2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[nussnacker]

Since the free skate has officially ended we are now allowed to discuss it! I'll just say that Evgenia has got one of the most amazing costumes I have ever seen. Satomi really did her best with her kimono.

The 2nd place is not bad considering that the gold medalist landed 3 clean triple axels. I'm happy Zhenya delivered a much better performance than last week. Many people were worried how two important skates that close would affect her, but she really didn't mind it seems.

It's also worth mentioning that Technical Panel was pretty strict at ACl. Evgenia got an e and a ! for each of her lutzes plus two underrotations.

Now good luck to the six Russian ladies competing tomorrow!

I don’t mind the work of the TP, but judging panel seems to be quite generous. ! call still landed +3 goe 2 times in a row, and 3Lze<, which you think will get double the punishment still got +1 from one of the judges....
I mean, I was expecting the punishments for edges to be a little less than last year, but not really to this degree.

Calling Rika’s 3A UR resulted in 0 goe, so not even negative, and Medvedeva got only -0.09.
It felt like Eunsoo was judged harsher on her URs compared to the two
Skaters from Lombardia also got way higher punishments for lesser mistakes seems like.

In General UR calls get GOEs that are all over the place. So Rika got 0 to -3 (mostly -1) on her second one, which means judges thought that without the > (which is -1 -2), Rika‘s combo earned 0 for most. Same applies to Anna, in her case apparently her Lz-Lo was 0 in goe. I don’t know, the judging is soooo weird.

 

[nussnacker]

Eunsoo had uncalled [f]lutzes that received decent +GOEs. Blame’s absolutely not on her but the Technical Panel. But the narrative you’re trying to create doesn’t reflect what happened.

I’m not creating ANY narrative around skaters, ms. Evgenia Fan and I don’t care about that, I’m talking only about the marks panels are giving and about the panels only.
They seem to judge events weirdly, the marking for the same thing (such as UR and <) seems to be all over the place, for men and women.

P.S. how nice of you to throw Eunsoo under the bus lmao... talking about uncalled flutzes try to remember who else had 3 flutzes here

 

[NoviceFan]

i’m not creating any narrative around skaters .

lol.

 

[nussnacker]

lol.

Im sorry i hurt your feelings
I will be careful with expressing my observations not to hurt anyone‘s feelings

 

[NoviceFan]

Im sorry i hurt your feelings
I will be careful with expressing my observations not to hurt anyone‘s feelings

:agree: better yet, try having a sense of self-awareness. :agree:

 

[nussnacker]

:agree: better yet, try having a sense of self-awareness. :agree:

Thanks for your advice, kind woman!
Never thought nice people like you exist on this planet!

Saying anything about judging and edge calls is very dangerous among some fans, I was afraid to bring it up before, because I thought I’d get attacked by people like you. And look what happened, just that!

Self awareness maybe goes as far as ... not taking comments about judging so personally.

 

[NoviceFan]

Thanks for your advice, kind woman!
Never thought nice people like you exist on this planet!

Saying anything about judging and edge calls is very dangerous among some fans, I was afraid to bring it up before, because I thought I’d get attacked by people like you. And look what happened, just that!

I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings! I think a person who dishes it out the way you do could take it. I was talking about what happened that didn’t align with what you were saying. I definitely didn’t take things personally LOL - I don’t even know you how will I take anything you say personally.

What I was trying to say was that it was wrong to assert that Eunsoo was judged harsher than the other two who scored higher than her. She was not. She got away with two [f]lutzes that received +GOEs. Also, I’m not “throwing her under the bus” - like you I am engaging in a discussion about the technical aspects of the competition she participated in.

 

[nussnacker]

I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings! I think a person who dishes it out the way you do could take it.

What I was trying to say was that it was wrong to assert that Eunsoo was judged harsher than the other two who scored higher than her. She was not. She got away with two [f]lutzes that received +GOEs.

It’s not about Eunsoo at all, I’m not trying to single out her here. Okay, TP missed her edges, which resulted in good goes. I’m talking about the goe discrepancies with the calls. Was Eunsoo given a ! would she receive +3 goe anyway, cause that was what she got for jump that was deemed clean. I’m talking about the effect of calls on the marks (not about particular skaters). Why did Rika‘s URs result in completely different punishments for 3A and 3Lz? The first one was +1 -1, the other one -3 0. what was the difference between those two?

 

[NoviceFan]

It’s not about Eunsoo at all, I’m not trying to single out her here. Okay, TP missed her edges, which resulted in good goes. I’m talking about the goe discrepancies with the calls. Was Eunsoo given a ! would she receive +3 goe anyway, cause that was what she got for jump that was deemed clean. I’m talking about the effect of calls on the marks (not about particular skaters). Why did Rika‘s URs result in completely different punishments for 3A and 3Lz? The first one was +1 -1, the other one -3 0. what was the difference between those two?

