2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[zounger]

Very strange that the US skater , Mariah, holds the US flag and represents her country. The 2 Russians represent Eteri.

Some more moments after the ceremony... Alina kisses the flag and gives it back to the fans that gave it to her. And Dudakov as cool he is, invites Mariah for the family photo https://youtu.be/TC7e3M8qyzE?t=1676

 

[zounger]

This is just hilarious:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apNkpGpP4No

It's not easy to distinguish gold from bronze I guess

Not if you are a major, if you are an OGMedalist you notice it directly . That was a great podium, I like Mariah a lot and she was great. I hope I will see Kaori too next time on the podium.

 

[Mishaminion]

Some more moments after the ceremony... Alina kisses the flag and gives it back to the fans that gave it to her. And Dudakov as cool he is, invites Mariah for the family photo https://youtu.be/TC7e3M8qyzE?t=1676

Awwwww, that was lovely of him to do that

 

[nussnacker]

Aliona said she tried learning a 4S.
She said she needs to learn it first before saying anything, since it took her 2 years to learn 3A and 4S is another half-revolution.
She said she tried learning it, but coaches recommended her to wait for now.

I assume, since she was getting injured when learning new jumps, coaches decided to take it slower with 4S. If she's healthy, we might see it though.

The question is... who's getting what faster: Aliona 4S or Sasha 3A?

 

[Mishaminion]

This is just hilarious:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apNkpGpP4No

It's not easy to distinguish gold from bronze I guess

I love how Mariah insisted on putting it around Alyona's neck and shaking her hand! Very funny and sweet, Mariah...she has such a bubbly fun personality.
Alyona and Alina laughing made me smile xD

 

[katymay]

They might mean Veronika Zhilina

sorry, that is who I meant. Thank you.

 

[katymay]

Who did Kostornaia skate with before Eteri? She talked about wanting to be with Eteri, and I wonder what she was like before Eteri-at the top? In the middle? (Results wise)

 

[Mishaminion]

Aliona said she tried learning a 4S.
She said she needs to learn it first before saying anything, since it took her 2 years to learn 3A and 4S is another half-revolution.
She said she tried learning it, but coaches recommended her to wait for now.

I assume, since she was getting injured when learning new jumps, coaches decided to take it slower with 4S. If she's healthy, we might see it though.

The question is... who's getting what faster: Aliona 4S or Sasha 3A?

Sasha seems to throw herself into learning these jumps faster.
It probably is more imperative she gets that 3A, because Alyona has an advantage with the 3A (if clean) in the short and is now hovering around 160 in the FS.

 

[Nord Stream 2]

Aliona said she tried learning a 4S.
She said she needs to learn it first before saying anything, since it took her 2 years to learn 3A and 4S is another half-revolution.
She said she tried learning it, but coaches recommended her to wait for now.

I assume, since she was getting injured when learning new jumps, coaches decided to take it slower with 4S. If she's healthy, we might see it though.

The question is... who's getting what faster: Aliona 4S or Sasha 3A?

I bet on 3A and 4T from Dasha. Think that soon.
Alena first has to beat Rika in Japan. It's a moral imperative.
I'd rather just keep quiet about Sasha.

 

[nussnacker]

Who did Kostornaia skate with before Eteri? She talked about wanting to be with Eteri, and I wonder what she was like before Eteri-at the top? In the middle? (Results wise)

I believe she was with another group at Sambo-70, she was 16th or something at russian junior nationals prior to joining Eteri.

 

[Mawwerg]

Alena was second at Open Moscow Championship in 2015 ten points over Zagitova who was fourth.

 

[Edwin]

Trusova, Shcherbakova and Kostornaya complicated their programs. But Zagitova - not yet: she is not risking quadruples and is inferior to them in content

Caution, now there will be a spoiler about the female figure skating season of 2019/20 - if you do not want to know its plot ahead of time, just skip the next paragraph.

We are at the start of the season of uninhibited domination by Eteri Tutberidze's figure skaters. But this, of course, is not news, even for those who have already have read ahead.

