2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[lusterfan]

Per ISU's Grand Prix Designation of Skaters:

1. Seeded Skaters (#1-6 at Worlds) will be assigned 2 spots.

Alina & Zhenya each get 2 spots​

2. Invited Skaters (#7-13 at Worlds) will be guaranteed to be selected for 2 spots.

Sofia gets 2 spots​

3. Invited Skaters with ISU World Standing Top 24 and ISU Season Bests Top 24 (who aren't already in WS Top 24) will be guaranteed 1 spot. This excludes seeded and invited skaters above.

Guaranteed 1 spot: Maria (WS #9), Stasya (WS #13), Liza (WS #16), Sasha (WS #24); Shcherbakova (SB #9), Kostornaia (SB #11), Serafima (SB #18), Tarusina (SB #20, but stayed Junior), Gubanova (SB #21), Kanysheva (SB #22, but stayed Junior)​

4. Invited Skaters who were medallists at Junior Worlds, or the gold medallist at Junior GPF will be included in the selection process. Note that the rule says included, and not guaranteed.

Included: Sasha (Worlds), Shcherbakova (Worlds), Kostornaia (GPF)​

From my understanding, Feds are mandated to select from the seeded skaters (Worlds #1-6), then the invited skaters (Worlds #7-12), then the remaining invited skaters (WS & SB Top 24). Only after all those skaters have been invited to their guaranteed spots, can they move onto the general pool (Junior Worlds Medallists, JGPF Gold, Season Best Top 75).

Sasha gets her 2nd spot (JWGM), Shcherbakova gets her 2nd spot (JWSM), Kostornaia gets her 2nd spot (JGPFGM). Then, Liza gets her 2nd spot (SB #2). And I'm assuming RusFed selected Stasya as the host spot for her 2nd spot, although her SB #23 was enough for a 2nd spot.​

After all aforementioned skaters have been invited in that order, feds are then supposed to confirm if the invited skater will participate in the GP.

Therefore, Gubanova was mandated to be selected for a 1st spot before a 2nd spot could be given to anyone but Alina/Zhenya/Sofia. I'm guessing RusFed decided not to confirm her selection.

Disclaimer that I do not think Maria should have been denied her GP spot. I'm just confused when people state her World Standing (WS) as the reason why she deserved the spot over others. While it's true that her WS earned her a guaranteed spot, we should remember that Gubanova's Season Bests (SB) also guaranteed her a spot. ISU did not state that WS takes precedence over SB.

If we argue that Maria earned her guaranteed spot, then we must also say Gubanova earned her guaranteed spot. Since she was not given her earned guaranteed spot, RusFed effectively chose Maria over Gubanova - which then somewhat legitimizes the question as to why Maria deserved it more than Gubanova?

 

[Mishaminion]

ISU doesn't state that WS is more important than SB.

It doesn't matter.

What matters is how RusFed decided things, and clearly Maria's achievements over a longer period of time that kept her so high in WS counted for something.

It doesn't matter who agrees or disagrees with that decision as it wasn't ours to make.

 

[Jontor]

Juniors?

If not...

Too many skaters, not enough places to give them.

It's a tough situation, and impossible to be fair to everyone no matter what choices are made.

The assignment system was never designed for this situation, where one country would have so many skaters meeting the guarantee requirements.

Maria was probably chosen based on still being top 10 in WS with only 2 Russians higher than her. To me that sounds reasonable, given the circumstances.

Yes, RusFed probably prioritized the WS list. That's the only explanation I can think of.

But it's not logical when you look at the SB list, where Maria is only the 15th eligible Russian lady. (Also Leonova, Tarakanova, Guliakova, Vasilieva had better SB, but they were outside the Top24).

RusFed tries to keep as many as possible as Juniors because they have to (Tarusina, Tarakanova, Vasilieva). Any other federation would have sent those girls to senior GPs.

As for Leonova, Gubanova and Guliakova, they are seniors in a country where there is no place for them. And Nugumanova and Talalaykina didn't even get a chance last year to get on the SB list.

 

[lusterfan]

ISU doesn't state that WS is more important than SB.

It doesn't matter.

What matters is how RusFed decided things, and clearly Maria's achievements over a longer period of time that kept her so high in WS counted for something.

It doesn't matter who agrees or disagrees with that decision as it wasn't ours to make.

I agree. But this doesn't answer what some people are asking: Should RusFed have decided that Maria deserved it more than Gubanova? I think it's fair to say her WS #9 deserved the spot more, but it's also still fair for people to question that and say Gubanova's higher scores deserved the spot. Both are equally legitimate.

Also, technically Gubanova should have gotten a 1st spot before others got their 2nd spot. It makes sense for RusFed to prioritize skaters getting 2 spots over more skaters getting 1 spot - just sucks for Gubanova to have been in that position even though she earned a spot according to ISU.

 

[Mishaminion]

I agree. But this doesn't answer what some people are asking: Should RusFed have decided that Maria deserved it more than Gubanova? I think it's fair to say her WS #9 deserved the spot more, but it's also still fair for people to question that and say Gubanova's higher scores deserved the spot. Both are equally legitimate.