But that’s missing the forest for the trees. I don’t know why we need to speculate about whether one, two or more judges would have given her +3 for a lutz!, when she literally didn’t receive a call and resulted in overall +GOEs.

 

[nussnacker]

But that’s missing the forest for the trees. I don’t know why we need to speculate about whether one, two or more judges would have given her +3 for a lutz!, when she literally didn’t receive a call and resulted in overall +GOEs.

Mmmkay, the should’ve called Eunsoo‘s edges (if that’s what you want to hear), and while we’re on the topic, they should’ve called Evgenia‘s edges properly too.

Regardless of that, still +3 goes for ! calls and 0 for URs here seems like a bit generous for me. Others might think it’s fair, I don’t agree with that, I didn’t expect the panels to be giving out points like that. That’s all I had to say.

 

[NoviceFan]

Mmmkay, the should’ve called Eunsoo‘s edges (if that’s what you want to hear), and while we’re on the topic, they should’ve called Evgenia‘s edges properly too.

Regardless of that, still +3 goes for ! calls and 0 for URs here seems like a bit generous for me. Others might think it’s fair, I don’t agree with that, I didn’t expect the panels to be giving out points like that. That’s all I had to say.

LOL, why would you think it would offer any comfort to me that you’d say that? I was literally telling you your assertion was wrong when you said Eunsoo was judged harsher. That’s really all I was saying. Just fact checking.

Additional thoughts on UR GOEs - UR jumps already receive a reduction in BV. Are all UR jumps really the same? You can have a UR jump with step out, or UR jump that really just barely missed the required rotation or UR jumps where you had good take off, landing, air position, transitions in and out (but short on the required rotation). I’d think those factors account for the difference in GOEs. But I’m not a judge so I didn’t receive the training that they did, ergo I cannot be positive that’s the case.

 

[skatenewbie]

Id say the judging for GOE is kind of all over the place, some are strict while some are not. But for calls like </!/e is more stricter. Maybe because its early on the season, i dont know. Usually the later in the season it get more leniency though since the scores tend to increase as well

 

[LRK]

Liza's PCS at Lombardia last year: 31.12

Liza's PCS at Lombardia this year: 31.76

http://www.fisg.it/upload/result/4802/SEG001.HTM

http://www.fisg.it/upload/result/5020/SEG001.HTM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufgYHGJAQAQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2FJbqbaTL8

The PCS were in line with what she has received before, and she skated better this year.

 

[colormyworld240]

Junior scoring has been very generous the last couple of seasons. It is unsurprising her PCS were lower here. Also, she had this lovely connection to her music last year that just wasn't present during yesterday's skate. If she skates the long with more musicality and performance quality. She will get higher PCS.

Here's where I disagree: Anna's SP last year had very obvious accents in the music and she hit them beautifully. But this program has more complex music, with more subtle nuances and I think she responds to beautifully, making it better than last year's. And should be rewarded with higher scores in performance interpretation. But we can disagree, that's fine.

We shall see when the sample size increases. Alena's programs have the same amount of transitions as last year, so if her scores increase, then that will tell us something. Same with Sasha. On the other hand, there has been many comments saying Alina's programs have less clutter this year, and I agree. If she does score less in PCS than in Carmen, then we will have out answer. If this is the case, it would show that the more cluttered programs are the way to go, and more transitions should be added accordingly.

 

[monochrom3]

Id say the judging for GOE is kind of all over the place, some are strict while some are not. But for calls like </!/e is more stricter. Maybe because its early on the season, i dont know. Usually the later in the season it get more leniency though since the scores tend to increase as well

In general I do think calls are stricter at the start of the season. But I do think the calls this season seem to be more than last year as well, and I think its got to do with the reduction in the BV reduction for say underrotated jumps as well. To me, when they announced it, it seemed like ISU was going to penalise these errors less but also call them more? Idk how to explain it but, it seemed like the large deductions last year was a cause for judges to be more reluctant to call jumps. Sort of like, okay this skater may have had an underrotated jump, but its not that bad that they deserve such a big drop of scores. And as the season went, calls got less, and ISU was actually using the reduction in penalisation of errors in order to help counter that problem.

Of course I may be wrong and we’ll see them get really lax with the scoring again real soon.

 

[readernick]

Hopefully so, but it seems like she got judged on a different scale than the other skaters today - Starr Andrews and Liza shouldn't be close or beating her in PCS.

I know I am going to get hate for this but, honestly I did not see a huge difference in PCS yesterday. Anna has more transitions, yes. But, her SS aren't the best. She was nervous, had no connection to the music and looked slow. The step sequence was plain bad on places. Star had perhaps her best performance ever, and Liza is getting the known skater boost so her PCS was a bit higher. I did not see this different scale that you did. They looked equal artistically yesterday. ( no always, but yesterday...yes)

I think Anna's long is the better program and if she shows her connection to the music and skates faster, she will get higher PCS.

