2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Edwin]

It would help the audience and TV viewers to understand the TES when all deducted calls are played back on the big screen and on TV right after performance and together with a few simple line and arrow graphics explaining why this jump is !, e, <, << etc, and with the TES penalty shown.

There is too little transparancy now. Plus a TES appeal procedure, even if this slows the competition down. Equal calling and fair judging and transparent scoring will raise the image of figure skating as a competitive sport.

 

[Totentanz]

Has anybody make an analysis of GP spots for the next season? I know the current season is not over yet, but there are few opportunities left for making top 24 in the seasons best scores list.

Currently it looks like this for Russian ladies:

1 Alexandra TRUSOVA 241.02
2 Alena KOSTORNAIA 240.00
4 Anna SHCHERBAKOVA 227.76
5 Evgenia MEDVEDEVA 225.76
6 Kamila VALIEVA 221.95
7 Alina ZAGITOVA 217.99
10 Kseniia SINITSYNA 215.58
11 Elizaveta TUKTAMYSHEVA 214.38
18 Viktoria VASILIEVA 198.79
20 Daria USACHEVA 197.19
21 Anastasia TARAKANOVA 194.74

There are eleven ladies in top 24 SB score list right now, with Valieva and Usacheva being not age eligible for senior competitions next season. I guess Sinitsyna might prefer not moving up to seniors, too. It's certain that the other 8 ladies are going to get two spots each, barring injury or withdrawals. Samodurova and Konstantinova are in top 24 World Standings right now, we will see whether they stay the same after the end of the season.

While for the JGP spots Valieva, Usacheva, Khromykh, Frolova are looking as good options at the moment. Who else will be eligible?

 

[Nord Stream 2]

Has anybody make an analysis of GP spots for the next season? I know the current season is not over yet, but there are few opportunities left for making top 24 in the seasons best scores list.

Currently it looks like this for Russian ladies:

1 Alexandra TRUSOVA 241.02
2 Alena KOSTORNAIA 240.00
4 Anna SHCHERBAKOVA 227.76
5 Evgenia MEDVEDEVA 225.76
6 Kamila VALIEVA 221.95
7 Alina ZAGITOVA 217.99
10 Kseniia SINITSYNA 215.58
11 Elizaveta TUKTAMYSHEVA 214.38
18 Viktoria VASILIEVA 198.79
20 Daria USACHEVA 197.19
21 Anastasia TARAKANOVA 194.74

There are eleven ladies in top 24 SB score list right now, with Valieva and Usacheva being not age eligible for senior competitions next season. I guess Sinitsyna might prefer not moving up to seniors, too. It's certain that the other 8 ladies are going to get two spots each, barring injury or withdrawals. Samodurova and Konstantinova are in top 24 World Standings right now, we will see whether they stay the same after the end of the season.

While for the JGP spots Valieva, Usacheva, Khromykh, Frolova are looking as good options at the moment. Who else will be eligible?

I wonder what is stopping her?

 

[Totentanz]

I wonder what is stopping her?

When Sotskova was a junior training with Panova she didn't move up to seniors so quickly, I thought it might be the same with Sinitsyna. She is more sophisticated and looking senior ready than Sotskova was, though.

 

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https://ibb.co/gvWqSKs
and consider this moment to determine edge incline - thus counting it as flat.

I see this one as slightly outside as well. Giving Alina e on her lutz ignoring Mariah's edge during the same competition was one of the most eggregious TP mistakes I have seen. No conspiracy theories that it was done on purpose.

 

[Mishaminion]

I see this one as slightly outside as well. Giving Alina e on her lutz ignoring Mariah's edge during the same competition was one of the most eggregious TP mistakes I have seen. No conspiracy theories that it was done on purpose.

This will always be a problem in a sport judged by the human eye, the mistakes and inconsistency can be reduced by using technology but not entirely.

 

[Miller]

Has anybody make an analysis of GP spots for the next season? I know the current season is not over yet, but there are few opportunities left for making top 24 in the seasons best scores list.

Currently it looks like this for Russian ladies:

1 Alexandra TRUSOVA 241.02
2 Alena KOSTORNAIA 240.00
4 Anna SHCHERBAKOVA 227.76
5 Evgenia MEDVEDEVA 225.76
6 Kamila VALIEVA 221.95
7 Alina ZAGITOVA 217.99
10 Kseniia SINITSYNA 215.58
11 Elizaveta TUKTAMYSHEVA 214.38
18 Viktoria VASILIEVA 198.79
20 Daria USACHEVA 197.19
21 Anastasia TARAKANOVA 194.74

There are eleven ladies in top 24 SB score list right now, with Valieva and Usacheva being not age eligible for senior competitions next season. I guess Sinitsyna might prefer not moving up to seniors, too. It's certain that the other 8 ladies are going to get two spots each, barring injury or withdrawals. Samodurova and Konstantinova are in top 24 World Standings right now, we will see whether they stay the same after the end of the season.

