2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[ec00834]

I wasnt talking about Satoko's edges, I was talking about her URs, after multiple replays I think there is a downgrade in SP and 5 UR in FS.

She got hit with three only in FS and two in SP (but not downgraded), judges are certainly stricter on her than they used to be, quite often her URs were completely ignored... so I suppose being hit with 5 in total across the competition is a start.

You said in your eyes, Anna's edges were flat. That's not an absurd statement. But in my eyes, Satoko's were flat too. And so were Amber's. And so were Sofia's.

 

[grem]

Anna has the weakest Lutz edge of the younger Eteri Seniors.

Anna is the only Lady in the World who jumps two 4Lz in her FS, and they are absolutely amazing.

 

[Mishaminion]

How about this Glenn's edge? http://prntscr.com/putjvw

Hard to tell, she hasn't even picked in on that photo. But having seen her edges previously I would say it could be flat.

I am not denying other skaters have edge issues or that they should have been called for them and for whatever reason were not. Your photo is not clear or at the point it needs to be at. Amber got some URs and was not exactly a podium threat despite 3rd in SP, so it doesn't make any difference to Anna if any of Amber's edges were not called

But Anna does have edge issues, and she did get called for them. For whatever reason they were clear enough to be called.

I want consistent but strict judging where everyone is dinged across the board if they deserve it.
But I also recognise judges are only human.
This inconsistency happens a lot, throughout different judging systems and disciplines. It is not new or restricted to Russians

 

[ec00834]

Hard to tell, she hasn't even picked in on that photo. But having seen her edges previously I would say it could be flat.

I am not denying other skaters have edge issues or that they should have been called for them and for whatever reason were not. Your photo is not clear or at the point it needs to be at. Amber got some URs and was not exactly a podium threat despite 3rd in SP, so it doesn't make any difference to Anna if any of Amber's edges were not called

But Anna does have edge issues, and she did get called for them. For whatever reason they were clear enough to be called.

I want consistent but strict judging where everyone is dinged across the board if they deserve it.
But I also recognise judges are only human.
This inconsistency happens a lot, throughout different judging systems and disciplines. It is not new or restricted to Russians

Nobody else is getting called but... Oh yes, all these sudden calls are perfectly normal!

 

[Mishaminion]

Anna is the only Lady in the World who jumps two 4Lz in her FS, and they are absolutely amazing.

I agree with you. She is amazing

But she is not perfect

Neither is four quad Trusova

Or the new Triple Axel Queen Kostornaia

Or the "veteran" Triple Axel Queen Tuktamysheva

Or Elegant Miyahara

Or Japan's Triple Axel Queen Kihira

Or any skater for that matter.

They all have strengths and weaknesses

And thank god for that or they'd all exactly the same, which is boring

 

[Mishaminion]

Nobody else is getting called but... Oh yes, all these sudden calls are perfectly normal!

I Dont see anyone arguing against the shower of URs that were being dished out like candy.

Some got 4 or 5 of them.

The judging has become somewhat stricter but not strict or consistent enough.

The issue for me is not whether Anna had flat edges or not, she did, and was called for them.

A few other skaters did in fact get edge calls, in the FS

Yujin CHOI KOR Both 3F got !

Kailani CRAINE AUS one 3Lz! and the other 3Lze

Hongyi CHEN CHN Both 3Lz got !

Most skaters got hit with a raft of URs apart from Liza (none) and Anna (just one on first 4Lz)

 

[[email protected]]

To say that judges often show bias in favor of skaters from their own countries -- I would not say that such a statement is a conspiracy theory. For that matter, I wouldn't say that it is a theory at all. I think it is a fact.

And you would name the tech panel composition of the first 4 events a pure coincidence? Well, OK. Let's wait for Moscow not that it's important for anyone but Satoko now. And as I won't fight with "injustice" for her I shall stop with this at CoC.