A short synopsis for new readers about today's figure skating: this is the first senior season for Aleksandra Trusova, Anna Shcherbakova and Alyona Kostornaya. A year ago, they performed only among juniors (even in the senior Championship of Russia, but this does not count), and now they are accelerating figure skating to an incredible level.

The three of them haven'tt lost a single start: 5 victories in 5 tournaments. Shcherbakova won at Skate America, Trusova took the Canadian Grand Prix stage - this is if we discard the pre-season challenge. Ahead of the French Grand Prix - with Kostornaya (and, of course, Alina Zagitova) in the lead roles.

The fact that Trusova, Shcherbakova and Kostornaya jumped into the top of women's skating on the move was obvious last season, when they took turns winning the main tournaments of the year: Trusova - in JWC, KostornayaJGP, and Shcherbakova in the senior Championships of Russia.

A few more details from last season:

• Trusova’s sum achieved in JWC 2019 (222.89 - the world junior record) would be included in the top 5 senior results of the 2018/19 season, if in junior programs, as in seniors, the choreographic sequence would counted as a 12th element;

• in their free programs in JWC 2019, Trusova and Shcherbakova gathered fantastic technical bases (78.71 and 70.01) - more than any figure skater from the senior World Championships of 2019. There, the most difficult set (68.75) was performed by Japanese Riki Kihira with two triksels;

• Kostornaya, even without ultra-si jumps, had 62.23 base points in her free program for content - only 2.71 less than world champion Alina Zagitova, but higher than European champion Sof'ya Samodurova.

If you look for a conclusion in these figures, this is obvious: Trusova, Shcherbakova, and Kostornaya had enough potential with their junior set of elements for a top debut in the senior ranks. Even if the'd kept it they would be the favourites of the season.

But for Tutberidze, the transition of three of her pupils to seniors became an occasion to immediately present their unique capabilities.

The programs of Trusova, Shcherbakova and Kostornaya in the off-season went through the maximum upgrade - now their complexity, which already was off the scale, is now beyond the standard capabilities of ordinary skaters.
Graphic

The focus of the Eteri team was on free skating programs - and this is logical. In the short, base values of Trusova and Shcherbakova (33.78) are close to the ceiling for skaters not jumping the triple axel.

With Kostornaya this amount is slightly lower (32.95) - due to the less valuable cascade of Flip - Toeloop, but with the triple Axel there is the prospect of an extra 4.7 points.

But first things first.

Trusova jumps 4 quadruples in her free program - the first ever in women's skating

Last season, Aleksandra Trusova performed her program three times with three quads - at the Grand Prix stage in Kaunas (under rotation on the Lutz, fall on the Toeloop), the Junior World Cup (fall on the Lutz) and in the JGP Final (both Lutz's had big deductions).

In just 2 junior seasons, Trusova performed 17 quads in 9 attempts - more than half - fails. Agree, alarming statistics before her debut.

But Tutberidze introduced another quad, the Salchow, to this 'Game of Thrones'. Trusova in her first junior season, succeeded in only one out of three. Risky, but right now was best time for trying.

In general, to complicate Trusova's program is a maximum level challenge. It's one thing to grow when you have a base of 50 points; the other is to improve from a sky-high 85.

Formally, the quadruple Salchow in the program of Sasha took the place of the triple Flip - the remaining elements were preserved only by changing their combination. The solo triple Lutz at the end of the program was dropped, and instead of it a quad Toeloop in cascade appeared (also a bonus one) - this is an additional half point compared to last year.

“I can do a quadruple flip, but due to the fact that I already do a lot of quadruple jumps, it is still unstable. I’ll train it and maybe I’ll put it in the program someday. Now I'm still learning the triple Axel”, so the next challenge for Trusova and Tutberidze has already been outlined.

And, perhaps, we will learn about its successful implementation soon.

Kostornaya - the only Tutberidze figure skater with a triple Axel

The element was premiered 2 weeks ago at the Finlandia Trophy - Alyona Kostornaya had been preparing for it for more than two years. Of the two planned axels, only the on in cascade turned out to be clean - on the solo, the judges saw an under rotation.

Perhaps a triksel is even more profitable than a quad (although it is valued lower by 1.5-3.5) - it (unlike quadruples) can be inserted into a short program. Alyona has already planned this at the French Grand Prix - potentially this is a advantage of 4.7 points over the rest after the first day.

