2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 771 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

Forgiven for what? Federation needs to be forgiven by Anastasia for all the screw jobs they've given her over the years! But I'm sure the Federation sent Nastya a birthday card today. ;)

I certainly don't want to see her career go the way of Polinas and end at 17. But it's on that path unless puberty eases up and she can impress at Nationals. But the pressure on Anastasia at rusnats will be monumental because it's her only real event of the season. Yet others keep getting chance after chance.....

she left room for doping interpretation in her unfortunate interview. which in the current situation - probabel ban form the olympics - RussFed really dont needed. I fear we will not see her very often again. It is very sad. Yet another talent gone too soon
 
I just wrote this in another thread but I wanted to bring it here because it’s been bothering me the past few days.

I wish so called “fans” of Aliona would stop using her as a pawn to promote whatever their agenda is (against Sasha/Anna or Alina/Zhenya). Real fans can speak about her strengths and advantages without insulting other skaters. She seems to be used to drive a wedge between the Eteri skaters, and people speak of her as if she has succeeded in spite of her training environment instead of because of her training environment. As a fan of hers, it’s very sad to see this behavior against other skaters and is turning a lot of fans against Aliona herself, which she doesn’t deserve

You have my sword. And axe. And Legolas. :thumbsup:
 
I just wrote this in another thread but I wanted to bring it here because it’s been bothering me the past few days.

I wish so called “fans” of Aliona would stop using her as a pawn to promote whatever their agenda is (against Sasha/Anna or Alina/Zhenya). Real fans can speak about her strengths and advantages without insulting other skaters. She seems to be used to drive a wedge between the Eteri skaters, and people speak of her as if she has succeeded in spite of her training environment instead of because of her training environment. As a fan of hers, it’s very sad to see this behavior against other skaters and is turning a lot of fans against Aliona herself, which she doesn’t deserve

This times a thousand!!! Thanks for putting this into words, I couldn't agree more. She doesn't deserve to be associated with such negativity, and she is good enough to be praised without having to drag other skaters into it.
 
This times a thousand!!! Thanks for putting this into words, I couldn't agree more. She doesn't deserve to be associated with such negativity, and she is good enough to be praised without having to drag other skaters into it.

Thank you Happy Skates! Looking forward to cheering on all 4 girls in your profile pic this weekend!
 
Thank you Happy Skates! Looking forward to cheering on all 4 girls in your profile pic this weekend!

Me too! Just getting to see all of them in one competition is going to be four times the excitement of one Grand Prix event :). We're lucky witness this historical period in ladies skating imo.
 
she left room for doping interpretation in her unfortunate interview. which in the current situation - probabel ban form the olympics - RussFed really dont needed. I fear we will not see her very often again. It is very sad. Yet another talent gone too soon
Well Anastasias comment was very silly and immature and harmful. No one cared about it until about 15 months later. Only then did some media hack go back and watch a live stream for 5 hours to come up with the two second comment that has ended up doing a lot of damage to Nastyas life and career as well as creating headlines that are negative about the amazing Olympic champion which are very undeserved. And the question is not answered. why would someone do this? To hurt Alina? That has to be it and anyone who wants to hurt her is a sicko.

As for Nastya I just want to see her skate. I think her two new programs this season have some potential. She may be struggling with puberty and she may never have the technical wizardry of some of the other girls but she has an atistry and innate musicality and interpretation that is very rare and very much appreciated by some of us. The only way she can fight to save her career is to perform better and be stronger mentally. Nastia is 17 today so I certainly wish her a happy birthday and many happy years ahead on and off the ice. I can't imagine what it would be like to be turning 17 years old like Gubanova and wonder if your career is about over. Most of us have not done anything by17 or have any drive or initiative to do anything at that age. It takes years to figure that out. And this is another reason to appreciate these amazing incredible figure skaters and all they go through. Incredible Sport with incredible beauty and Grace but the athletes pay tremendous prices physically and mentally. I have nothing but respect and admiration for you.
 
