2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[VenusHalley]

I think Stasya would benefit from sports psychologist maybe... she proved she can skate and land her stuff... but each time she is in serious competition.... she seems to mess up and let her mistakes build on. She does well at home, I guess she may have serious network there to support her... Hopefully she figures out this soon, because she cannot afford too many mistakes given to where she comes from.

 

[flanker]

Are some in here really and seriously having a discussion about names being written in capital letters or not? And even further, are these same people really looking into the spelling of others, analyzing it to find any potential malicious intent behind it? Don‘t you people have anything better to do?

If only similar comment was made when I was blamed that I speak about Evgenia as "Med" (which I never did, but it was obviously analyzed to find "any potential malicious intent behind it")

 

[VenusHalley]

What is classy about constant attacking Alina's program by comparing it with 30 years old one? Now, when she even doesn't skate it anymore? You can say "Alina's program is bad compared to Katarina's" (in some form), but saying otherwise is "not classy". Alina obviously lies in the belly of several people who constantly create some flame about her no matter whether it is actual or not, so I consider I can respond the same way.

It is funny how can we attack every other program, call it "empty" and say how it is not telling the story, but somehow Alina's Carmen is a taboo, unless you squee and gush over it.

 

[fabienne1996]

It is funny how can we attack every other program, call it "empty" and say how it is not telling the story, but somehow Alina's Carmen is a taboo, unless you squee and gush over it.

Not only Alinas programm it is literally a taboo in here to speak about any skater of a certain team if it is is not glowing positive. Sadly that is how it works in here and i do not think that will ever change in here. So I would love to say you do not have to get used to this but sadly you do.

 

[Fluture]

If only similar comment was made when I was blamed that I speak about Evgenia as "Med" (which I never did, but it was obviously analyzed to find "any potential malicious intent behind it")

Actually, if you‘d paid attention, you‘d have realised that I reacted in much the same way I do now. Sarcasm and ridiculing the situation because there‘s nothing more you can do when things like that happen. And by the way, because you found it such a low, unnecessary blow to analyze the spelling of others and call them out on it, you decided to do what..? Do the same? Nice.

No, it‘s just funny. Don‘t know why I‘m even bothering anymore.

Here‘s a meme for you all. Maybe it will cheer everyone up, myself included:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B2g5LHWHJTh/?igshid=1no0l64ibmo4s

Let‘s all try to comment like Ted, shall we? Might make this thread a bit more peaceful.

 

[flanker]

It is funny how can we attack every other program, call it "empty" and say how it is not telling the story, but somehow Alina's Carmen is a taboo, unless you squee and gush over it.

Actually the funny thing is that Alina's program was described this way countless times, no other program was called in negative way so often. And you can hardly find any other program that will be called "empty" or whatever word you have in your dictionary even next season. I don't see a point to bring this debate into light again (yes, again, that's the problem, not that somebody doesn't like it, but that he feels the need to tell it the world with every new week) and nor you nor any other person here gave the reason for repeating claims that were claimed over and over.

 

[bubblecherry]

If only similar comment was made when I was blamed that I speak about Evgenia as "Med" (which I never did, but it was obviously analyzed to find "any potential malicious intent behind it")

I'll break it down for you. The reason why some Zhenya fans do not appreciate or question the usage of 'Med' is because on platforms like Twitter, or in other people who hate Zhenya will refer to her as 'Med' or 'Medo' because they don't want Zhenya fans to be able to name-search "Evgenia" or "Zhenya" and see the hateful or vile things they're saying about her. People who dislike Zhenya tend to refer to her as Med or Medo, but people referring to her as that aren't *always* doing it to be hateful. You literally pulled this Alina/alina thing out of nowhere because a fan of zhenya said something about Alina that you didn't like. And you just admitted to doing it to start issues so

 

[flanker]

I'll break it down for you. The reason why some Zhenya fans do not appreciate or question the usage of 'Med' is because on platforms like Twitter, or in other people who hate Zhenya will refer to her as 'Med' or 'Medo' because they don't want Zhenya fans to be able to name-search "Evgenia" or "Zhenya" and see the hateful or vile things they're saying about her. People who dislike Zhenya tend to refer to her as Med or Medo, but people referring to her as that aren't *always* doing it to be hateful. You literally pulled this Alina/alina thing out of nowhere because a fan of zhenya said something about Alina that you didn't like. And you just admitted to doing it to start issues so

It's not my bussiness why somebody likes or doesn't like that abbreviation. I've never used it so it's pointless.

