2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

[brightphoton]

It's probably more lucrative to work at Wal-Mart than to be a professional mid-tier figure skater.

 

[frida80]

It's probably more lucrative to work at Wal-Mart than to be a professional mid-tier figure skater.

Walmart is a nightmare to work for. These kids are at least having fun. Perhaps they may make more money going to college and finding a good job, but I don’t think many of these skaters have regrets.

 

[brightphoton]

Walmart is a nightmare to work for. These kids are at least having fun. Perhaps they may make more money going to college and finding a good job, but I don’t think many of these skaters have regrets.

I didn't say everyone who isn't getting medals should quit. Money isn't everything. But if you're concerned about making money, figure skating isn't a good career field. I don't even know if our top skaters are making bank, I remember that Mirai, Bradie, and Karen had to beg on GoFundMe to afford tickets and hotel to Pyeongchang.

I've never worked Walmart, but I did used to be a kitchen assistant, and I reckon the salary is about the same. I'd rate my overall experience 6.5/10, so not quite nightmare level ... I have heard that retail is another beast entirely though

 

[chanchan]

That is really good news to me. I thought I wouldn't see Ting until the next season. I hope she does go to Nationals, fully healed, or at least without aggravating her injury. She really is such a great skater

I heard that Ting is applying for college now.

 

[Greengemmonster]

I didn't say everyone who isn't getting medals should quit. Money isn't everything. But if you're concerned about making money, figure skating isn't a good career field. I don't even know if our top skaters are making bank, I remember that Mirai, Bradie, and Karen had to beg on GoFundMe to afford tickets and hotel to Pyeongchang.

I've never worked Walmart, but I did used to be a kitchen assistant, and I reckon the salary is about the same. I'd rate my overall experience 6.5/10, so not quite nightmare level ... I have heard that retail is another beast entirely though

OMG really? It's not funded so they can represent their country?

Now I am wishing skaters would start GofundMe campaigns. I would happily contribute to a bunch of them if it helps make life easier. B grade TV stars do it all the time to fund crappy vanity projects!

 

[ice coverage]

... I remember that Mirai, Bradie, and Karen had to beg on GoFundMe to afford tickets and hotel to Pyeongchang. ...

OMG really? It's not funded so they can represent their country? ...

Contrary to brightphoton's wording, the crowdfunding efforts were *not* to raise money for the travel expenses of the Olympians themselves.
The purpose of the crowdfunding was to raise money for loved ones to be able to travel to the Olympics.

I would add that it was Mirai's skating club (not Mirai herself) who initiated crowdfunding for travel expenses of her loved ones.

... Now I am wishing skaters would start GofundMe campaigns. I would happily contribute to a bunch of them if it helps make life easier. ...

Many skaters do have crowdfunding campaigns for ongoing training costs.

No doubt that they would welcome your contributions.

On GS, crowdfunding links can be found in fan threads (in OPs and/or other posts).
(Crowdfunding links are not allowed in The Edge.)

 

[Greengemmonster]

Contrary to brightphoton's wording, the crowdfunding efforts were *not* to raise money for the travel expenses of the Olympians themselves.
The purpose of the crowdfunding was to raise money for loved ones to be able to travel to the Olympics.

I would add that it was Mirai's skating club (not Mirai herself) who initiated crowdfunding for travel expenses of her loved ones.



Many skaters do have crowdfunding campaigns for ongoing training costs.

No doubt that they would welcome your contributions.

On GS, crowdfunding links can be found in fan threads (in OPs and/or other posts).
(Crowdfunding links are not allowed in The Edge.)

ooh Thanks heaps for that! I will go look! I am fairly new so bypassed a lot of the old posts and jumped to the recent pages!

I have been trying to support them by liking all their promotional posts of Instagram but this is a more direct way of doing it.

 

[concorde]

Mariah was in the middle for years before she started to make any traction. Bradie was in the middle for a while as well. US ladies peak tend to peak later. A little patience can go a long way.

Ok. I have to be snaky here.

I would not consider a skater that repeatedly makes it to Nationals a middle tier skater. Female single skaters making it to Nationals are certainly top tier skater (at least within the US).

True middle tier skaters tend to do well at local competitions and may make Sectionals. We rarely hear about them on this website. Middle tier skaters tend to skate through high school and once in college, may skate on breaks. They tend to get acknowledgements from USFS as graduating seniors and there is some limited scholarship money for those that do well academically. I expects that many local skating club officers and judges were middle tier skaters back in the day.