The appearance of triple Axels has brought about global changes to Alyona's free program:

1) of last year’s elements, only the double Axel, the triple Rittberger and the cascade of Flip - Toeloop remained intact;

2) one of the double Axels was discarded - in this set it simply turned out to be superfluous;

3) in cascades Alyona now jumps only once the double and triple Toeloop;

4) a supernova cascade of triple Flip - Euler - Salchow appeared - the most valuable in Kostornaya's program;

5) the triple Lutz was turned from a cascade into a solo jump was moved to the end of he program instead of a Flip.

All this strengthened last year's base by 7.92 points: Alyona is now the third skater in the world in terms of the complexity of the free program.

Shcherbakova now has the most difficult cascade in women's skating

The quadruple Lutz - triple Toeloop is an asset that no one in the world has. Another new product from Eteri, who works full force towards reinforcements, with serious risks - until the senior Grand Prix, 4 attempts at the quadruple Lutz out of 6 for Anna Shcherbakova ended in failure.

In fact, replacing a triple Flip with a second quadruple Lutz is the change in Shcherbakova’s set of jumping content. But there were also a couple of cosmetic ones - the Rittberger has shifted to a cascade with the Lutz (0.07 additional points for execution in the bonus zone), and instead of a layback spin, a jump into camel spin.

Shcherbakova’s technical base grew by 6.77 points, and last year’s backlog from Trusova in technique decreased from 11 to 9 points.

And Alina?

Zagitova's best content mark from the past is 64.94, and this is the ceiling for a program without ultra-si elements. It is clear that against a base value of 80 she is almost without options - even with dozens of components.

In addition, her Cleopatra, compared to last year's Carmen, lost another half point due to the movement of the Lutz-Rittberger cascade to the beginning of the program - a signal that for Alina, quality of execution is now more important than increasing her base value.

The complication of Zagitova's programs is not a new topic. A year ago, Eteri explained a lot: “We tried to work on the quads. We did this a year before the Olympics, but then quitted, because every jump is a risk. Even if an athlete knows how to do them, it is still a risk. When we've been close we would continue to work on it. But now Alina has grown, physiological changes have occurred, so we are not dealing with quadruples.”

True, at the end of the year, a training video with Alina training a quadruple flip on the fishing rod and harness circled around the world.

But before the start of the 2019/20 season, Alina abandoned her plans to strengthen her content.

“Will I complicate the program? This season, no, ” her clear answer immediately after the September Open Test Skates. Zagitova arrived at the French stage with the same content.

But perhaps Grenoble will inspire Alina and Eteri to progress. They know better than anyone that figure skating is now indispensable without improved technical content.
-----
https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/allresp/2622589.html

Some other blog postings you can view and interpret for yourself:

The trainers made Zagitova laugh after her skating: a cute gesture with pillows-hearts: https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/figureice/2623528.html

“Why am I even straining myself?!” Alyona Kostornaya’s emotions after an deducted jump: https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/allresp/2623501.html

 

[Artemisa]

Aliona said she tried learning a 4S.
She said she needs to learn it first before saying anything, since it took her 2 years to learn 3A and 4S is another half-revolution.
She said she tried learning it, but coaches recommended her to wait for now.

I assume, since she was getting injured when learning new jumps, coaches decided to take it slower with 4S. If she's healthy, we might see it though.

The question is... who's getting what faster: Aliona 4S or Sasha 3A?

But before she already had said that was more mentally the reason she didn't get 3A before ... she have a lot of good 3 ...maybe trying other than the 4S ... her 3F was of otherworld ...

I think Aliona will win that race ... For some reason 3A escapes Sasha that's the reason she is focus in the 4 ... even in man are many that are great jumping thr 4 but fail in the 3A

 

[Tolstoj]

Thoughts on the russians at the Internationaux de France:

- Alena Kostornaya: The free program is growing on me, you can see she likes to skate it, she had fun on the ice especially on the last part of the program, the first part has big technical contents but also seamless transitions throughout, and the flip-toe is timed perfectly with the music and the result is very effective.