While for the JGP spots Valieva, Usacheva, Khromykh, Frolova are looking as good options at the moment. Who else will be eligible?

Historically you need about 1500 points at the end of the season i.e. after the oldest year's points have been removed, and the next to last converted to 70%. On this basis Sofia (about 2400 already) is guaranteed to get a spot via her World Standing, but Stanislava on 1350 and no more CS's to come - she's out of the Golden Spin - is not.

However there have been a number of skaters you would expect to be in the top 24 WS at the end of the season that have missed the GP season through injury e.g. Mai Mihara, Loena Hendrickx, Laurine Lecavalier etc., so on that basis she may still be OK. However will the Russian Federation want to repeat what happened with her and Maria this season even if she is ‘guaranteed’ a spot?

On a similar basis Viktoria Vasilieva is very close to getting a guaranteed spot. Once you get into Championship season a lot of skaters that might increase their SB and get in the top 24 no longer get the chance because they're from strong skating countries and their representatives are already well embedded in the top 24. Hence it's unlikely 7 skaters below Viktoria will overtake her, plus she already has the JGPF, plus possibly Junior Worlds to come.

At this stage I would say it's virtually certain 16 spots will go to Alexandra, Alena, Anna, Alina, Evgenia, Kseniia, Elizaveta T, 2 each, plus 1 to Sofia and Viktoria, with the remaining 2 to be decided, one of which would very likely go to Sofia or Viktoria - they're probably quite happy to go with 8 with 2, and 2 with 1 like this year, but probably not 7 with 2, and 4 with 1.

 

[Good Vibes Only]

When Sotskova was a junior training with Panova she didn't move up to seniors so quickly, I thought it might be the same with Sinitsyna. She is more sophisticated and looking senior ready than Sotskova was, though.

Maybe, but I would think that Panova would want to move Ksenia to Seniors next season so she could have a break out season before Kamila and co. become seniors. Ksenia could keep her current short and then change her free program, since she has such a beautiful short program. It would be easier for Ksenia to turn Senior next year because she will be one of the only girls age eligible. Ksenia can beat Viktoria V. for two spots and Alena Kanysheva has been injured all season. Ksenia will have less competition for those spots versus if she waits a year. If she decides to wait then she will have to fight with Kamila, Daria, Maya, etc. On top of that, it would be the olympic season.

 

[Totentanz]

Maybe, but I would think that Panova would want to move Ksenia to Seniors next season so she could have a break out season before Kamila and co. become seniors. Ksenia could keep her current short and then change her free program, since she has such a beautiful short program. It would be easier for Ksenia to turn Senior next year because she will be one of the only girls age eligible. Ksenia can beat Viktoria V. for two spots and Alena Kanysheva has been injured all season. Ksenia will have less competition for those spots versus if she waits a year. If she decides to wait then she will have to fight with Kamila, Daria, Maya, etc. On top of that, it would be the olympic season.

That would be very logical for her to move up then. I really like her skating and don't want her to get lost among the Russian talents pool.

 

[Elucidus]

Generous to the audience and not at all to skaters with correct technique. I would strongly disagree about this. Simply letting faults slide is not the solution. This is a sport. Correct technique SHOULD matter.
making the reason for deduction more understandable is a more viable solution. This can be achieved by technology and design.

IMO, if you're a casual viewer like I was many years ago, you get wowed by the performance (hence giving correct PCS is important), and then when you get hooked, you try to learn about the elements on your own time.

Again, "correct technique" is artificial made up term which has nothing to do with reality. What technique can be considered as "correct" if even elementary jumps definitions are absent from ISU rules? When there is nothing about how exactly determine URs, how exactly determine edges? With current state in rules every TC can do what they want with calling - and noone even can raise an objection to it. Unless they'll improve the rules by including detailed procedures of how one or another call should be made - thus not allowing wide margin of various interpretations and, therefore, double standarts in judging - I strongly suggest to let TPs be as lenient as they can. Else inconsitent calling will continue depending on personal preferences of one or another TP. And it's very bad for fs appeal in eyes of viewers - when noone can be sure for what invincible mistakes their favorite skater can be punished.
Moreover, one can even raise a general question - should be something invincible be punished at all? For whom rules exists in the first place - for judges, athletes, viewers? What purpose one or another rule serves - to make this sport more beautiful and pleasant to watch? Or just to sink it in bureaucratic technicalities which serves no purpose except giving more power to judges? Who is more important for the sport - judges or viewers? Sometimes I think ISU is forgetting why they are doing what they are doing in first place