 

[macy]

Ok. I have to be snaky here.

I would not consider a skater that repeatedly makes it to Nationals a middle tier skater. Female single skaters making it to Nationals are certainly top tier skater (at least within the US).

True middle tier skaters tend to do well at local competitions and may make Sectionals. We rarely hear about them on this website. Middle tier skaters tend to skate through high school and once in college, may skate on breaks. They tend to get acknowledgements from USFS as graduating seniors and there is some limited scholarship money for those that do well academically. I expects that many local skating club officers and judges were middle tier skaters back in the day.

i see what you're trying to say, but there's also another "tier" system within national competitors as well which seems to follow the funding levels. it is a very big accomplishment to make nationals, and those skaters are seen as a "high" tier skater at the club level. but as far as the seniors who make nationals and funding goes, i'd say the tiers fall as establishing your top national finishers/olympians/international medal hopes who get top funding, then those who are sent to challengers and senior bs/maybe 4cc, and lower. i'm not sure what the requirements are to receive the lowest tier of funding, but i'd say the other 2 are close to that.

What Frida means by Mariah and Bradie being middle tier skaters is until the last couple years they weren't medaling at nationals, getting medals at GPs, going to worlds, etc. they fell into more of the B tier within the seniors who were national competitors.

 

[concorde]

i see what you're trying to say, but there's also another "tier" system within national competitors as well which seems to follow the funding levels. it is a very big accomplishment to make nationals, and those skaters are seen as a "high" tier skater at the club level. but as far as the seniors who make nationals and funding goes, i'd say the tiers fall as establishing your top national finishers/olympians/international medal hopes who get top funding, then those who are sent to challengers and senior bs/maybe 4cc, and lower. i'm not sure what the requirements are to receive the lowest tier of funding, but i'd say the other 2 are close to that.

What Frida means by Mariah and Bradie being middle tier skaters is until the last couple years they weren't medaling at nationals, getting medals at GPs, going to worlds, etc. they fell into more of the B tier within the seniors who were national competitors.

The original question asked about middle tier skaters.

You can interpret that question 2 ways -middle tier skaters that make it to Nationals vs. True middle tier skayers.

Frida answered one interpretation of the question and I answered a second interpretation.

 

[frida80]

Ok. I have to be snaky here.

I would not consider a skater that repeatedly makes it to Nationals a middle tier skater. Female single skaters making it to Nationals are certainly top tier skater (at least within the US).

True middle tier skaters tend to do well at local competitions and may make Sectionals. We rarely hear about them on this website. Middle tier skaters tend to skate through high school and once in college, may skate on breaks. They tend to get acknowledgements from USFS as graduating seniors and there is some limited scholarship money for those that do well academically. I expects that many local skating club officers and judges were middle tier skaters back in the day.

The skater your describing I consider a person that is skating strictly for personal pleasure. I doubt they get any funding or ever get the Team USA jacket. However, if they are passionate about what they do, good for them. I guess all adult figure skaters are in that category to. Learning about a woman that learned a 2A in her 40s, will forever be inspirational.

We all have are own type of ranking. I mentally use USFS tier system to rank skaters. But since that’s pretty detailed, the way I think of skaters is like this.


Level 1: The world team

These are the three or four skaters that likely on the podium at nationals and make it to worlds, or be first alternate. Skaters like Mariah or Bradie.

Level 2: On the GP

These skaters earned on the GP. These skaters have earned scores high enough that they are selected for the GP. It doesn’t neccesserily mean they’ll get close to the podium, but in the past 12 months they skated well enough to get earn a spot.

Level 4: Developmental (JGP and CS only)

They just earned scores that are good enough for interntional spots. Kids that do well at summer comps and nationals get placed on the ISP for the first time. Those that didn’t do well enough to earn a GP spot well get CS spots as a way to earn an ISU Personal Best. USFS has gotten a little stingy about CS spots, though.

Level 5: National bound

Skaters that get to nationals but consistently place near the bottom. Just getting to nationals is a major accomplishment for them. They’re happy. USFS is trying to lower the number of this group by using minimum scores.

Level 6: Everyone else

Any skater that never places in the top four at sectionals. However, skating is their blood. They love it! They treasure the small accomplishments, compete at local competitions, and enjoy the comraderie and friendship they built on ice. One day they all share their passion becoming coaches and choreographers. These are the backbone of the sport, the ones that teach the next generation the basic skills, jumps, spins, and how to compete.