Of course they are, but with maxed out spots, not everyone could have one. It isn't fair but the choice had to be made somehow.

 

[Jontor]

I agree. But this doesn't answer what some people are asking: Should RusFed have decided that Maria deserved it more than Gubanova? I think it's fair to say her WS #9 deserved the spot more, but it's also still fair for people to question that and say Gubanova's higher scores deserved the spot. Both are equally legitimate.

Also, technically Gubanova should have gotten a 1st spot before others got their 2nd spot. It makes sense for RusFed to prioritize skaters getting 2 spots over more skaters getting 1 spot - just sucks for Gubanova to have been in that position even though she earned a spot according to ISU.

And ironically, Gubanova and Sotskova skated just a few hours apart this Saturday.

Sotskova scored 144 points. Her protocols were infested with >'s

Gubanova scored 197 points. It was not her best, and sure, homescoring. But still very good.

It's inevitable to not make the comparison.

 

[Mishaminion]

And ironically, Gubanova and Sotskova skated just a few hours apart this Saturday.

Sotskova scored 144 points. Her protocols was infested with >'s

Gubanova scored 197 points. It was not her best, and sure, homescoring. But still very good.

It's inevitable to not make the comparison.

Hindsight is a luxury nobody had when the assignments were made.

Despite Maria's poor season, nobody knew that it would be even worse now. She could have got it together over the summer.

That 144 total score is painful to see.
This is a young woman who only 2 years ago won GPF Silver with 142+ in her FS alone.

 

[Edwin]

Interesting live streams at Sport Ekspress: https://youtu.be/XdCqBNFNccU
And Figurka, Emma has Anna Pogorylaya for guest: https://youtu.be/kqvNcTOJ0Es
About GPdeFrance

 

[Jontor]

Interesting live streams at Sport Ekspress: https://youtu.be/XdCqBNFNccU
And Figurka, Emma has Anna Pogoryeleva for guest: https://youtu.be/kqvNcTOJ0Es
About GPdeFrance

Great to see Pogorilaya again! But I don't understand a word...

A recap anyone?

 

[Edwin]

Is Panenkova even still competing at all?

Panenkova apparently already in trouble over that interview: https://sport24.ru/news/other/2019-...-obsuzhdala-yeye-oshibki-na-gran-pri-frantsii

 

[Mishaminion]

Panenkova apparently already in trouble over that interview: https://sport24.ru/news/other/2019-...-obsuzhdala-yeye-oshibki-na-gran-pri-frantsii

Oh dear.

If that is true? I don't always believe everything I read.


Rodina likes to stir #$&@

On the one hand I feel sorry for Darya that she was probably just used by that God awful woman. She tricks people in to saying things and turns it in to drama when it was probably meant perfectly innocently.


On the other hand, surely she or someone close to her knew what she was getting in to.

I'd be surprised at Alina to be that petty, deleting Darya off her Instagram, doesn't sound like Alina to me.

 

[[email protected]]

Panenkova apparently already in trouble over that interview: https://sport24.ru/news/other/2019-...-obsuzhdala-yeye-oshibki-na-gran-pri-frantsii

It was hardly a smart idea to give an interview to Rodina.

At the same time Alina gave an interview to TASS https://tass.ru/interviews/7075777

Key points:

1. She does not grow any more. She has stopped at 160 cm
2. She won't introduce quads before she loses at least 3 kilos.
3. On Trusova and Co.
"I don't have the goal to compete with them - I go to the ice to skate. I want it more than to be on the podium. The girls' attitude to that is still a bit childish - I understand them as nobody else would. I used to be the same just a while ago. We talk every day on every possible topics including the craziest".
4. On IdF judging:
"It was some serious judging. There were moments that I did not agree with. But in general it all makes sense. They are judges - it was their opinion. Everything changes including the rules of figure skating. These are the conditions we have to live in. One has to be ready to everything".

What a classy thoughtful person at her 17 years of age. And some people keep telling us about "human cost"...

 

[ruga]

But what has Daria said that caused controversy? I remember she has mentioned that Alina had problems with wrong edge when she first came to TeamTut and that she could have had problems with it in France, even if unnoticeable for average viewer. Was there anything else important that she spoke about?

 

[monochrom3]

I'd be surprised at Alina to be that petty, deleting Darya off her Instagram, doesn't sound like Alina to me.

Hardly petty at all, I’d have done that and a whole lot more myself if I was her. Unfollowing is the least she could do.
If you consider yourself a friend of any sort, on what planet would it be okay for you to give an interview and say unflattering things about your friend to a ‘journalist’ (and i use this broadly) who is known to outright slander and send absolutely disgusting messages about Alina?

I mean, to draw a comparison to illustrate, imagine if Hermione Granger suddenly went up to Rita Skeeter to drop the tea on Harry Potter after Rita Skeeter slanders him in public.