 

[Resa]

Again, "correct technique" is artificial made up term which has nothing to do with reality. What technique can be considered as "correct" if even elementary jumps definitions are absent from ISU rules? When there is nothing about how exactly determine URs, how exactly determine edges? With current state in rules every TC can do what they want with calling - and noone even can raise an objection to it. Unless they'll improve the rules by including detailed procedures of how one or another call should be made - thus not allowing wide margin of various interpretations and, therefore, double standarts in judging - I strongly suggest to let TPs be as lenient as they can. Else inconsitent calling will continue depending on personal preferences of one or another TP. And it's very bad for fs appeal in eyes of viewers - when noone can be sure for what invincible mistakes their favorite skater can be punished.
Moreover, one can even raise a general question - should be something invincible be punished at all? For whom rules exists in the first place - for judges, athletes, viewers? What purpose one or another rule serves - to make this sport more beautiful and pleasant to watch? Or just to sink it in bureaucratic technicalities which serves no purpose except giving more power to judges? Who is more important for the sport - judges or viewers? Sometimes I think ISU is forgetting why they are doing what they are doing in first place

The rules exist for the athletes and viewers to know who won and to establish a ranking. It's a competition after all.

 

[Jontor]

The rules exist for the athletes and viewers to know who won and to establish a ranking. It's a competition after all.

But if the viewers don't understand the rules, then we have a problem...

 

[LenaRadiFan]

But if the viewers don't understand the rules, then we have a problem...

I would argue that people that are slowly more than a casual viewer or even just ask themselves "hmmm why did the TES get shaved off?" At one point actually make an effort to understand the rules, like in any other sport

 

[Autumn Leaves]

This is the first weekend in a while without a skating event and I feel weird... Have been following the sport for only a year and a half and am already addicted On the one hand, I can’t wait for the next weekend when all four As will compete for the first time! On the other, I am already heart broken because at least one of them will not make to poduim...

 

[SnowWhite]

In terms of the GP next season, Trusova, Kostornaya, Shcherbakova, Medvedeva, Zagitova, Sinitsyna, and Tuktamysheva should be good for 2 spots from SB, leaving 4 spots. I do think Ksenia will move up.

Currently Vasilieva and Tarakanova are both in the top 24 SB as well. I think Viktoria is pretty safe to stay there, but Anastasia is not. By my calculations for WS, Sofia is sure to be top 24 at the end of the season, but Stasya is on the bubble. Sofia has another chance to up her SB at Golden Spin. Anastasia's only chances would be YOG or JW. For Stanislava, she could do some senior B in the spring. Those don't count for SB, but they do have WS. 250 if you win. That would help keep her in top 24 WS.

My guess would be that of the four spots remaining, Viktoria and Sofia will both get at least one as others have said. If Stasya holds on to top 24 WS, I think she'll get one. I'm not sure Anastasia would get a spot even if she does stay in the top 24 SB, if she's at the bottom of the list. It would help her if Stasya doesn't get any spots, I guess.

So I think:
- 2: Sasha, Alena, Anna, Evgenia, Alina, Kseniia, Liza
- 1-2: Viktoria, Sofia
- 0-1: Stanislava, Anastasia T

 

[Happy Skates]

Has anybody make an analysis of GP spots for the next season? I know the current season is not over yet, but there are few opportunities left for making top 24 in the seasons best scores list.

Currently it looks like this for Russian ladies:

1 Alexandra TRUSOVA 241.02
2 Alena KOSTORNAIA 240.00
4 Anna SHCHERBAKOVA 227.76
5 Evgenia MEDVEDEVA 225.76
6 Kamila VALIEVA 221.95
7 Alina ZAGITOVA 217.99
10 Kseniia SINITSYNA 215.58
11 Elizaveta TUKTAMYSHEVA 214.38
18 Viktoria VASILIEVA 198.79
20 Daria USACHEVA 197.19
21 Anastasia TARAKANOVA 194.74

There are eleven ladies in top 24 SB score list right now, with Valieva and Usacheva being not age eligible for senior competitions next season. I guess Sinitsyna might prefer not moving up to seniors, too. It's certain that the other 8 ladies are going to get two spots each, barring injury or withdrawals. Samodurova and Konstantinova are in top 24 World Standings right now, we will see whether they stay the same after the end of the season.