But if the viewers don't understand the rules, then we have a problem...
If judges don't understand the rules - then we have a problem ;)
The rules exist for the athletes and viewers to know who won and to establish a ranking. It's a competition after all.
Did you read what I just posted before? Again, even most experienced viewers, who knows ISU rules to a letter- often don't have a clue what final score will be. And what is especially interesting - they can predict PCS score almost always perfectly. It's TP calls - what gives them trouble.
That's the thing - there is strong demand for transparent tech rules - which noone is gonna bother to fulfill. There is ambiguity in how URs are determined by different judges - one prefer to make call when pick touches the ice; another - when skater puts weight on the blade. One watches curve of landing trace, other watches angle of boot pick in relation to direction of a jump. There isn't any rule about it in any rulebook - if even judges doesn't know themselves how to make UR calls - what do you expect from viewers?
But's that's "easy stuff". Real deal begins when we talk about edges. Again, there isn't any rule at what exact moment one should watch edge incline in a lutz/flip, how long and until what moment skater should keep that incline, what degree of deepness/shallowness that incline shoud be to still qualify for the jump to be correct. Again, different judges have different preferences - but noone knows for sure. There isn't any rule about it in any rulebook - if even judges doesn't know themselves how to make edge calls - what do you expect from viewers?
What is the most outrageous though - is practice of some judges to make edge calls when they don't and can't see anything. Because very often many lutzes/flips are available only from the side view - and from that angle they can seem as flat when in fact they are not. But if caller really want to make a call - he will do it under pretense that he had seen it as such - and what you can say against it? There isn't even rule forbidding judges to make edge calls when they don't have frontal/rear view of a jump! )
Returning to what I said about neccessity of such rules in first place - I see edge rules in particular as redundant and detrimental. What gain figure skating viewer (casual or experienced - it doesn't matter) are getting from that rule? Nothing. One can say that you can enjoy "correct" technique more - but that's hypocrisy. Noone is able to make out edge incline in real time - unless it's very severe. And even if they can - jumping from one edge or another doesn't make any jump more beautiful or more ugly. In real time they are all the same. From perspective of making this sport enjoyable - the edge rule isn't needed.
Ok, you can say that it's needed for athletes to make various jumps to avoid getting too much advantage by "zayaking" one jump four times - and that if we don't have that rule - everyone will be jumping from flat edges and that's it. You know what? It's hypocrisy as well. Let's see what statistics we have for all time fs exists. Among those who are jumping lutzes/flips - majority are jumping them from flat/wrong edge. And no, noone was able to fix it ever - and most didn't even bother to do it. For example, among top ladies of current generation only Kihira and Honda didn't have any edge calls for all their career (junior and senior). All others were having various calls throughout all competitions. Edges are not URs - they can't occur randomly - it's constant condition. You either have them or not. What's that tells us? That edge rule is useless in making skaters to correct their jumps - and it's useless to prevent giving any kind of advantage by "zayaking" as well. Why the latter, you ask? Easy, due to build-in inconsistency of edge calls. To make some sense from that rule - it should be applied everytime to all lutzes/flips everywhere (but even then it's doesn't improve anything in fs - it just will make all protocols look more dirty). But it's impossible in practice - because very often judges can see these jumps only from the side - and majority of judges are still not that shameless to make calls from such angle. That, and the fact that only part of jumps are reviewed - usually those who have problematic landing - and edge incline doesn't have anything with landing quality. In other words existing of edge rule=built-in unavoidable inconsistency and unfair scores.
Considering the above - that brings us to single beneficiary of that rule - judges. Indeed, this rule is root of current system inconsistency and ambiguity. It's key rule to make possible for judges to have any scores manipulation they want. Almost everyone have problems with edges which is skaters constant trait? Excellent - then it's a matter of noticing or not when it's convenient for you. This skater is too clean and gonna get too much for your taste? Ok, let's see how he jumped lutzes then. That skater with flutz should be helped with not so good skate? Ok, let's pretend that he corrected his jumps for that particular competition. Etc.
The reason why viewers are never going to understand TES cutting after the skate or their final placement - whether they will learn the rules or not? See the above. In the end we should determine for whom this sport exists in the first place - for viewers, athletes or judges? And consider existing rules from that point of view. As a fan of fs I see that there are rules which bring more troubles to this sport - than benefits.
 