 

[brightphoton]

Contrary to brightphoton's wording, the crowdfunding efforts were *not* to raise money for the travel expenses of the Olympians themselves.
The purpose of the crowdfunding was to raise money for loved ones to be able to travel to the Olympics.

I would add that it was Mirai's skating club (not Mirai herself) who initiated crowdfunding for travel expenses of her loved ones.



Many skaters do have crowdfunding campaigns for ongoing training costs.

No doubt that they would welcome your contributions.

On GS, crowdfunding links can be found in fan threads (in OPs and/or other posts).
(Crowdfunding links are not allowed in The Edge.)

If we're going to mention Mirai's needing external funding to get her then boyfriend now fiance/husband to the Olympics, Bradie's family friend also started a campaign to get her 3 brothers to the Olympics as well. Karen ran her own GoFundMe campaign to pay for brother's way. Mirai's case was unfortunately a bit "special" because the Daily Mail picked up on the story and wrote their usual unflattering article about her.

It says something when the skaters that we sent to the Olympics didn't have a spare $10,000 per family member lying around. I know that my local NBA team members don't have the same trouble

 

[brightphoton]

OMG really? It's not funded so they can represent their country?

Now I am wishing skaters would start GofundMe campaigns. I would happily contribute to a bunch of them if it helps make life easier. B grade TV stars do it all the time to fund crappy vanity projects!

Oh no, sorry, sometimes I forget there are new fans the US Figure Skating Association pays for the skaters themselves to go to the Olympics, but if Mom/Dad/siblings want to come along, they have to pay their own way.

Actually Mirai, who went to the Olympics twice, almost didn't have her parents go to her first Olympics in Vancouver either, their family couldn't afford it. At the last minute, Sony? had her do a small commercial and Mom and Dad were able to accompany her to her first Olympics. Figure skating is rough financially. Costs a lot to train and very few opportunities to make the money back.

A common joke goes:
Is (skater's family) rich?
No, they're not rich. But if their daughter stopped skating, then they'd be rich.

 

[moonvine]

OMG really? It's not funded so they can represent their country?

Now I am wishing skaters would start GofundMe campaigns. I would happily contribute to a bunch of them if it helps make life easier. B grade TV stars do it all the time to fund crappy vanity projects!

No, they aren’t funded and almost all of them have GoFundMes. Nathan Chen I don’t think has one. If you head on over to the “fan fest” area the GoFundMes are usually posted on the first post. Let me know if you have a problem finding them. Some also sell products to help with training expenses. Almost all of them coach or choreograph or do something on the side.

 

[ice coverage]

If we're going to mention Mirai's needing external funding to get her then boyfriend ... to the Olympics, Bradie's family friend also started a campaign to get her 3 brothers to the Olympics as well. Karen ran her own GoFundMe campaign to pay for brother's way. ...

It says something when the skaters that we sent to the Olympics didn't have a spare $10,000 per family member lying around. I know that my local NBA team members don't have the same trouble

Seems that you have had some misunderstandings about the point of my earlier post.

Greengemmonster reacted to your earlier post with concern as to whether the U.S. federation did not cover travel expenses for the skaters themselves: Mirai, Karen, and Bradie.
I wanted to let Greengemmonster know that the purpose of the crowdfunding in fact was to raise money for the travel expenses of their loved ones.
(And I see that you subsequently also have addressed Greengemmonster's concern.)

I was well aware of -- and was by no means trying to ignore -- the separate crowdfunding for the families of Karen and of Bradie.
I added a detail about Mirai's skating club because I happened to remember that they started the crowdfunding in her case.

I had not happened to remember who started the crowdfunding for Bradie's family. Thank you for adding that detail.

I also was/am well aware that the financial rewards for U.S. skaters are absolutely minimal in comparison to professional athletes in other sports (such as NBA players).
I never for one second suggested that U.S. skaters are on easy street.

 

[brightphoton]

To be completely honest, I think people should go into skating with the expectation that they're going to lose money, so they'll have to make up the difference by getting a job, setting up a GoFundMe, or just having at least one parent who has a high paying job. Sponsorships are few, skating shows usually occur on the off-season, and even if you do win medals, the prize money isn't that much.

