhstan, with all the petrodollars, the local fed doesn't finance Liza Tursynbayeva - afaik, that's entirely her parents' own efforts to bring her the sponsors.

I started wondering a bit about this after Tursynbayeva won bronze over Medvedeva; if that continues to happen or more of the "B/C Team" (as they are getting referred to in this thread) start competing for other countries and continue/start to take medals away from Russia - would Russia consider putting a rule in place like they did prior to Sochi that banned Russian coaches from coaching non-Russian athletes.

 

[Mawwerg]

I see problem there aren't any top tournaments after GPF and Nationals. So the competitive season is really just 4 monthes long(5 for US as their nationals are in January). After it qualified skaters are preparing for nationals while for others there are nothing to do.

 

[ruga]

I see problem there aren't any top tournaments after GPF and Nationals. So the competitive season is really just 4 monthes long(5 for US as their nationals are in January). After it qualified skaters are preparing for nationals while for others there are nothing to do.

I agree, I wish Challengers could expand to right before Worlds. There are quite a few popular international tournaments already that take place later in the season, so why not make them count for Season's Best.

And I also would like to see GPF expanded to 12 for singles (8 and 10 for pairs and dance). It's very logical as each GP event has 12 entries. Today GPF is a very short competition and is not taken very seriously compared to Euros or 4CC even if the field is as strong or even stronger than in Worlds. As mentioned, it could give a possibility to give more spots to stronger feds without taking opportunities from smaller countries.