 

[katymay]

I think those who say quads or 3a are an "unfair" advantage just want to downplay their skills.

Personally i'm all for quads in the SP too, i don't see the point for the restriction, if the other ladies cannot perform these elements, it's up to them to keep up.

Normally I am, but watching Nugumanova today, I sort of do hope that there is a separate artistic competition developed in the future. It was sad to see that program today and think that probably very few people in the skating world will ever see it because she won't even make it to Russian Nationals, or GP or even a Challenger. (I also don't see an UR on the 3L3L but...whatever). Maybe it is time to split the sport in two, one track athletic, one track artistic. There should be a place for the Jason Browns, Aloyna Kostornaias, Nugumanovas etc.

 

[Scott512]

I was just thinking that - Alina is by all accounts a generous-minded and sweet-natured girl, does anyone think she would appreciate such piddling nitpickery on her behalf?

She did her darnest to make that Carmen look everything the choreographer thought he'd made it. Let's leave it at that, hmmm?

No one expected to talk about Alina and Carmen ad nauseam today. Until someone brought her Carmen up in what some perceive a somewhat negative light.

 

[Scott512]

Normally I am, but watching Nugumanova today, I sort of do hope that there is a separate artistic competition developed in the future. It was sad to see that program today and think that probably very few people in the skating world will ever see it because she won't even make it to Russian Nationals, or GP or even a Challenger. (I also don't see an UR on the 3L3L but...whatever). Maybe it is time to split the sport in two, one track athletic, one track artistic. There should be a place for the Jason Browns, Aloyna Kostornaias, Nugumanovas etc.

I agree with your pertinent point and how there should be a separate competition for artistic skaters. Many fans who have been a fan of figure skating for decades much prefer the artistic graceful figure skating to the jumping athletic figure skating.

Kostornia is way above the other artistic skaters in terms of technical ability triple axel potential and overall potential. But I agree with you about Nugumanova. I feel the same way about Nastya G. Something needs to change in the future of figure skating. Remember that disastrous men's competition in Sochi? it was a flop fest due to incredible athleticism and difficulty for the men. Millions of people like me did not enjoy that and I certainly don't want to see the women's game become that.

 

[Scott512]

I think Stasya would benefit from sports psychologist maybe... she proved she can skate and land her stuff... but each time she is in serious competition.... she seems to mess up and let her mistakes build on. She does well at home, I guess she may have serious network there to support her... Hopefully she figures out this soon, because she cannot afford too many mistakes given to where she comes from.

Good points VH. I too wish Stasya would use a sport psychologist. But if she was going to do so it would have happened by now. Good God she is such a beautiful woman and figure skater. I want to watch her skate be happy and just enjoy her work. But Stasya gets frustrated often. She has a few more events this season and I hope she hits them big because I want to see her smiling.

 

[Elucidus]

Normally I am, but watching Nugumanova today, I sort of do hope that there is a separate artistic competition developed in the future. It was sad to see that program today and think that probably very few people in the skating world will ever see it because she won't even make it to Russian Nationals, or GP or even a Challenger. (I also don't see an UR on the 3L3L but...whatever). Maybe it is time to split the sport in two, one track athletic, one track artistic. There should be a place for the Jason Browns, Aloyna Kostornaias, Nugumanovas etc.

Is it really neccessary to win constantly to be known and loved? Seeing Brown's and Kostornaia's fame - I don't think so. Nugumanova is not known internationally - but she is in fact pretty popular skater inside Russia with her own dedicated circle of fans.
On other hand ideal of fs is skaters like Hanyu. Strong both artistically and technically. Rules shoud encourage athletes to be like him - not destroying that possibility. Dividing fs in two halves will limit considerably one's ability to develop equally and balanced - and be strong both artistically and technically. Moreover it will limit one's ability to be technical in artistic programs - and artistic - in technical. Thus degrading even notion of artistry and sport symbiosis in one performance - which was ISU ideal many years. In other words no one can be able to see one artistic and emotional program full of nuances and purpose - filled with quads to the brim at the same time. Such rules will set artificial ceiling to true talents and their possible scores - for the sake of leveling them with more weak skaters.
Instead of pursuing easy ways of "saving" less successful skaters by inventing artificial limits for strong ones - I would try to encourage them to learn and up their tech content Regardless of productivity of such approach in cases of some athlethes - it's still the right stance one should take when considering ways for improving and progress - and not saving your favorite skaters.