The lutz edge looks far better than the past seasons.

I still think her SP needs rework, that steps sequence makes her look very stiff despite she is totally capable of skating with more flow and lightness.

The 3A are very impressive with the difficult entry, but she still needs to work on the landing position.

- Alina Zagitova, not the most favourable judging for her, some UR calls were a bit questionable but so they were for other skaters like Kaori Sakamoto.

That said, this wasn't her best outing, the 3ltz-3lo looked scrappy in both programs, she fell on the first lutz in the long, still she fought to make all the combos happen and ended up with a silver which isn't a bad result at all.

I had already expressed my thoughts on the programs, i like both of them, i think these are the best programs she has ever had in her career. I really like her transitions into the 3flip in the short, and the steps sequence to the music are nice as well.

- Maria Sotskova - Despite the writing was on the wall, this was still a shock for me.

She went to all her recent competitions completely unpreparred, and yes she is going to college but so Nathan Chen and so many other skaters are.

Spanish commentator, Paloma rightfully said that this was awkward to see those scores, Masha is a skater capable of SOOOO much more, it's like they all gave up and the team is okay with it.

I don't get it: CSKA is more and more looking like the kiss of death for all these russian girls, and i know it may sound rude because i think coaches there very much accept whatever the skaters want to do: if the athlete wants to compete and win they'll help them, if he/she doesn't, they will be okay too.

This is certainly a more relaxed approach than what we saw from other coaching teams, at the same i think most of the coach's job is on motivating the athlete to achieve more, who's benefiting from sending completely unpreparred skaters to international competitions? it's like nobody care.

Coaches will get paid anyway, skaters will get paid as long as RusFed wants, but reputation certainly is affected.

If this is an organization issue, coaches should take note from the North American way with more intensive efficient training sessions despite less on-ice work.

It sounds like some posters are trying to insult Mariah for having success at a later age. How disappointing. If you’re a fan of skating you should be supportive of all skaters. Not just the ones that are a blip on the radar

I'm glad she finally reached the podium on a GP stage.

I like the way she skates and performs at the same time, TES wise in the free she could aim for more with a second 3-3 or a 2a-3t (which i think will happen at some point in the future)

 

[Jontor]

*UPDATED* Russian Ladies in the SB list after GP France and CS Asian Open - 18 (of 30) events

1 (1) - Alexandra Trusova 241.02 - GP Skate Canada
2 (2) - Alena Kostornaia 236.00 - GP Internationaux de France
4 (4) - Anna Shcherbakova 227.76 - GP Skate America
5 (5) - Kamila Valieva (J) 221.95 - JGP Chelyabinsk
7 (7) - Evgenia Medvedeva 217.43 - CS Autumn Classic
9 (new) - Alina Zagitova 216.06 - GP Internationaux de France
10 (9) - Ksenia Sinitsyna 215.58 - JGP Egna/Neumarkt
11 (10) - Elizaveta Tuktamysheva 214.38 - CS Lombardia Trophy
17 (16) - Viktoria Vasilieva 198.79 - JGP Chelyabinsk
19 (17) - Daria Usacheva (J) 197.19 - JGP Croatia Cup
20 (18) - Anastasia Tarakanova 194.74 - JGP Baltic Cup
24 (22) - Maiia Khromykh (J) 190.73 - JGP Riga Cup
------------------------------------------
25 (23) - Sofia Samodurova 187.16 - CS Ice Star Minsk
30 (29) - Anna Frolova (J) 181.96 - JGP Croatia Cup
43 (42) - Serafima Sakhanovich 175.97 - GP Skate Canada
60 (57) - Stanislava Konstantinova 162.25 - CS Nepela Memorial
76 (72) - Maria Sotskova 155.25 - CS Nepela Memorial


Half of the SB24 are Russian Ladies! Next week: GP China with Shcherbakova, Tuktamysheva, Samodurova

Top 24 in the SB list, except juniors (J), are guaranteed at least one spot at the senior GP next year
Last year, to be in the Top 24 in the Seasons Best List you had to score 196.34

Still to skate: Nugumanova, Kanysheva (if she goes to JW)

 

[Scott512]

