2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Jontor]

Thanks. Is it possible that they were offered a spot and turned it down (for example knowing they would retire)? I am not sure what happens if a country maxes out on spots before all skaters who are guaranteed one receive theirs, I don't think it is in the rules. What gets priority - World Standings or Season's Best list? Are you saying that this is where the federation stepped in and decided who goes? Is that an internal rule for RusFed or just a guess that that is what happened?

I am pretty sure that is what happened, but you are free to ask around, maybe I have severly misunderstood the situation. In Tarusina's case it is quite clear that RusFed decided she would still be in juniors and compete at JGP. Her injury wasn't known until Test Skates in september so any retirement issues was not known at the time when assignments were made.
The whole situation is unprecedented. To my knowledge, no federation has maxed out in GP spots and had more "guaranteed" skaters than there were spots. Maybe there will be a change in rules next year? For sure, RusFed will have the same problem again.
What I can see there is no specification in the rules if WS trumphs SB, but I suspect that Maria got her spot because RusFed rated WS higher. But that is just my speculation.

 

[starla16]

The thing with Kostornaia is she almost seems to fly and float across the ice, and it leaves one transfixed. Judges are human, and I think some things are overlooked because you are almost moved into an alternative state when you watch her. It is hard to see the flaws. When I watch Liza, I think to myself, if only she could improve A, B and C. If only. (Even though she has improved a great deal) It is much easier to pick apart a program which is not enjoyable.

Tuk was going to disadvantaged, as suspected she got lower levels after Kostornaia skated
yes judges are human and Im sure they compared her to Kostornaia

 

[IndiaP12]

Even if you give that, Liza's program is still more difficult due to the 3A, i don't particularly agree with the insane inflation for Kostornaya from the get go.

Yes she is great but this was not a perfect skate:

In the combination she had no speed coming out, + 5 for that is very generous.

lack of flow in the steps sequence, she was almost falling a couple of times (the choreography for the steps could be a factor too, that part needed some rework last season);

The edge on the lutz is not clearly outside.

Agree. Kostornaya’s SS are superb and her jumps are big but there are still many things to work on. Apart from the flow/ss I don’t find her much more superior than Anna in PCS who got only 30. 77 is a good if not generous score for her debut.

 

[flanker]

Does anyone have videos of Sima and Guliakova today? I‘m very happy for Sima that she won.

Sima:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1C2x9MYf8s

Didn't find Guliakova for now. But do not expect perfection from either of them today...

 

[nussnacker]

Well.... okay, the lip call was fair, I saw it in real time too, the levels too, I guess.
But damn, that’s still so low, it’s mind boggling :-/

 

[Tolstoj]

Were we watching a different Kostornaia because I swear the one I saw had a great 3-3 and the step sequence was good without any "almost falling over?"

She masked well the lack of speed coming out of the combo with the waltz jump immediately after, it's nitpicking but i was discussing that one judge who gave her a +5.

For a +5 worthy combo i want to see effortless execution with great speed and flow in and out, which i believe it is even in the guidelines. This was a +3, +4 for me. (depending on how you judge the body position on the toe and the toe pick)

https://youtu.be/11dGNe7052g?t=127

As for the steps sequence, i don't really like her twizzles (which are also an issue for Trusova and Shcherbakova), and i was referring to these two parts.

https://youtu.be/11dGNe7052g?t=177

https://youtu.be/11dGNe7052g?t=158

I believe the first one she even fell and stumbled a couple of times last season, i was hoping for a redesign of the steps sequence to be honest.

The second i think there was supposed to be a waltz jump there.

Again nitpicking sure, and we're comparing that to Tuktamysheva's two foot skating, but we're still discussing a very high score.

 

[Vilord]

Can you specify what guaranteed their spots? Genuine question. Neither was in the top 24 score or World Standings.

Yes they where. Both Tarusina and Gubanova was Higher placed in the SB list than both Konstantinova (who was in the top 24SB) and Sotskova (who wasnt in the top 24). The rules Garantued all four of these girls one spot but due to lack of spots for russia one ended up with 2 (Konstantinova) one with one (Sotskova) and two with none (Gubanova and Tarusina).

When people complain its unfair that one skater got a spot over the others who were also guaranteed one its not unreasonable because it is unfair no matter who would have been left out. I would say it would be just as unfair if it had been the other way around and Gubanova would have had the spot Stoskova now does have.

 

[Tolstoj]

I'd like to know an opinion on Kostornaya's lutz edge from those who say Liza's lip call was fair.

You can slow-mo from here.

https://youtu.be/11dGNe7052g?t=79

She barely goes on the outside, but for the most part it stays flat.

 

[Resa]

Does Tarakanova skate today at stage 2?

 

[esteticlove]

Alena's 2A was huge! The same goes to the -3T in the combo! I liked her performance but I found her sliding not as effortless as it used to be. Hopefully, this is just temporally because of the injury. I find her score fine compared to the other ladies that have skated so far.

Liza - wow! She changed the music, didn't she? And I think she added some stuff in between the jumps, no? Finally the figure skating Gods heard/read my rant from Lombardia and gave her a very entertaining program. For the first time, I enjoyed her skating AND performance fully. I also like her dress. It was good that she got rid of the excessive wrist movements. I don't think that her 3A and 3Lutz need a comment, they were spectacular. Too bad for the Flip call but I think it was fair. It was funny though that I thought it was a 3Loop while I was watching because the Flip is normally the jump that I can immediately recognise. Still, I am a bit confused with her scores. At Lombardia they tried to inflate her score and now here, where she was actually skating, it didn't feel quite right. The lost levels on the spins are obviously too costly.