Remember that disastrous men's competition in Sochi? it was a flop fest due to incredible athleticism and difficulty for the men. Millions of people like me did not enjoy that and I certainly don't want to see the women's game become that.

But it changed with time, isn't it? It was transitional period then - now men are more used to quads, they are more consistent with them and even have time and ability to add great artistic side as well. Have a patience, guys - and give time to ladies to develop their tech side too Instead of be scared of it immeadiately and trying to limit it ASAP

 

[Wombat1800]

Are some in here really and seriously having a discussion about names being written in capital letters or not? And even further, are these same people really looking into the spelling of others, analyzing it to find any potential malicious intent behind it? Don‘t you people have anything better to do?

This thread surprises me every time when I thought things couldn‘t become more ridiculous.

Anyway, Sasha lands quads today. Congrats, little history maker. Stasya had a rough skate and I‘m sad for her. She looked so good at the Aurora Games, fighter mode on and all. What happened here?

I’m worried for Masha, though. And I feel for her. She‘s gone through literal hell this year and people are already writing her off, saying she‘s “disposable“ and whatnot. For anyone who wants to listen, or doesn‘t want to listen, I don‘t care: Maria Sotskova is a strong person and she keeps on skating as a professional athlete and simultaneously excelling at university while mourning a parent. Reading some of the comments in here makes me angry. She can‘t control her assignments, it’s not her fault that she got a GP spot. And btw, none of you in here know whether she‘s “committed“ enough to skating. So, please stop assuming. I hope she has support to go through this hell of a time and that people tell her that she should be proud of herself instead of tearing her down even further. These girls are human beings, for goodness sake.

Thank you for saying this about Masha! She's never been a personal favorite of mine, but I really feel for her, she's lost a parent, started attending university, and changed coaches in the span of less than a year (plus it's September when not everyone is at their best yet) and people are already counting her out. I hope she can have performances she is happy with this season, regardless of where she ends up placing.

 

[katymay]

I think Stasya would benefit from sports psychologist maybe... she proved she can skate and land her stuff... but each time she is in serious competition.... she seems to mess up and let her mistakes build on. She does well at home, I guess she may have serious network there to support her... Hopefully she figures out this soon, because she cannot afford too many mistakes given to where she comes from.

I think something was wrong with the ice, or the rink today. I heard someone say it was too small which threw off everyone's patterns, but I think the ice itself might have been a problem. It seemed like all day long there were strange issues, people losing edges, etc.

 

[Jontor]

Are some in here really and seriously having a discussion about names being written in capital letters or not? And even further, are these same people really looking into the spelling of others, analyzing it to find any potential malicious intent behind it? Don‘t you people have anything better to do?

This thread surprises me every time when I thought things couldn‘t become more ridiculous.

Anyway, Sasha lands quads today. Congrats, little history maker. Stasya had a rough skate and I‘m sad for her. She looked so good at the Aurora Games, fighter mode on and all. What happened here?

I’m worried for Masha, though. And I feel for her. She‘s gone through literal hell this year and people are already writing her off, saying she‘s “disposable“ and whatnot. For anyone who wants to listen, or doesn‘t want to listen, I don‘t care: Maria Sotskova is a strong person and she keeps on skating as a professional athlete and simultaneously excelling at university while mourning a parent. Reading some of the comments in here makes me angry. She can‘t control her assignments, it’s not her fault that she got a GP spot. And btw, none of you in here know whether she‘s “committed“ enough to skating. So, please stop assuming. I hope she has support to go through this hell of a time and that people tell her that she should be proud of herself instead of tearing her down even further. These girls are human beings, for goodness sake.

I have to disagree about Sotskova. Today she had the chance to prove herself, but instead she was spiralling down even further. I admire her will to not give up, but today it was clear that she has lost her jumps, lost her stamina. So I don't think she is fighting enough. Everyone can have a bad day, and should be encouraged to come back from that. Sotskova has now had a bad year and I don't see any improvements. Of course she can control her assignments - she got that GP spot because she wanted to, and because she still ranks high enough in the world standings. But I doubt that she can finish in the top 10 at GP France (out of 12).

