2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Grin]

If there is a genuine reason to believe something "criminal" is going on, skaters and their team CAN and DO file complaints.

They have before, no matter who coaches them.

A Russian lady has, Irina Slutskaya 2002 Olympics

Are you seriously trying to present that situation with Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze and Canadian pair as an example skaters should follow?
As for me it was a sad day for figure skating.

 

[Jontor]

The startlist for tomorrow is up.

The last three are Alina, Alena, Mariah in that order.

 

[flanker]

Funnily enough not even Alina seems to agree with you. She accepted her score, there is no protest from her and her team. She is not crying "investigate this guy!!!"

I do not agree she was on an outside edge. That photo is so blurry you can hardly tell that's Alina nevermind what edge she's on! No wonder you see things a certain way using that!

The fact she is not protesting (what she could achieve by this, also I've never heard that Eteri skater would raise any protest ever, because that's not what leads to anything) doesn't mean she agrees. She needs to focus on the free skate in the first place. After all I doubt she had even the opportunity to see her skate yet.

That doesn't mean she had inside edge and I personally see this picture quite conclusive. It also doesn't mean that people should accept wrong edge calls.

 

[Mishaminion]

Are you seriously trying to present that situation with Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze and Canadian pair as an example skaters should follow?
As for me it was a sad day for figure skating.

Please learn some skating history

Irina was the Ladies silver medalist nothing to do with pairs

 

[esteticlove]

Everyone makes mistakes.

Are you saying that even a skater with a clear outside edge could never ever make an error and flutz?

That is an impossible standard you hold these athletes to

Well, you are kind of changing the topic. Of course, they can make mistakes and they do very often. But those are underrotations, bad air position, problems with legs wrapping and whatever. But suddenly a complete change of an entry edge? For a skater who's never had such problems not only in the past but even a couple of weeks ago (or even days ago during her practice sessions)? This seems too far stretched to me.

 

[Grin]

Please learn some skating history

Irina was the Ladies silver medalist nothing to do with pairs

I was referring that statement of yours "skaters and their team CAN and DO file complaints"
I thought you were taking about CANADA

As for Irina, her complaints (unlike the situation with Canadian pair) didn't do her any good

 

[Mishaminion]

The fact she is not protesting (what she could achieve by this, also I've never heard that Eteri skater would raise any protest ever, because that's not what leads to anything) doesn't mean she agrees. She needs to focus on the free skate in the first place. After all I doubt she had even the opportunity to see her skate yet.

That doesn't mean she had inside edge and I personally see this picture quite conclusive. It also doesn't mean that people should accept wrong edge calls.

Skaters are well within their rights to protest

Nothing says they can't or that they shouldn't

If it really is that clearly a deliberate attempt to reduce her score she has every right to protest.

 

[Mishaminion]

I was referring that statement of yours "skaters and their team CAN and DO file complaints"

Irina did file a complaint. Still nothing to do with pairs

 

[Mishaminion]

Well, you are kind of changing the topic. Of course, they can make mistakes and they do very often. But those are underrotations, bad air position, problems with legs wrapping and whatever. But suddenly a complete change of an entry edge? For a skater who's never had such problems not only in the past but even a couple of weeks ago (or even days ago during her practice sessions)? This seems too far stretched to me.

There are probably times she should have been called for ! or maybe even e but never was.

You cant tell me that has never happened before, as Zhenya's critics like to point out...her flutz was ignored only to be then suddenly getting called

 

[Grin]

Irina did file a complaint. Still nothing to do with pairs

And why Alina should follow her example? We all know how Eteri raise her students. Have you ever heard Eteri student openly complaining about the scores? I can't remember it.

P.S. Can't you see how ridiculous your claim is? "Alina didn't behave like Ashley and that means the call was legit"

 

[theharleyquinn]

Well, you are kind of changing the topic. Of course, they can make mistakes and they do very often. But those are underrotations, bad air position, problems with legs wrapping and whatever. But suddenly a complete change of an entry edge? For a skater who's never had such problems not only in the past but even a couple of weeks ago (or even days ago during her practice sessions)? This seems too far stretched to me.

I disagree that there couldn't be slight changes in physics that would impact a skater's edge that is already more on the flatter side. Sometimes Alena has a true flutz and sometimes it is more flat. I would say Alina is more consistently flat to slight outside, but it did look like at the last moment before takeoff she could've leaned more on the inside edge. When someone is skating tight, the weight distribution on the blade can change. It's weird to me that we're treating edges as wholly different from underrotations/air position. Sometimes skaters arbitrarily make mistakes on takeoff. Again, I don't think this should've been an e, but even the photo is ambiguous and barely flat enough that I could accept a ! call with more generous GOE than she was given.

 

[Mishaminion]

And why Alina should follow her example? We all know how Eteri raise her students. Have you ever heard Eteri student openly complaining about the scores? I can't remember it.

It does not mean that they can't do so if they felt it was necessary.

You are making a big deal out of this judging decision and calling out for the tech controller to be investigated. So in your mind there's good reason to protest isn't there?

 

[andromache]

And why Alina should follow her example? We all know how Eteri raise her students. Have you ever heard Eteri student openly complaining about the scores? I can't remember it.