 

[Mishaminion]

Hardly petty at all, I’d have done that and a whole lot more myself if I was her. Unfollowing is the least she could do.
If you consider yourself a friend of any sort, on what planet would it be okay for you to give an interview and say unflattering things about your friend to a ‘journalist’ (and i use this broadly) who is known to outright slander and send absolutely disgusting messages about Alina?

I mean, to draw a comparison to illustrate, imagine if Hermione Granger suddenly went up to Rita Skeeter to drop the tea on Harry Potter after Rita Skeeter slanders him in public.

I see what you mean.

But do we know exactly what Darya is supposed to have said that offended her so much?

 

[nussnacker]

I'd be surprised at Alina to be that petty, deleting Darya off her Instagram, doesn't sound like Alina to me.

Is it petty to unfollow people who go to discuss you behind your back with the person who threatened to slash your face?
But I don't think Alina did that, it's the media outlet that's making these conclusions.
Alina unfollows people from time to time, just because. She unfollowed a lot of people some time ago, and no one knows when exactly she unfollowed Daria. She unfollowed Kostornaya and Trusova too, so... no big deal. (in fact I believe she doesn't follow anyone from Sambo-70 besides Anna)

Regardless of the issue, I believe reducing negativity by not communicating with people who do/say negative things to/about you seems to be like a wise and healthy choice.

 

[Mishaminion]

Is it petty to unfollow people who go to discuss you behind your back with the person who threatened to slash your face?
But I don't think Alina did that, it's the media outlet that's making these conclusions.
Alina unfollows people from time to time, just because. She unfollowed a lot of people some time ago, and no one knows when exactly she unfollowed Daria. She unfollowed Kostornaya and Trusova too, so... no big deal. (in fact I believe she doesn't follow anyone from Sambo-70 besides Anna)

Regardless of the issue, I believe reducing negativity by not communicating with people who do/say negative things to/about you seems to be like a wise and healthy choice.

I mean the article straight up claims she unfollowed her because of the interview.

So it is creating drama of it's own.

Who knows how long she's been unfollowed for, it isn't like anyone could really check now.

I don't think Darya meant any harm doing that interview and I certainly don't think she really knows what a nasty creature Rodina is.

 

[Tolstoj]

I'm a bit conflicted on this issue. On one hand, It would be nice to see skaters like Gubanova on the Grand Prix, and they might have done better than Maria did.
On the other hand, I feel like this is some kind of gesture towards the once prominent skaters to have a final Grand Prix assignment. I mean Maria was a World-class figure skater for two seasons, and she represented her country at the Olympic Games.

We might witness some currently prominent skaters in a similar situtation a few years from now given the rate Russian Ladies FS is progressing.
Maria had the oppurtunity to go, and she decised to take it. She is a human being, not a product which once stops working should be tossed away. I'm sure this competition meant a lot to her family, friends and fans.

For me it's not much about RusFed "wasting" spots that but rather: you knew this was going to happen 2 months ago why nobody tried to prevent this, and improve, cause you look at her performances in September and what she did few days ago and not much has changed.

You look at other skaters who also started bad and in 2 months they improved a lot on everything, there was enough time.

My guess is that much like Tsurskaya (who stated during interviews last season that she wanted to move away from the sport, and essentially retired due to lack of interest), she is almost done with Figure Skating, she is probably going to retire after Nationals, so maybe the coach thinks it's not worth to spend much time with her, i don't know.

But even if that is the case, as a coach i'd try everything i can to motivate her to at least end on an high note and not this way, also if she just doesn't want to jump anymore i'd suggest her to move to Ice Dance, cause she has good skating skills, good posture, and good lines.

 

[Fool]

I don't think Darya meant any harm doing that interview and I certainly don't think she really knows what a nasty creature Rodina is.

OK but Alina does know that so it's not petty of her to avoid these people.

 

[Happy Skates]

It was hardly a smart idea to give an interview to Rodina.

At the same time Alina gave an interview to TASS https://tass.ru/interviews/7075777

Key points:

1. She does not grow any more. She has stopped at 160 cm
2. She won't introduce quads before she loses at least 3 kilos.
3. On Trusova and Co.
"I don't have the goal to compete with them - I go to the ice to skate. I want it more than to be on the podium. The girls' attitude to that is still a bit childish - I understand them as nobody else would. I used to be the same just a while ago. We talk every day on every possible topics including the craziest".
4. On IdF judging:
"It was some serious judging. There were moments that I did not agree with. But in general it all makes sense. They are judges - it was their opinion. Everything changes including the rules of figure skating. These are the conditions we have to live in. One has to be ready to everything".

What a classy thoughtful person at her 17 years of age. And some people keep telling us about "human cost"...

What a lovely human being. Just from that Kiss and Cry after the Olympics, you can tell that she's a humble girl. I know some people will say that she's "just saying these things" or something like that, but I don't think that happy look in the K and C was just acting... these girls usually say when they are upset with a result anyways. And after all she's been through, she deserves to be happy. She's the Olympic and World Champion after all. I hope she has a blast skating in Japan.