Well Anastasias comment was very silly and immature and harmful. No one cared about it until about 15 months later. Only then did some media hack go back and watch a live stream for 5 hours to come up with the two second comment that has ended up doing a lot of damage to Nastyas life and career as well as creating headlines that are negative about the amazing Olympic champion which are very undeserved. And the question is not answered. why would someone do this? To hurt Alina? That has to be it and anyone who wants to hurt her is a sicko. .

To create drama - I don't think whoever dredged up the comment cared that it was Alina Z mentioned, just that it was about a top Russian skater and insinuations about doping which is a touchy subject for Russia.

Of her own doing Anastasia isn't going to get any favors from the Russian Fed, she's going to have to earn twice over any international assignments she gets. Unfortunately at this point she's a lovely skater but she's not doing any ultra-difficult or stand-out elements, and why would the Fed give her a spot when they can give it to someone doing the same content who has kept their mouth shut or at least kept their comments off the internet and out of the press.
 
I just wrote this in another thread but I wanted to bring it here because it’s been bothering me the past few days.

I wish so called “fans” of Aliona would stop using her as a pawn to promote whatever their agenda is (against Sasha/Anna or Alina/Zhenya). Real fans can speak about her strengths and advantages without insulting other skaters. She seems to be used to drive a wedge between the Eteri skaters, and people speak of her as if she has succeeded in spite of her training environment instead of because of her training environment. As a fan of hers, it’s very sad to see this behavior against other skaters and is turning a lot of fans against Aliona herself, which she doesn’t deserve
Eh it’s nothing new? In the Olympic season there was much handwringing about Alina being the red headed stepchild in Eteri’s camp. We all know how that ended.
 
Eh it’s nothing new? In the Olympic season there was much handwringing about Alina being the red headed stepchild in Eteri’s camp. We all know how that ended.

But I’m talking about something completely different here. It’s people trashing Sasha and Anna without offering much actual constructive criticism about them. All of this while claiming to be a fan of Aliona’s. I’m not taking about legitimate comparisons or discussions on strengths and weaknesses. I’m talking about blanket statements about these 2 athletes. Any true fan of Aliona’s can talk about her many great qualities (and she has many) without needing to speak poorly of another skater. Again I want to reiterate that discussion and differing opinions are great and that’s the point of this board - I was not referring to these kinds of productive conversations. I am talking about people claiming to be a fan of Aliona’s while either bashing other skaters or speaking about her in a way that disregards/downplays how much her current coaching team has helped her become the athlete she is today. It’s a trend I’ve seen lately, maybe from newer fans who are just learning about Aliona this season? I’m not sure. She has a different style of skating and different strengths vs the stereotypical “Tutberidze skater” (which I don’t agree with as I see them all as very different and unique in their own ways and there is no stereotypical Tutberidze skater but this is a whole other argument) and people are somehow turning this into “she’s good despite training with Tutberidze” etc.

It’s difficult to describe but the way certain fans are speaking about her is turning her into a villain for fans of other skaters.
 
Sorry I did not follow every post. Which Anastasia are you guys talking about?
she left room for doping interpretation in her unfortunate interview. which in the current situation - probabel ban form the olympics - RussFed really dont needed. I fear we will not see her very often again. It is very sad. Yet another talent gone too soon
 
Sorry I did not follow every post. Which Anastasia are you guys talking about?

Anastasia Gubanova about Alina in 2018.

“I don’t understand how it happened. The season before last, I beat her for one or two, and then she somehow just fired over the summer. Although she was with the same coach - Eteri Tutberidze. Maybe Alina began to work more, or maybe chemistry, ”Gazeta.ru reports with reference to Gubanova’s Instagram.

The skater also added that she did not believe that Zagitova deserved the gold medal of the Pyeongchang Olympic Games.

“I believe that Medvedeva has earned gold. She already won. Alina had only the first season. She's still small, baby. I believe that she has not yet earned a gold medal. I have nothing against her, but my opinion is, ”said Gubanova.
 
To create drama - I don't think whoever dredged up the comment cared that it was Alina Z mentioned, just that it was about a top Russian skater and insinuations about doping which is a touchy subject for Russia.