But what is really unfair though, is that because of that GP spot Maria also has a free ticket to RusNats. Does she really want to go there and fight for the last places like last year?. Meanwhile, there are many talented hungry girls that fight for their lives in the Group Stages of Russian Cup to grab one of the 5-6 places that's left for them. So no, I don't think Sotskova shall hold on to her spots just because she can, when she at the same time is making it harder for the ones who would love the opportunity to show themselves.

Tsurskaya had a bad year last season as well. She knew that she had to fight harder than ever to come back and realised she didn't have the motivation for that. She publically said so. As much as I loved Tsurskaya and hated to see her go, I admire her decision to resign. I am not saying Maria should resign, if she wants to skate and doesn't want to give up. Fine. But she has to fight. It was clear to me comparing Sakhanovich and Sotskova today. It was like night and day. One is a fighter - the other not - imo.

 

[Vandevska]

It's not my bussiness why somebody likes or doesn't like that abbreviation. I've never used it so it's pointless.

Then why are you bringing it up lol?

 

[colormyworld240]

{sotto voce} whose trumpeter's dead now? {/sotto voce} Maybe he thinks if he keeps saying it was a masterpiece loudly and long enough...



First sentence, perfectly true. But that doesn't mean that any choreographer who wants to do so by definition does it!

Never said it did? Just pointing out that there's nothing wrong with Daniil saying that, when he was asked about it. Many are in fact taking his words out of context. The interviewer questioned him on his idea behind Alina's Carmen choreography. That's the response he gave - what he wanted to do for it. He didn't say that he made the best Carmen program in history like others are insinuating. That wasn't the question. He simply explained his motivation and thought process. That he wanted to make the best program, most memorable, so it would be difficult for others to replicate (in a higher quality). Even if what resulted was the worst choreography in history (I don't think it was) it doesn't make him egotistical in any way. It makes him a choreographer who puts in maximum effort, which is his job. He's not constantly saying it's a masterpiece, it's just the one interview that people keep bringing up even though it's putting words into his mouth that he never said, regardless of the explanations given.

Now, my opinion is I prefer Carmen to Cleopatra so far. I actually find Cleopatra a bit empty, but I may just be used to seeing Alina with more transitions and choreography.

 

[Skater Boy]

I have to disagree about Sotskova. Today she had the chance to prove herself, but instead she was spiralling down even further. I admire her will to not give up, but today it was clear that she has lost her jumps, lost her stamina. So I don't think she is fighting enough. Everyone can have a bad day, and should be encouraged to come back from that. Sotskova has now had a bad year and I don't see any improvements. Of course she can control her assignments - she got that GP spot because she wanted to, and because she still ranks high enough in the world standings. But I doubt that she can finish in the top 10 at GP France (out of 12).

But what is really unfair though, is that because of that GP spot Maria also has a free ticket to RusNats. Does she really want to go there and fight for the last places like last year?. Meanwhile, there are many talented hungry girls that fight for their lives in the Group Stages of Russian Cup to grab one of the 5-6 places that's left for them. So no, I don't think Sotskova shall hold on to her spots just because she can, when she at the same time is making it harder for the ones who would love the opportunity to show themselves.

Tsurskaya had a bad year last season as well. She knew that she had to fight harder than ever to come back and realised she didn't have the motivation for that. She publically said so. As much as I loved Tsurskaya and hated to see her go, I admire her decision to resign. I am not saying Maria should resign, if she wants to skate and doesn't want to give up. Fine. But she has to fight. It was clear to me comparing Sakhanovich and Sotskova today. It was like night and day. One is a fighter - the other not - imo.

I hear you but even in her horrible shape she is far better than Gracie was when she skated in russia last year. It is so sad to see her decline but it can't help with all the pressure from her compatriots. It is sad when the defending world and olympic champion is not a sure thing to go to worlds forget about the w two time world champ, o lympic silver medallist and current world bronze medallist looks so far out contention right now.

 

[Azikin]

I hear you but even in her horrible shape she is far better than Gracie was when she skated in russia last year.

She still ended up below Ivett Toth and that should be embarrassing enough for her to give up her GP spot.