While for the JGP spots Valieva, Usacheva, Khromykh, Frolova are looking as good options at the moment. Who else will be eligible?

I think Sinitsyna will move up. She has a super high score for a junior already, and she's been looking really good. Imo even if most of the current seniors stay, she will easily take the place of Sotskova/Sakhanovich who almost certainly won't get GPs again next year, as she is first in line. As for Vasilieva and Tarakanova, that depends on what happens to Samodurova and Konstantinova. However, I have a feeling that the former two will be left out and the latter two will keep their spots. Samodurova because she is so high on the WS list that she'll probably stay there (especially since she at least got a few points from winning a Challengerand getting 5th at a GP. Konstantinova is also on the WS list and could stay there, and RusFed will do everything to make sure she keeps GPs (if she's on the WS list she'll probably get her guaruanteed one and then be selected for Rostelecom or something). They would never prioritize someone like Vasilieva and Tarakanova over their favorite. The one thing I could see happening is all four of them getting one GP each (like Sotskova and Sakhanovich did this year), or for example Konstantinova getting two with Samodurova and Vasilieva each getting one, or maybe Tarakanova if she manages to go to Youth Olympics and somehow gets a higher score than Vasilieva, but that would require getting ~200 which will be difficult for her considering what the judges usually do.

As for JGP, I would add Kanysheva to that list, as it looks really unlikely she'll get to any international competitions this year. Unless she makes an epic comeback at JNats, which would be amazing. So there's still the slightest possibility that she'll shake up Senior GP selections, but again, thats extremely unlikely. Which is very unfortunate, considering she was on the SB list last year as a junior but wasn't eligible for a GP this year.

 

[DSQ]

It would help the audience and TV viewers to understand the TES when all deducted calls are played back on the big screen and on TV right after performance and together with a few simple line and arrow graphics explaining why this jump is !, e, <, << etc, and with the TES penalty shown.

There is too little transparancy now. Plus a TES appeal procedure, even if this slows the competition down. Equal calling and fair judging and transparent scoring will raise the image of figure skating as a competitive sport.

Agreed, it’d be like calls in Tennis with Hawk Eye. Even with this fans will still disagree but at least we’d see the reasoning.

 

[Skater Boy]

Historically you need about 1500 points at the end of the season i.e. after the oldest year's points have been removed, and the next to last converted to 70%. On this basis Sofia (about 2400 already) is guaranteed to get a spot via her World Standing, but Stanislava on 1350 and no more CS's to come - she's out of the Golden Spin - is not.

However there have been a number of skaters you would expect to be in the top 24 WS at the end of the season that have missed the GP season through injury e.g. Mai Mihara, Loena Hendrickx, Laurine Lecavalier etc., so on that basis she may still be OK. However will the Russian Federation want to repeat what happened with her and Maria this season even if she is ‘guaranteed’ a spot?

On a similar basis Viktoria Vasilieva is very close to getting a guaranteed spot. Once you get into Championship season a lot of skaters that might increase their SB and get in the top 24 no longer get the chance because they're from strong skating countries and their representatives are already well embedded in the top 24. Hence it's unlikely 7 skaters below Viktoria will overtake her, plus she already has the JGPF, plus possibly Junior Worlds to come.

At this stage I would say it's virtually certain 16 spots will go to Alexandra, Alena, Anna, Alina, Evgenia, Kseniia, Elizaveta T, 2 each, plus 1 to Sofia and Viktoria, with the remaining 2 to be decided, one of which would very likely go to Sofia or Viktoria - they're probably quite happy to go with 8 with 2, and 2 with 1 like this year, but probably not 7 with 2, and 4 with 1.

I thought Leonova scored over 190 but maybe that was a local event. I so wish to see her again but that doesn't seem in the cards. hard to believe Sotskova, Leonova are like so far down we will never see them again it seems. The defending euro champion would have to win Russian nats probably to even earn a remote shot at going to worlds.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

I forgot, are Gubanova and Tarakanova going to Russian senior nationals? Both have a loyal fan base and both are “held down” by the judges and the federation.

Also, is Kamila Valieva really injured or is that just a rumor?

 

[Jontor]

I forgot, are Gubanova and Tarakanova going to Russian senior nationals? Both have a loyal fan base and both are “held down” by the judges and the federation.

Also, is Kamila Valieva really injured or is that just a rumor?

Gubanova and Tarakanova will be at Russian Nationals.