Let's not find "evil reasons" and consider that it was a coincidence that Satoko received just enough UR calls to narrow win over Liza leaving her 0 GPF chances. And as my eyes do not deceive me and her uncalled 3Lz-3T with +1.43GOE had URs on both jumps with the UR on 3T being a trully eggregious one, let's agree that panel's angle was very different from ours. Ours was just perfect to see during the slow-mo that she did exactly 2 revolutions on 3T with almost 180 degrees UR on landing. The picture this time was perfect and if someone wants to say that 3T was rotated, well, it will be definitely futile to continue. As I can post only 1 picture I shall do it in 2 posts.

 

[Mishaminion]

You said in your eyes, Anna's edges were flat. That's not an absurd statement. But in my eyes, Satoko's were flat too. And so were Amber's. And so were Sofia's.

And there were people other than Anna who got edge calls.

Look

I agree that some calls should have been made but weren't
That isn't anything new despite the increasing strictness.

The strictness was focused on URs mostly although other edge calls were made.

Not enough of them obviously.

It does not mean there is a conspiracy or that the judges have anything against Anna

 

[[email protected]]

The final position on 3T landing

 

[Mishaminion]

Can't you see? It's 1.3 degrees outside! The judges were too busy to look at her edge!

Completely lying about and twisting my words

I said they are not superhuman and might not be able to catch everything in what is a limited amount of time compared to what we have. We're still analysing there edges and URs almost 24 hours later

 

[ancientpeas]

I get that you guys really want to talk about this.. but Satoko is not a Russian lady.

Sam.. if you start a thread or find a thread on UR/Edge calls then others who don't normally come in this thread can contribute their opinions as well. From your picture it does look like Satoko was under here. I'm not saying you don't have the right to complain. Can we do it in a thread other than the Russian Ladies thread, please?

I know that there are users here who know a lot about UR and edge calls but not all of them read the Russian Ladies thread as it is an extremely busy thread where conversation is difficult. Can we please take it somewhere that is more conducive to an actual reasoned debate?

This is really, really cluttering up this thread.

 

[Mishaminion]

And you would name the tech panel composition of the first 4 events a pure coincidence? Well, OK. Let's wait for Moscow not that it's important for anyone but Satoko now. And as I won't fight with "injustice" for her I shall stop with this at CoC.

Let's not find "evil reasons" and consider that it was a coincidence that Satoko received just enough UR calls to narrow win over Liza leaving her 0 GPF chances. And as my eyes do not deceive me and her uncalled 3Lz-3T with +1.43GOE had URs on both jumps with the UR on 3T being a trully eggregious one, let's agree that panel's angle was very different from ours. Ours was just perfect to see during the slow-mo that she did exactly 2 revolutions on 3T with almost 180 degrees UR on landing. The picture this time was perfect and if someone wants to say that 3T was rotated, well, it will be definitely futile to continue. As I can post only 1 picture I shall do it in 2 posts.View attachment 969

Satoko has always been given more of a benefit of the doubt, so much so that when judges did finally start calling her URs many people were shocked and even outraged too.

I still feel she is not punished enough on them, and she's getting higher PCS this season to make up for the larger number of URs called for her here.

To be fair, Liza is entirely responsible for the errors she made in the SP, she was playing catch up. Had she skated the SP like she did her FS Satoko would be going home with bronze IMO

 

[Mishaminion]

Speaking of Liza though to move things away from the judging debate...

I am happy she went back to her old FS, it was so much better than the similar themed but much duller one she had before.
I think she knew she had a better chance with a program she did well with before and loved to perform.

It is such a shame she made mistakes in her SP... a fall on her famous 3A and a 3-2 combo was not the start she wanted in her bid to make the GPF.

Loved her FS, she gave it her all, despite the stumble on a Lutz. I really felt more connection with her program, she had great sass and sells it so much better than the other.

If only she had made that change to the familiar FS earlier.
I still think her SP mistakes are largely down to the amount of changes it has gone through, it ended up a bit of a mess. While completely throwing her new FS in the garbage and using a proven to be successful one was actually kind of genius!

 

[jinhamasaki]

Speaking of Liza though to move things away from the judging debate...

I am happy she went back to her old FS, it was so much better than the similar themed but much duller one she had before.
I think she knew she had a better chance with a program she did well with before and loved to perform.

