2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[moriel]

Look, i think the team made the best to ensure they'd have won gold and silver: Alina with the most difficult programs, Evgenia with her reputation and a more stable layout. I'm not blaming Eteri, strategically they did their best.

But the whole "Eteri was upset because Evgenia didn't win" is BS, otherwise she'd have really tried everything risking more of course, with new combos, or moving the lutz in the second half,... even if she was injured.

Eteri looked upset cause:

1) You can't just be happy for one of your athletes when the other is sad because she didn't win.

2) All russians were on the Evgenia train because she has been the face of ladies figure skating for the previous 2-3 years, even Tarasova was on board with her (when Radionova stopped being competitive), and because she was the one who stood up for the country after the doping scandal and WADA/IOC decisions.

I mean Tarasova kept saying last year the whole time that with 3s-3lo Zhenya would have won the Olympics, we know that would have not been enough if you do the math, but that's the perception i was talking about. People see more difficult or unsual combos and they give you even more credit and that sometimes applies to the judges too.

Alina did the 3ltz-3lo, that was the most difficult combination in the ladies event, that's something even the person who knows nothing to figure skating can understand.

Except she tried, as you so conveniently forget, and it didn't work.

And then, there is also that nice little choice between ensuring your pupil wins a medal of any color, and adding difficulty which this student clearly is not up to even if healthy, and leading to this student not winning anything at all.

 

[Edwin]

Gorshkov, FFKKR President, responded:

"The scandal surrounding the suspension of the career of figure skater Alina Zagitova was created artificially, the Russian Figure Skating Federation will not take part in it"
-----
From: https://echo.msk.ru/news/2555899-echo.html

Between Eteri and Diana no problems:

https://www.sportsdaily.ru/articles...-vozmozhnost-udelyat-stolko-vnimaniya-docheri

 

[KOBOT37]

"Risked more"... uh sure.

Eteri 'risked' with Trusova's Quads at GPF and got hate even before she failed to win gold medal.

Now imagine if she 'risked more' and Medvedeva ended up third (oh it would have never happened,right? neither would Alina finishing last at GPF or failing to Win Euros last year, but both of these things did happen) or even worse, without medals, or the worst one, if while training for 'risking more' got injured bad enough that she couldn't compete.

It was olympic medals and lifetime work on the line not some bet on who would do dishes that night.

 

[Tolstoj]

Except she tried, as you so conveniently forget, and it didn't work.

And then, there is also that nice little choice between ensuring your pupil wins a medal of any color, and adding difficulty which this student clearly is not up to even if healthy, and leading to this student not winning anything at all.

She tried at a senior B event she'd have won anyway, with a program they changed few days later. That's not trying imo.

Trying for me was sticking to it the entire GP season and see where that goes.

"Risked more"... uh sure.

Eteri 'risked' with Trusova's Quads at GPF and got hate even before she failed to win gold medal.

Now imagine if she 'risked more' and Medvedeva ended up third (oh it would have never happened,right? neither would Alina finishing last at GPF or failing to Win Euros last year, but both of these things did happen) or even worse, without medals, or the worst one, if while training for 'risking more' got injured bad enough that she couldn't compete.

It was olympic medals and lifetime work on the line not some bet on who would do dishes that night.

That's the price you pay for risking.

But you all keep seeing the other side -> what if it didn't work? that's probably what the team thought and decided to not risk.

well what if it did? Evgenia shows her willingness to win the title by moving jumps in the second half or showing a new element, and in the night she lands everything, then judges have to reward that and have more reason to give you a PB. Keep in mind that Evgenia's score at the Olympics was NOT her career best.

Her PB was 160.46 (WTT 2017), that would have been enough to win the Olympics.

I think judges made it very clear.

Also i don't understand why people should be mad with how it went with Trusova, you put way too much weight in competitions that:

A) aren't as important as Worlds and Olympics. Trusova is attempting jumps now that will be stable later in the season or in the future. What if she never tries the 3A? At the Olympics you see the same scoring as GPF where the skaters who have a clean 3A gets an insane boost in the SP and that's how you lose the title.

B) the judging at the event was in general more about rewarding the quality, the narrative was set: they really wanted to give the title to Kostornaya after the SP.

 

[nussnacker]

well what if it did? Evgenia shows her willingness to win the title by moving jumps in the second half or showing a new element, and judges have to reward that. Keep in mind that Evgenia's score at the Olympics was NOT her career best.