Of her own doing Anastasia isn't going to get any favors from the Russian Fed, she's going to have to earn twice over any international assignments she gets. Unfortunately at this point she's a lovely skater but she's not doing any ultra-difficult or stand-out elements, and why would the Fed give her a spot when they can give it to someone doing the same content who has kept their mouth shut or at least kept their comments off the internet and out of the press.
Agree with every word. Well Nastya has some things to be blamed for it is very frustrating that no one even cared about her livestream comment until 15 months after she said it. don't you think someone would have pointed it out who was watching it at that time in March of 2018? it only became a messy story 15 or 16 months later because someone wanted it today to cause disruption and hurt for her as well as Alina.

Anastasia Gubanova about Alina in 2018.

“I don’t understand how it happened. The season before last, I beat her for one or two, and then she somehow just fired over the summer. Although she was with the same coach - Eteri Tutberidze. Maybe Alina began to work more, or maybe chemistry, ”Gazeta.ru reports with reference to Gubanova’s Instagram.

The skater also added that she did not believe that Zagitova deserved the gold medal of the Pyeongchang Olympic Games.

“I believe that Medvedeva has earned gold. She already won. Alina had only the first season. She's still small, baby. I believe that she has not yet earned a gold medal. I have nothing against her, but my opinion is, ”said Gubanova.
Nastya also said Alina did great and took advantage of her opportunities. Very true.

I hope the Russian Federation is getting younger smarter people involved with training their young stars and protegees on media training so mishaps like the ones from Gubanova and Shabotova can be avoided in the coming years. As great as 4Ais there always be somebody to try to stir the pot and stir up dissension between them and their coaching team.
 
But I’m talking about something completely different here. It’s people trashing Sasha and Anna without offering much actual constructive criticism about them. All of this while claiming to be a fan of Aliona’s. I’m not taking about legitimate comparisons or discussions on strengths and weaknesses. I’m talking about blanket statements about these 2 athletes. Any true fan of Aliona’s can talk about her many great qualities (and she has many) without needing to speak poorly of another skater. Again I want to reiterate that discussion and differing opinions are great and that’s the point of this board - I was not referring to these kinds of productive conversations. I am talking about people claiming to be a fan of Aliona’s while either bashing other skaters or speaking about her in a way that disregards/downplays how much her current coaching team has helped her become the athlete she is today. It’s a trend I’ve seen lately, maybe from newer fans who are just learning about Aliona this season? I’m not sure. She has a different style of skating and different strengths vs the stereotypical “Tutberidze skater” (which I don’t agree with as I see them all as very different and unique in their own ways and there is no stereotypical Tutberidze skater but this is a whole other argument) and people are somehow turning this into “she’s good despite training with Tutberidze” etc.

It’s difficult to describe but the way certain fans are speaking about her is turning her into a villain for fans of other skaters.

When I see the worst of it (on twitter), I see the words of a skater, or parent or coach of a skater who has been winnowed out by quads. (Or the extreme fan of an elite skater who has or will be winnowed out). The same amount of venom was directed at Alysa Liu. It is mostly jealousy based, and I see it for what it is. In my day, there was extreme venom toward those of us who could land...triples. (Yes! I'm Old!) It is sad that people cannot appreciate that each of the three girls could and might win any given day, just depending upon who lands what, when. That makes this sport exciting. You can get picky with points, etc., but each of the girls has won a 'major' (last year) and this year each has won two GP's. They are evenly matched.
 
When I see the worst of it (on twitter), I see the words of a skater, or parent or coach of a skater who has been winnowed out by quads. (Or the extreme fan of an elite skater who has or will be winnowed out). The same amount of venom was directed at Alysa Liu. It is mostly jealousy based, and I see it for what it is. In my day, there was extreme venom toward those of us who could land...triples. (Yes! I'm Old!) It is sad that people cannot appreciate that each of the three girls could and might win any given day, just depending upon who lands what, when. That makes this sport exciting. You can get picky with points, etc., but each of the girls has won a 'major' (last year) and this year each has won two GP's. They are evenly matched.

Many desperately believe the thoughts have some material influence.
Say, if you fully believe someone will make a mistake or become injured, your wish will be fulfilled in some way.
 