We once had a skater named Agnes Zawadzki, who imo would be considered a "mid tier" skater. Good jumper. She was in the running to go to the Olympics but didn't make it. Her mother went into bankruptcy from skating expenses. I always felt really bad for her, because it seemed like she had a desire or expectation to make figure skating financially viable, in addition to the usually Olympic dreams.

“I want to do well and make money to help out my family, but at times that makes this feel kind of like a job,” she said in her gentle voice.

“Sometimes I feel like I’m never doing enough because I want to pay my mother back so much,” she said. “I want to buy her nice things, I want to make things easier for her. I feel like I let my family down.”

Agnes will be 23 when the Winter Olympics roll around again. Facing another four years of saving and spending money, she said she’d take some time off to rethink her future in the sport. For now, she just wants to be left alone.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/13/...gle-to-reach-olympics-is-the-familys-too.html

 

[macy]

To be completely honest, I think people should go into skating with the expectation that they're going to lose money, so they'll have to make up the difference by getting a job, setting up a GoFundMe, or just having at least one parent who has a high paying job. Sponsorships are few, skating shows usually occur on the off-season, and even if you do win medals, the prize money isn't that much.

We once had a skater named Agnes Zawadzki, who imo would be considered a "mid tier" skater. Good jumper. She was in the running to go to the Olympics but didn't make it. Her mother went into bankruptcy from skating expenses. I always felt really bad for her, because it seemed like she had a desire or expectation to make figure skating financially viable, in addition to the usually Olympic dreams.

“I want to do well and make money to help out my family, but at times that makes this feel kind of like a job,” she said in her gentle voice.

“Sometimes I feel like I’m never doing enough because I want to pay my mother back so much,” she said. “I want to buy her nice things, I want to make things easier for her. I feel like I let my family down.”

Agnes will be 23 when the Winter Olympics roll around again. Facing another four years of saving and spending money, she said she’d take some time off to rethink her future in the sport. For now, she just wants to be left alone.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/13/...gle-to-reach-olympics-is-the-familys-too.html

i believe Agnes was skating on a cruise ship for a while after 2014, not sure if she still is. hopefully she was able to give some of her earnings back to her mom that way, even though it wasn't the olympics

 

[brightphoton]

i believe Agnes was skating on a cruise ship for a while after 2014, not sure if she still is. hopefully she was able to give some of her earnings back to her mom that way, even though it wasn't the olympics

I'm glad to hear that, cruise ships pay pretty well, I've heard. Michelle Kwan has done work on cruise ships too. Mom Zawakski really deserves a retirement of luxury.

 

[katymay]

To be completely honest, I think people should go into skating with the expectation that they're going to lose money, so they'll have to make up the difference by getting a job, setting up a GoFundMe, or just having at least one parent who has a high paying job. Sponsorships are few, skating shows usually occur on the off-season, and even if you do win medals, the prize money isn't that much.

We once had a skater named Agnes Zawadzki, who imo would be considered a "mid tier" skater. Good jumper. She was in the running to go to the Olympics but didn't make it. Her mother went into bankruptcy from skating expenses. I always felt really bad for her, because it seemed like she had a desire or expectation to make figure skating financially viable, in addition to the usually Olympic dreams.

“I want to do well and make money to help out my family, but at times that makes this feel kind of like a job,” she said in her gentle voice.

“Sometimes I feel like I’m never doing enough because I want to pay my mother back so much,” she said. “I want to buy her nice things, I want to make things easier for her. I feel like I let my family down.”

Agnes will be 23 when the Winter Olympics roll around again. Facing another four years of saving and spending money, she said she’d take some time off to rethink her future in the sport. For now, she just wants to be left alone.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/13/...gle-to-reach-olympics-is-the-familys-too.html

Agnes was very talented. She had huge beautiful jumps. When you have a child with that much talent, it stands to reason that you will do almost anything to allow them to continue to chase their dream. She absolutely was an 'almost' Olympian, one of the best jumpers ever. And while the USFSA doesn't have much to spare for the "Agnes's" of the skating community, they did find $50,000 to send Gracie Gold to the most exclusive eating disorder clinic in the United States.

 

[MarinHondas]

Agnes was very talented. She had huge beautiful jumps. When you have a child with that much talent, it stands to reason that you will do almost anything to allow them to continue to chase their dream. She absolutely was an 'almost' Olympian, one of the best jumpers ever. And while the USFSA doesn't have much to spare for the "Agnes's" of the skating community, they did find $50,000 to send Gracie Gold to the most exclusive eating disorder clinic in the United States.

How do you know that?