Her career best was 160.46 (WTT 2017), that would have been enough to win the Olympics.

I think judges made it very clear.

I think now you're debating for the sake of debating, although you clearly know what it's about yourself.
Isn't it a common knowledge that everyone gets SB and WR at WTT, everyone's overscored there.
That's a weak argument. And her career best at WTT was achieved using her old layout too.

 

[KOBOT37]

She tried at a senior B event she'd have won anyway, with a program they changed few days later. That's not trying imo.

Trying for me was sticking to it the entire GP season and see where that goes.



That's the price you pay for risking.

But you all keep seeing the other side -> what if it didn't work? that's probably what the team thought and decided to not risk.

well what if it did? Evgenia shows her willingness to win the title by moving jumps in the second half or showing a new element, and judges have to reward that. Keep in mind that Evgenia's score at the Olympics was NOT her career best.

Her career best was 160.46 (WTT 2017), that would have been enough to win the Olympics.

I think judges made it very clear.

Also i don't understand why people should be mad with how it went with Trusova, you put way too much weight in competitions that:

A) aren't as important as Worlds and Olympics. Trusova is attempting jumps now that will be stable later in the season or in the future. What if she never tries the 3A? At the Olympics you see the same scoring as GPF where the skaters who have a clean 3A gets an insane boost in the SP and that's how you lose the title.

B) the judging at the event was in general more about rewarding the quality. They really wanted to give the title to Kostornaya.

OK, if you think so, you can sell your house, withdraw your savings from the bank an go to Casino.

what if it works and you win?

 

[Tolstoj]

I think now you're debating for the sake of debating, although you clearly know what it's about yourself.
Isn't it a common knowledge that everyone gets SB and WR at WTT, everyone's overscored there.
That's a weak argument. And her career best at WTT was achieved using her old layout too.

Same with Olympics, that's where judges can skyrocket your scores (look at Yuna Kim in 2010, or even Osmond in the FS) if they want, because what better occasion to give you a PB if you deliver in the night with all the pressure at the most important competition of this sport.

OK, if you think so, you can sell your house, withdraw your savings from the bank an go to Casino.

what if it works and you win?

It's a bit different because Evgenia DID try these elements, she did try more difficult combos and the almost fully backloaded program but decided not to risk because of the injury, so that is skating conservatively.

 

[Finley]

I'd like to clarify what I said about Mishin. I was probably unduly harsh. When he originally made his statement, I thought it was sexist but I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he meant it well. Taking into account the generational and cultural differences. And given that he himself train a 17 year old skater who is struggling this season.

The suggestion that he said something disrespectful, with the calculated intention, to take a shot at Eteri, without any care for the impact on another 17 year old skater, is what prompted my response. Which was too harsh. IF that was the purpose then it is his intent behind the words that is objectionable. The words themselves are just stupid.

And Mishin is just Mishin. At this particular moment not many of the Russian FS elite are covering themselves in glory.

 

[Finley]

Same with Olympics, that's where judges can skyrocket your scores (look at Yuna Kim in 2010, or even Osmond in the FS) if they want, because what better occasion to give you a PB if you deliver in the night with all the pressure.



It's a bit different because Evgenia DID try these elements, she did try more difficult combos and the almost fully backloaded program but decided not to risk because of the injury, so that is skating conservatively.

If one thing is different then everything is different. A Different outcome does not necessarily mean a better outcome.

 

[Edwin]

It's a sell out !!

According to FFKKR, already 21400 (~ 87%) of all tickets to the National Championships have been sold: https://rsport.ria.ru/20191217/1562488027.html

"As of Monday, 21,400 tickets have been sold. This is about 87% of the total number of tickets on sale. Another thousand tickets are issued as invitations," the FFKKR press service said.

But apparently no live nationwide TV coverage of the all important women's free skate? Only online transmissions, confirmed with Russian and English commentary.

Inna Goncharenko's preview:

“I think so,” Goncharenko answered over the phone to the question of whether the pedestal of the national championship in women's single skating is known in advance. “(Alyona) Kostornaya, (Aleksandra) Trusova, (Anna) Shcherbakova - which of them will be in which place depends on from the quality of their skating, apparently, they will divide their places on the podium. However, this seems to be the case at this very moment, because you can’t discount Lisa (Tuktamysheva), who has a triple Axel and, possibly, a quad Toeloop. I will support her."