To create drama - I don't think whoever dredged up the comment cared that it was Alina Z mentioned, just that it was about a top Russian skater and insinuations about doping which is a touchy subject for Russia.

Of her own doing Anastasia isn't going to get any favors from the Russian Fed, she's going to have to earn twice over any international assignments she gets. Unfortunately at this point she's a lovely skater but she's not doing any ultra-difficult or stand-out elements, and why would the Fed give her a spot when they can give it to someone doing the same content who has kept their mouth shut or at least kept their comments off the internet and out of the press.

When I see the worst of it (on twitter), I see the words of a skater, or parent or coach of a skater who has been winnowed out by quads. (Or the extreme fan of an elite skater who has or will be winnowed out). The same amount of venom was directed at Alysa Liu. It is mostly jealousy based, and I see it for what it is. In my day, there was extreme venom toward those of us who could land...triples. (Yes! I'm Old!) It is sad that people cannot appreciate that each of the three girls could and might win any given day, just depending upon who lands what, when. That makes this sport exciting. You can get picky with points, etc., but each of the girls has won a 'major' (last year) and this year each has won two GP's. They are evenly matched.
I don't like any of this with the fan wars amongst 3A. These three amazing young ladies would not like it either. I wonder how long EG can't keep everyone happy.
 
But I’m talking about something completely different here. It’s people trashing Sasha and Anna without offering much actual constructive criticism about them. All of this while claiming to be a fan of Aliona’s. I’m not taking about legitimate comparisons or discussions on strengths and weaknesses. I’m talking about blanket statements about these 2 athletes. Any true fan of Aliona’s can talk about her many great qualities (and she has many) without needing to speak poorly of another skater. Again I want to reiterate that discussion and differing opinions are great and that’s the point of this board - I was not referring to these kinds of productive conversations. I am talking about people claiming to be a fan of Aliona’s while either bashing other skaters or speaking about her in a way that disregards/downplays how much her current coaching team has helped her become the athlete she is today. It’s a trend I’ve seen lately, maybe from newer fans who are just learning about Aliona this season? I’m not sure. She has a different style of skating and different strengths vs the stereotypical “Tutberidze skater” (which I don’t agree with as I see them all as very different and unique in their own ways and there is no stereotypical Tutberidze skater but this is a whole other argument) and people are somehow turning this into “she’s good despite training with Tutberidze” etc.

It’s difficult to describe but the way certain fans are speaking about her is turning her into a villain for fans of other skaters.

I see what you mean. I agree that there is no need for bashing skaters for whatever reason. Certainly I also hope fans know not to judge a skater by their fandom. I’ll admit that of the 3A Trusova is my favorite. I try to limit my posting to skaters I like only but occasionally my mean side gets the better of me.

I’ll join you in a prayer circle that these fan wars end!

As a tangent the Nastia Liukin/Shawn Johnson rivalry in US artistic gymnastics was pretty epic but it appears they’ve both figured out post retirement that friendship is more rewarding than rivalry. In rhythmic gymnastics Yana Kudraytseva was expected to win gold at the Olympics but got the silver behind Rita Mamun instead. Similarly they appear to still be great friends. The men figure skaters like Yuzuru, Shona, Nathan, Dima have all been greatly complimentary to their rivals. I hope fans can take their cues from these great athletes.
 
I see what you mean. I agree that there is no need for bashing skaters for whatever reason. Certainly I also hope fans know not to judge a skater by their fandom. I’ll admit that of the 3A Trusova is my favorite. I try to limit my posting to skaters I like only but occasionally my mean side gets the better of me.

I’ll join you in a prayer circle that these fan wars end!

As a tangent the Nastia Liukin/Shawn Johnson rivalry in US artistic gymnastics was pretty epic but it appears they’ve both figured out post retirement that friendship is more rewarding than rivalry. In rhythmic gymnastics Yana Kudraytseva was expected to win gold at the Olympics but got the silver behind Rita Mamun instead. Similarly they appear to still be great friends. The men figure skaters like Yuzuru, Shona, Nathan, Dima have all been greatly complimentary to their rivals. I hope fans can take their cues from these great athletes.

fun fact and off topic, but Shawn named Nastia as her new daughter's God mother :)
 
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