If you read the posts carefully, both Scott and I have stated that it is highly commendable when a skater continues to work, improve, and achieve competitive success past traditional retirement age (through ethical means and under fair judging of course). We were only objecting to the assertion that Mariah Bell deserved silver over Alina Zagitova. Which is NOT the case, and fortunately did not happen, no matter how much the panel fiddled with the numbers and searched for every single possible pretext to subtract points from Alina's scores. I am very happy when a US lady wins a medal, but at the same time I want that to happen because they have earned it through hard work and genuine competitiveness, as opposed to their rivals underperforming or double standards being applied in evaluating skaters.

thank you Icy. it's ridiculous for anyone to think that I would be trashing a skater for having success in their 20s. on the contrary I always come in them and say they should be an inspiration to the younger Russian girls who have been blown away by 4A and must feel like they have no future. I use the examples of the three Anastasia's and Nugumanova. They have been literally blown away by 4A. But it's important for them to keep plugging away because you never know when one of them might improve by 15 or 20 points and become world-class skaters like they are capable of becoming.

Thoughts on the russians at the Internationaux de France:

- Alena Kostornaya: The free program is growing on me, you can see she likes to skate it, she had fun on the ice especially on the last part of the program, the first part has big technical contents but also seamless transitions throughout, and the flip-toe is timed perfectly with the music and the result is very effective.

The lutz edge looks far better than the past seasons.

I still think her SP needs rework, that steps sequence makes her look very stiff despite she is totally capable of skating with more flow and lightness.

The 3A are very impressive with the difficult entry, but she still needs to work on the landing position.

- Alina Zagitova, not the most favourable judging for her, some UR calls were a bit questionable but so they were for other skaters like Kaori Sakamoto.

That said, this wasn't her best outing, the 3ltz-3lo looked scrappy in both programs, she fell on the first lutz in the long, still she fought to make all the combos happen and ended up with a silver which isn't a bad result at all.

I had already expressed my thoughts on the programs, i like both of them, i think these are the best programs she has ever had in her career. I really like her transitions into the 3flip in the short, and the steps sequence to the music are nice as well.

- Maria Sotskova - Despite the writing was on the wall, this was still a shock for me.

She went to all her recent competitions completely unpreparred, and yes she is going to college but so Nathan Chen and so many other skaters are.

Spanish commentator, Paloma rightfully said that this was awkward to see those scores, Masha is a skater capable of SOOOO much more, it's like they all gave up and the team is okay with it.

I don't get it: CSKA is more and more looking like the kiss of death for all these russian girls, and i know it may sound rude because i think coaches there very much accept whatever the skaters want to do: if the athlete wants to compete and win they'll help them, if he/she doesn't, they will be okay too.

This is certainly a more relaxed approach than what we saw from other coaching teams, at the same i think most of the coach's job is on motivating the athlete to achieve more, who's benefiting from sending completely unpreparred skaters to athlete? it's like nobody care.

Coaches will get paid anyway, skaters will get paid as long as RusFed wants, but reputation certainly is affected.

If this is an organization issue, coaches should take note from the North American way with more intensive efficient training sessions despite less on-ice work.



I'm glad she finally reached the podium on a GP stage.

I like the way she skates and performs at the same time, TES wise in the free she could aim for more with a second 3-3 or a 2a-3t (which i think will happen at some point in the future)

thank you for such a detailed and professional comments. I'm particularly sad for Maria and for the Federation for giving her a valuable Grand Prix spot. I am sure the Federation is bewildered at her performances. They showed tremendous faith in her. I hope Maria just skates for fun now and enjoys it. And Serafima only scored 175 at Skate Canada. The Federation cannot be pleased. They awarded these two young ladies who had less than mediocre seasons last season and Serafima didn't even make Nationals and then they give them two incredibly valuable Grand Prix spots. A lot of people did not agree with those decisions and we were proven right. I thought Serafima was skating well heading into Skate Canada yet she scored only 175. I was expecting 190 to 200. I think the days of the Russian Federation giving these two wonderful young ladies the benefit of the doubt in the future is highly unlikely. But we can only wish them the best.