Jumping on the Liza train, it seems that her conditioning has really improved! She used to slow down in the FS right when the music picks up, but now she's just a burst a of energy - even though she did 2 triple axels earlier! Now it really connects and she really sells it.

Hoping another skater is taking notes instead of focusing on jumps in a harness...

 

[eterialskater]

Hard to tell, she hasn't even picked in on that photo. But having seen her edges previously I would say it could be flat.

I am not denying other skaters have edge issues or that they should have been called for them and for whatever reason were not. Your photo is not clear or at the point it needs to be at. Amber got some URs and was not exactly a podium threat despite 3rd in SP, so it doesn't make any difference to Anna if any of Amber's edges were not called

But Anna does have edge issues, and she did get called for them. For whatever reason they were clear enough to be called.

I want consistent but strict judging where everyone is dinged across the board if they deserve it.
But I also recognise judges are only human.
This inconsistency happens a lot, throughout different judging systems and disciplines. It is not new or restricted to Russians

We don't need any super slow mo clip of any of these skaters edges. The fact is very few people in the world can hold proper edges in both jumps. In the years I've watched figure skating(a decade) I can't count 10 top skaters(which does not include any Olympic Champions FYI) who hold a proper edge in both jumps. Having one good edge and the other a slight edge is already commendable. Does it bother me that Kostornaya has unclear edges in both jumps as my all time favorite Javi did. Not a single bit.

There really should have been more e's and !'s in the last 2 GP's. Instead they made it look like only Eteri girls are the only ones who have this problem. If they are going to be strict with clear edges it is fine but they should do it to everyone, not selectively scrutinizing and undermining one group because they are threatened by their dominance.

 

[Arbitrary]

I can accept the idea the Board had burned Tuktamisheva at stake and asked everyone to forget about this beautiful skater.

I also can accept the fact that Miyahara was just a little bit better "in this particular event". Not "more deserving the GPF".

Sure the crash on SP 3A doomed Liza. Sorry for her.
It may be considered participating in one European event and in the Russian event would benefit her, but apparently the RusFed decided not to risk with more promising skaters.

Memorizing the situation happened in RusNats 2018/9.
Trusova was more daredevilish than Scherbakova. It didn't play well. Judges had to decide who's better "here and now", not how much one better another "absolutely". 0.18 points, less than 0.1% decided gold or silver.
It could easily happen skating the same program 10 times the overall result become quite different, but "today" it was as is.

 

[Vandevska]

Imo every jump from every skater should be additionally reviewed, instead of judges being like "this looked ok in real time". I say introduce slo-mo, and review every single jump pass.
Also, just because only a few skaters can hold proper edges on each jump, it doesn't mean it should be let to slide for the others. I would love to see everyone get dinged for every mistake they made. Why have a poorly judged sport anyway?

 

[flanker]

Are you being sarcastic?

Seems like this is becoming the second most popular question in RLT.

 

[Arbitrary]

Imo every jump from every skater should be additionally reviewed, instead of judges being like "this looked ok in real time". I say introduce slo-mo, and review every single jump pass.
Also, just because only a few skaters can hold proper edges on each jump, it doesn't mean it should be let to slide for the others. I would love to see everyone get dinged for every mistake they made. Why have a poorly judged sport anyway?

The result of per jump analysis brings two big disadvantages:
- Long time before marks announced. Bad for TV.
- Some well established great skaters with a lot of medals may find themselves "not so great".

 

[Globetrotter]

The result of per jump analysis brings two big disadvantages:
- Long time before marks announced. Bad for TV.
- Some well established great skaters with a lot of medals may find themselves "not so great".

Then let’s hope technology come along which can objectively measure rotations and landing. That will be fun. Tennis has Hawkeye to once and for all clear up if the ball is in or out. If the rotation eye can come along for FS, that will be fun. Except that this thread may suddenly shrink in posts as fans no longer have any complaints to ventilate about whether the edge was e or ! and that judges are systematically picking only on certain girls . Enough seen on the call for strict judging but when the real strictness gets applied, folks go into hissy fits.