How deep can an edge be? | Golden Skate

How deep can an edge be?

Mathman

Mathman

Zamboni Driver
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I saw this picture of Michelle doing a spread eagle. It looks like the angle of the blade to the ice is less than 45 degrees (unless she has just slipped off her edge and is about to fall on her behind).

Which moves require edging like this and which skaters are especially good at it?

http://sportssay.beloblog.com/archives/kwan.JPG
 
Nice picture! How about Shizuka Arakawa? I like her smooth skating. And Ms. Yuka Sato seemed to be very famous for deep edges.

p.s.

I found Ms. Yuka Sato. A cute program. Her spiral was surprisingly short...... But footworks are very fast and smooth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNnkbxO4g_M

I think that I like Arakawa's skate better. Arakawa also has deep edges that can give her great speed with only a few strokes, and does great footworks as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij7MHm8bJ0c
Love the little spread eagles before the spiral sequence.
 
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Mathman said:
I saw this picture of Michelle doing a spread eagle. It looks like the angle of the blade to the ice is less than 45 degrees (unless she has just slipped off her edge and is about to fall on her behind).

Which moves require edging like this and which skaters are especially good at it?

http://sportssay.beloblog.com/archives/kwan.JPG
Click to expand...


Deep edges really used to count the most for figures. They also earn ice dancers huge marks. For free style edges are used for moves such as a mohawk, a three turn, a spiral, a spread eagle and other moves in the field.

Skaters like Jeff Buttle and Kurt Browning who do a lot of footwork are extremely well trained in using both inside and outside edges. The judges look for quality edges from these type of skaters. Jeff and possibly Kurt may have missed out on the previous generation of school figures; however, their basic skating training has included good edge usage training.

The real advantage of learning school figures was developing deep edges through tracing figures over and over. I am sure today's skaters still learn the importance of deep edges and do exercises that incorporate edges.
I know figures are still taught here in Canada.
 
Outside of :bow: Michelle :bow: and Brian, I think Irina has the most beautiful edges... deep and strong... which is why I always laugh when people make the comment that Irina has awful spirals... becuase they fail to look down... hers are a thing of beauty... And I agree with Lad in that the loss of figures training has notictably lowered the bar in terms of edging and quality of a skater's overall skating. But of course a triple axel is sooo much more important, right?;)
 
Ladskater said:
Deep edges really used to count the most for figures.
Click to expand...

Actually figures were about controlled and steady edges, not necessarily deep edges. The only figure that lends itself to deep edges (relatively speaking) was the paragraph loop and those deep edges are probably what shrunk it down so tiny.

Try a paragraph bracket and double three on deep edges and you're in big trouble.
 
I think that a lot of russian pair team, esp B&S at the 2002 olympic had very smooth deep edges. Somthing that they really stressed back in the soviet days.

As for Michelel's spread eagle.... i love that move even more than her spiral. She looks so triumphant doing it and so full of heart.
 
Ladskater said:
Jeff and possibly Kurt may have missed out on the previous generation of school figures; however, their basic skating training has included good edge usage training.

The real advantage of learning school figures was developing deep edges through tracing figures over and over. I am sure today's skaters still learn the importance of deep edges and do exercises that incorporate edges.
I know figures are still taught here in Canada.
Click to expand...

IIRC, Kurt was world champion the final year figures were used in competition. He was actually quite good at them, which always surprised me given that he wasn’t exactly known for his, ahem, “discipline”, as an amateur. :laugh: Jeff Buttle did competitive ice dance with his sister as a youngster, which would have given him a good foundation as well. Unfortunately, figures are no longer part of the test system in Canada, so most coaches no longer teach them. :frown:

Some random nice edges from Canucks this season:

Joannie:
http://www.imagestation.com/8240486/3923832672

Jeff:
http://www.imagestation.com/8240486/3923156306

Shawn Sawyer:
http://www.imagestation.com/8240486/3960898768
http://www.imagestation.com/8240486/3932132474

Patrick Chan:
http://www.imagestation.com/8240486/3932126132

V&M:
http://www.imagestation.com/8240486/3959341429
 
IIRC, Kurt was world champion the final year figures were used in competition. He was actually quite good at them, which always surprised me given that he wasn’t exactly known for his, ahem, “discipline”, as an amateur. Jeff Buttle did competitive ice dance with his sister as a youngster, which would have given him a good foundation as well. Unfortunately, figures are no longer part of the test system in Canada, so most coaches no longer teach them.
Click to expand...

I think you're right that 91 was the last worlds figures were part of... and he did win that year...

at least I'm pretty sure, if it was 92, though, then he would have been 2nd...

but he wrote about figures in his book... and he wasn't a 'kid' kid when they were eliminated

and hasn't he spoken out about how he felt figures should have stayed (even when he was still an amatuer)
 
When I saw the title of this topic I thought of Jeffery Buttle, Brian Boitano, Yuka Sato, John Curry and Shizuka Arakawa.

Having seen Mao Asada's performance at Chukyou University rink opening ceremony I must add her as well. She added to her performance a few beautiful tricks, including beautiful outside spreadeagle, tracing a full circle, then moving into sort of a kneeling position with free leg straight, switching from inside to outside edge and right into Biellman spin.
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/7387/mao2007mayovertherainbouh3.jpg
You can sort of see it in the screencap sequence above, although the angle is bad and the quality of footage leaves much to wish for.
Please check out her new finishing pose - now that could be a material for a topic "how much can a senior lady bend her back?". :) :thumbsup:

When it comes to jump landings, IMHO no one comes close to Nobunari Oda.
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4936/nobu3alandingsazq3.jpg
He also has really nice spreadeagles and spirals, but he does them mostly only in Galas nowadays. I think David Wilson should include this balletic quality of his skating (including great layback) in his programs, rather than try to make him into Odashenko or Odabert. The macho style does not suit him.


ETA: I forgot about Virtue/Moir. Their quality of edge can be breathtaking. I'll try to find some appropriate photos...
 
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Tonichelle said:
I think you're right that 91 was the last worlds figures were part of... and he did win that year...

and hasn't he spoken out about how he felt figures should have stayed (even when he was still an amatuer)
Click to expand...

The last world championships to include figures was 1990, 1991 was the first figureless championships.

Browning won with figures in 1989 and 1990 and without figures in 1991 and 1993. He's the only skater to win worlds both with and without figures.
 
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