Exactly. Eteri teaches her girls that what the judges say is right, like it or not. Even when judges make a mistake, the system says they are right, because a part of the sport (like it or not) is dealing with human error. Perhaps there should be a system for skaters or their teams to contest a technical call like in gymnastics. I like that idea, personally, but of course the ISU doesn’t want to deal with the hassle.

Eteri and Alina will know now to work harder on her lutz edge so that there is no doubt in the judges’ minds that it is a clear outside edge.

 

[Grin]

It does not mean that they can't do so if they felt it was necessary.
You are making a big deal out of this judging decision and calling out for the tech controller to be investigated. So in your mind there's good reason to protest isn't there?

You know Eteri has her methods. And her students never openly complain about their scores. That's how it is. It's up to Eteri and Alina how to react on that call. But her decision to act with grace and doesn't make the call legit.

 

[esteticlove]

I disagree that there couldn't be slight changes in physics that would impact a skater's edge that is already more on the flatter side. Sometimes Alena has a true flutz and sometimes it is more flat. I would say Alina is more consistently flat to slight outside, but it did look like at the last moment before takeoff she could've leaned more on the inside edge. When someone is skating tight, the weight distribution on the blade can change. It's weird to me that we're treating edges as wholly different from underrotations/air position. Sometimes skaters arbitrarily make mistakes on takeoff. Again, I don't think this should've been an e, but even the photo is ambiguous and barely flat enough that I could accept a ! call with more generous GOE than she was given.

It's interesting to read what you're saying though. Change of edge as a fluke mistake like an underrotation. It could be possible, but I'll think about it some other time, now as I mentioned this competition made me bitter.

There are probably times she should have been called for ! or maybe even e but never was.

You cant tell me that has never happened before, as Zhenya's critics like to point out...her flutz was ignored only to be then suddenly getting called

This is what makes me angry. We've been discussing a presumably wrong edge call and you suddenly say that Alina's lutzes sometimes are flat. Well, flat is not an inside edge.. Even I said that a ! call in this competition would be fine for me, because I also saw a flat edge.

 

[Mishaminion]

Exactly. Eteri teaches her girls that what the judges say is right, like it or not. Even when judges make a mistake, the system says they are right, because a part of the sport (like it or not) is dealing with human error. Perhaps there should be a system for skaters or their teams to contest a technical call like in gymnastics. I like that idea, personally, but of course the ISU doesn’t want to deal with the hassle.

Eteri and Alina will know now to work harder on her lutz edge so that there is no doubt in the judges’ minds that it is a clear outside edge.

She's never had a clear outside edge, it has been flat or slight inside for as long as I remember.

I dont think anyone is taught that the judges cant possibly ever be corrupt.
Theres a difference between possible human error and downright corruption.
Some opinions seem to be suggesting it's some sort of corrupt conspiracy.

(We see the conspiracy argument all the time though, I struggle to take them seriously)

 

[Mishaminion]

It's interesting to read what you're saying though. Change of edge as a fluke mistake like an underrotation. It could be possible, but I'll think about it some other time, now as I mentioned this competition made me bitter.



This is what makes me angry. We've been discussing a presumably wrong edge call and you suddenly say that Alina's lutzes sometimes are flat. Well, flat is not an inside edge.. Even I said that a ! call in this competition would be fine for me, because I also saw a flat edge.

Flat to slight inside... her edge has never been truly outside. It is not impossible for the edge to lean inside far enough, just like the judges nobody is immune to errors

 

[Grin]

Exactly. Eteri teaches her girls that what the judges say is right, like it or not. Even when judges make a mistake, the system says they are right, because a part of the sport (like it or not) is dealing with human error. Perhaps there should be a system for skaters or their teams to contest a technical call like in gymnastics. I like that idea, personally, but of course the ISU doesn’t want to deal with the hassle.

Eteri and Alina will know now to work harder on her lutz edge so that there is no doubt in the judges’ minds that it is a clear outside edge.

I found a cherry for the cake.That guy Jeroen Prins. I was trying to remember the name. It sounded somehow familiar to me. And I remembered that I reacted to one of his posts on twitter in 2018.
https://twitter.com/JeroenPrinsNL/status/996122256668577792?s=20

So it was him who sent an urgent proposal to raise the age bar up to 18 in 2018. He is so so neutral and unbiased I can't.

 

[Mishaminion]

You know Eteri has her methods. And her students never openly complain about their scores. That's how it is. It's up to Eteri and Alina how to react on that call. But her decision to act with grace and doesn't make the call legit.

They can protest to the ISU.

Yuna Kim handled her Sochi silver with grace but the Korean Fed still made a protest to the ISU

 

[Mishaminion]

I found a cherry for the cake.That guy Jeroen Prins. I was trying to remember the name. It sounded somehow familiar to me. And I remembered that I reacted to one of his posts on twitter in 2018.
https://twitter.com/JeroenPrinsNL/status/996122256668577792?s=20

So it was him who sent an urgent proposal to raise the age bar up to 18 in 2018. He is so so neutral I can't.

Ah. So you're already biased against this man and calling him out on a different matter. Makes sense now