 

[readernick]

In general I do think calls are stricter at the start of the season. But I do think the calls this season seem to be more than last year as well, and I think its got to do with the reduction in the BV reduction for say underrotated jumps as well. To me, when they announced it, it seemed like ISU was going to penalise these errors less but also call them more? Idk how to explain it but, it seemed like the large deductions last year was a cause for judges to be more reluctant to call jumps. Sort of like, okay this skater may have had an underrotated jump, but its not that bad that they deserve such a big drop of scores. And as the season went, calls got less, and ISU was actually using the reduction in penalisation of errors in order to help counter that problem.

Of course I may be wrong and we’ll see them get really lax with the scoring again real soon.

That is what I think, as well, after seeing the first two competitions.

I hope they keep the strict calling. It helps skaters improve.

 

[laybackrelaxspinfast]

I know I am going to get hate for this but, honestly I did not see a huge difference in PCS yesterday. Anna has more transitions, yes. But, her SS aren't the best. She was nervous, had no connection to the music and looked slow. The step sequence was plain bad on places. Star had perhaps her best performance ever, and Liza is getting the known skater boost so her PCS was a bit higher. I did not see this different scale that you did. They looked equal artistically yesterday. ( no always, but yesterday...yes)

I think Anna's long is the better program and if she shows her connection to the music and skates faster, she will get higher PCS.

This is exactly how I feel! I watched the top three ladies just to compare. I can see why Anna didn’t get the scores she is use to. It is unfair that people on this thread are tearing down Starr Andrew’s program, that is the best I’ve ever seen her skate and if she continues that way the US need to promote her. The jumps were BIG and strong and sadly that is something Anna lacks, because she is little and airy. Note that the two ladies who placed above her are strong powerful jumpers and Starr was very fast! I don’t think this is an anomaly as of yet (I’m happy to be proven wrong of course), I think the judges are trying to figure out where all this new talent fits in to the grand scheme of things. Not all the Russian ladies can be number one or even number two sadly, their placement matters here because they can’t have eight Russian ladies all skating at the same level, being given the same scores for what is clearly very different skating. In context she was one of the best in the world as a junior because when you compared her to the other juniors in the field she was clearly the better skater. This translated into junior scores which had a chance to collide with senior scores at Russian nationals whilst she was still being judged as a junior. Her scores will reflect that she no longer stands high above the available competition, because the ladies field is so deep! You can see this same principle at work with Alina, she won the Olympic gold and her scores reflected it, because she was now deemed to be the best of the best compared to the rest of her field. Sadly, a lot of judging is about proving yourself. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just telling it how it is.

 

[Vandevska]

I don’t mind the work of the TP, but judging panel seems to be quite generous. ! call still landed +3 goe 2 times in a row, and 3Lze<, which you think will get double the punishment still got +1 from one of the judges....
I mean, I was expecting the punishments for edges to be a little less than last year, but not really to this degree.

Calling Rika’s 3A UR resulted in 0 goe, so not even negative, and Medvedeva got only -0.09.
It felt like Eunsoo was judged harsher on her URs compared to the two
Skaters from Lombardia also got way higher punishments for lesser mistakes seems like.

In General UR calls get GOEs that are all over the place. So Rika got 0 to -3 (mostly -1) on her second one, which means judges thought that without the > (which is -1 -2), Rika‘s combo earned 0 for most. Same applies to Anna, in her case apparently her Lz-Lo was 0 in goe. I don’t know, the judging is soooo weird.

I think you're forgetting that the judges don't take the edge into consideration when awarding GOE. They award quality of execution. It's the TP's job to call it and thus the element would get a deduction based on that call.

 

[skatenewbie]

In general I do think calls are stricter at the start of the season. But I do think the calls this season seem to be more than last year as well, and I think its got to do with the reduction in the BV reduction for say underrotated jumps as well. To me, when they announced it, it seemed like ISU was going to penalise these errors less but also call them more? Idk how to explain it but, it seemed like the large deductions last year was a cause for judges to be more reluctant to call jumps. Sort of like, okay this skater may have had an underrotated jump, but its not that bad that they deserve such a big drop of scores. And as the season went, calls got less, and ISU was actually using the reduction in penalisation of errors in order to help counter that problem.

Of course I may be wrong and we’ll see them get really lax with the scoring again real soon.

yeah i get what you're saying, maybe that's the case. I remeber early in 17/18 season when Medvedeva try her first time using 1+6 layout and getting called 3Lze for the first time in like 2 or 3 years and people making a big fuss. But after that the call when nonexistent