 

[Mishaminion]

But before she already had said that was more mentally the reason she didn't get 3A before ... she have a lot of good 3 ...maybe trying other than the 4S ... her 3F was of otherworld ...

I think Aliona will win that race ... For some reason 3A escapes Sasha that's the reason she is focus in the 4 ... even in man are many that are great jumping thr 4 but fail in the 3A

Yes, Nathan is quad king but struggled with 3A, it has got better but he still does sometimes.

But it can work both ways, hardly any lady with a 3A also manages a quad.

That may change, there are some doing it or capable of doing it.

Even Midori Ito with her HUUUUGE 3A and other jumps didn't have a competition ready quad, or Tonya Harding...although both did try them in practice.

 

[Mishaminion]

This is true. In every sport the champ gets the calls in a close contest. To beat the champ you have to knock her out -- you cannot expect any help from the judges.

Alyona truly was in a league of her own

 

[Tolstoj]

thank you Icy. it's ridiculous for anyone to think that I would be trashing a skater for having success in their 20s. on the contrary I always come in them and say they should be an inspiration to the younger Russian girls who have been blown away by 4A and must feel like they have no future. I use the examples of the three Anastasia's and Nugumanova. They have been literally blown away by 4A. But it's important for them to keep plugging away because you never know when one of them might improve by 15 or 20 points and become world-class skaters like they are capable of becoming.

thank you for such a detailed and professional comments. I'm particularly sad for Maria and for the Federation for giving her a valuable Grand Prix spot. I am sure the Federation is bewildered at her performances. They showed tremendous faith in her. I hope Maria just skates for fun now and enjoys it. And Serafima only scored 175 at Skate Canada. The Federation cannot be pleased. They awarded these two young ladies who had less than mediocre seasons last season and Serafima didn't even make Nationals and then they give them two incredibly valuable Grand Prix spots. A lot of people did not agree with those decisions and we were proven right. I thought Serafima was skating well heading into Skate Canada yet she scored only 175. I was expecting 190 to 200. I think the days of the Russian Federation giving these two wonderful young ladies the benefit of the doubt in the future is highly unlikely. But we can only wish them the best.

It's interesting cause i think Serafima and Maria results are very different.

Serafima was trained for the season, she did well at early Cup of Russia events, you can see it in her stamina, in her spins,... unfortunately her trip to Canada was not very successful, because she made mistakes but that can happen for many reasons: lack of experience on an international stage or just a bad day.

It wasn't a complete bomb, 175 points is not a great score but not terrible either, and to be fair her chances to medal on that tough event were almost none anyway.

Were the other skaters who didn't get the assignment really that much better?

Considering Tarusina retired for too many injuries, you have Nugumanova, Gubanova, Guliakova and frankly they were all on a similar level or even worse.

While Sotskova showed up at all the events with not enough runthroughs, not enough training, almost old-school soviet thinking: you train during the actual event, which is an absurd way of thinking under the IJS system in such a competitive field.

You can clearly see this with the lack of stamina and speed on the jumps, spins, everything.

It's different even from someone like Konstantinova who i believe trains the single elements well, she just struggles to bring it together in competition.

I guess RusFed or the coaches sent her to the events anyway in hope that after one meltdown or two she would have understood that more work is needed to achieve better results, but it has been more than a year like this.

It's hard to point fingers without knowing who is really pushing this: is it the skater who is giving up but still compete because money and other benefits, is it the coach who can't work with skaters without spending the whole day on ice, is it the club who forces skaters to show up anyway just to not lend these spots to other competing clubs.

What's important here for her is to set goals, even if she doesn't want to reach her old form, at least work on a schedule aimed at bringing improvements.

 

[Seren]

Alena was magical. She is a complete skater, I am curious what her PCS will be compared to the other first year Russian seniors. She is in a league of her own in components. So much natural talent, her skating by itself (without even considering jumps and spins) is gorgeous.

I hope Alina isn’t too disappointed after this weekend. She is basically going through what Evgenia went through the year Alina became a senior. She needs to find the confidence in her own skating irregardless of what other skaters do.

Overall there were some questionable technical calls this weekend but when are there not? The podium ended up correct even if I don’t agree with some of the judging.

And poor Maria, clearly she is having a crisis of confidence.