 

[pearly]

I am pretty sure that is what happened, but you are free to ask around, maybe I have severly misunderstood the situation. In Tarusina's case it is quite clear that RusFed decided she would still be at juniors and compete and JGP. Her injury wasn't known until Test Skates in september so any retirement issues was not known at the time when assignments were made.
The whole situation is unprecedented. To my knowledge, no federation has maxed out in GP spots and had more "guaranteed" skaters than there were spots. Maybe there will be a change in rules next year? For sure, RusFed will have the same problem again.
What I can see there is no specifikation in the rules if WS trumphs SB, but I suspect that Maria got her spot because RusFed rated WS higher. But that is just my speculation.

Wait, did Tarusina originally plan (or the Fed planned for her) to compete in the JGP? In that case she cannot compete in the Sr GP series as well.

Someone else wrote that Russia maxed out on spots, I presumed it was correct. I'm not clear from your answer if they did not did not. If they did not, then all skaters would have been offered a guaranteed spot. In case they did, the GP rules currently do not suggest any kind of tie breaker other than the fact WR is listed first and SB second within the same paragraph. I wonder if that will be changed for next year.

 

[Mishaminion]

Yes they where. Both Tarusina and Gubanova was Higher placed in the SB list than both Konstantinova (who was in the top 24SB) and Sotskova (who wasnt in the top 24). The rules Garantued all four of these girls one spot but due to lack of spots for russia one ended up with 2 (Konstantinova) one with one (Sotskova) and two with none (Gubanova and Tarusina).

When people complain its unfair that one skater got a spot over the others who were also guaranteed one its not unreasonable because it is unfair no matter who would have been left out. I would say it would be just as unfair if it had been the other way around and Gubanova would have had the spot Stoskova now does have.

It is disappointing and unfair on whoever gets left out, but is an unfortunate consequence of so many Russian ladies making these lists there are not enough places to offer to them.

It's even more unfair to start demanding a skater give up her place because they feel she's unworthy of it.
They are all worthy, but it is a unique predicament.

 

[Jontor]

Yes they where. Both Tarusina and Gubanova was Higher placed in the SB list than both Konstantinova (who was in the top 24SB) and Sotskova (who wasnt in the top 24). The rules Garantued all four of these girls one spot but due to lack of spots for russia one ended up with 2 (Konstantinova) one with one (Sotskova) and two with none (Gubanova and Tarusina).

When people complain its unfair that one skater got a spot over the others who were also guaranteed one its not unreasonable because it is unfair no matter who would have been left out. I would say it would be just as unfair if it had been the other way around and Gubanova would have had the spot Stoskova now does have.

I totally agree Vilord. It is unfair to everyone involved and I really hope that the ISU will look into this and clearify/add to the rules, because it is going to be an even bigger mess for Russian Ladies next year. There is right now a potential of 14 ladies fighting for the GP spots.

 

[Fluture]

Sima:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1C2x9MYf8s

Didn't find Guliakova for now. But do not expect perfaction from either of them today...

Thank you. I do not expect perfection from anyone, even though I‘m certainly happy when I see it. And Guliakova had some issues at her Russian Cup Events so it‘s good enough that she finished second here. I‘m just happy to see Sima skate and hope she can polish her programs until Skate Canada.

 

[Azikin]

Does Tarakanova skate today at stage 2?

Tomorrow, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Jontor]

Thank you. I do not expect perfection from anyone, even though I‘m certainly happy when I see it. And Guliakova had some issues at her Russian Cup Events so it‘s good enough that she finished second here. I‘m just happy to see Sima skate and hope she can polish her programs until Skate Canada.

It is worrying about Gulyakova though. She popped her jumps again here and her score isn't nearly enough to Q for RusNats. I hope she will have a better skate at the next RC Group event.

 

[Mishaminion]

I totally agree Vilord. It is unfair to everyone involved and I really hope that the ISU will look into this and clearify/add to the rules, because it is going to be an even bigger mess for Russian Ladies next year.

It is a difficult situation. Adding more spots for qualifying Russians would no doubt start off some complaining of "favouritism" despite how much sense it makes. They earned it, afterall.

 

[pearly]

Yes they where. Both Tarusina and Gubanova was Higher placed in the SB list than both Konstantinova (who was in the top 24SB) and Sotskova (who wasnt in the top 24). The rules Garantued all four of these girls one spot but due to lack of spots for russia one ended up with 2 (Konstantinova) one with one (Sotskova) and two with none (Gubanova and Tarusina).

When people complain its unfair that one skater got a spot over the others who were also guaranteed one its not unreasonable because it is unfair no matter who would have been left out. I would say it would be just as unfair if it had been the other way around and Gubanova would have had the spot Stoskova now does have.

I was looking at the World Raking list by mistake, not the SB list.
I agree with you. Still curious regarding how the decision is made if there are more skaters than guaranteed spots because the ISU did not foresee that one in their rules (at lease I could not find it in their relevant document).

 

[JazzUp]

She barely goes on the outside, but for the most part it stays flat.

I'm sure the Tech Panel saw it better than you could (from a blurry slow mo) - she performed the jump almost in front of them.

 

[pearly]

It is a difficult situation. Adding more spots for qualifying Russians would be doubt start off some complaining of "favourtism" despite how much sense it makes. They earned it, afterall.

Adding more spots for qualifying Russians would not be fair. Adding more spots for all federations with more qualifying skaters OR setting clear tie breakers in this case is necessary. And easy. They can either prioritize World Standings or Season's Best list one over the other and they clarify that in case of maxed out spots, skaters ranked higher in the prioritized list will be guaranteed spots. Tie breakers for GPF are ridiculously nuanced to the point of impossible scenarios. This should be a piece of cake.