“It will be interesting to see how Zhenya will be ready for the tournament, how she brought herself to this start,”
“The previous starts, according to them, were not so important, so I wonder what will happen at the Russian championship. I wish her good luck. "

(https://rsport.ria.ru/20191216/1562460507.html)

 

[ruga]

According to FFKKR, already 21000 (> 87%) of all tickets to the National Championships have been pre-sold: https://rsport.ria.ru/20191217/1562488027.html

Plot twist: the whole drama was here just to increase ticket sales.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Littlest quadster Veronika Zhilina just jumped 4T cleanly in her "New Year 2020" competition.

Protocols: https://www.sportvokrug.ru/r/competition/6630/Протокол.pdf

Why were her final two jumps invalid?

 

[katymay]

"Risked more"... uh sure.

Eteri 'risked' with Trusova's Quads at GPF and got hate even before she failed to win gold medal.

Now imagine if she 'risked more' and Medvedeva ended up third (oh it would have never happened,right? neither would Alina finishing last at GPF or failing to Win Euros last year, but both of these things did happen) or even worse, without medals, or the worst one, if while training for 'risking more' got injured bad enough that she couldn't compete.

It was olympic medals and lifetime work on the line not some bet on who would do dishes that night.

I don’t think Eteri had anything to do with Trusova’s program and the excess of quads. That is on Trusova- I think she does as she wishes, damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. I’ve heard from multiple sources Trusova is very stubborn.

 

[DSQ]

Gorshkov, FFKKR President, responded:

"The scandal surrounding the suspension of the career of figure skater Alina Zagitova was created artificially, the Russian Figure Skating Federation will not take part in it"
-----
From: https://echo.msk.ru/news/2555899-echo.html

Between Eteri and Diana no problems:

https://www.sportsdaily.ru/articles...-vozmozhnost-udelyat-stolko-vnimaniya-docheri

The FFKKR are smart.

 

[Edwin]

Why were her final two jumps invalid?

Here is Veronika Zhilina's free skating run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGGrzggPbvM

Perhaps she was confused over the particular rules she should skate under? Or got carried away a little?

 

[desp]

Why were her final two jumps invalid?

These two jumps were excessive for this competion by the rules.

 

[Draculus]

Genarally this has nothing to do particularly with Zhenya-Eteri relationship, in my country we are also not that overprotective that we would think that non adults or young adults have totally zero responsibility, duties or dignity. You can work since 15 but you are not able to talk with your coach about leaving? That would totally go behind the athlete, not the coach, that's just ridiculous.

So, if it ridiculous, what causes such behavior from your point of view? For ridiculous behavior should be some reasons. Just think about it, why in all other cases intelligent and classy Zhenia did not talk with Eteri in person?

 

[Draculus]

No I don't.

You disagree with both, with 1st or with 2nd?

 

[skatingfan200]

Eteri's behaviour after Medvedeva's departure was less than perfect but... All Medvedeva's mother (okay, Evgenia herself was 18 years old,but her mother was old enough to pull that off) had to do to avoid all that drama was meeting Eteri once after they decided to leave and telling her something like "Thanks for everything you did for my daughter, we will forever be grateful for that but we think it is better for us to continue career with different coach,wish you all the best" and we would have avoided all that drama.

Eteri did more (much more) than enough for Medvedeva to deserve being told that in Person and definitely didn't deserve to get ignored by her family and most definitely doesn't deserve all that comments from Medvedeva which sound like her moving to Canada was like Andy Dufresne escaping from Shawshank Prison.

Sure, Eteri should have stayed classy and shouldn't have gone to media with all that behind the scenes information, but she was angry and it's understandable.

P.S I get why Medvedeva and her family think Eteri played games and 'did everything to make sure Alina won' and I don't blame them, summit fever unfortunately isn't limited to Alpinism, but if anybody who doesn't have emotional interests in the game, thinks that Eteri and her team didn't do everything they could to prepare Medvedeva for Olympics, than there is not much left to discuss.

Less than perfect? Not a lawyer but in Germany we call it "Rufmord". She might have been angry but it was a calculated move to leaking the text messages since she knew everything much longer that Zhenya will leave her, not like she claimed two days before from the media. Zhenya or her mother not meeting in person does not justify her behaviour.


Emotional or not, it´s logical that she did not everything for Zhenya´s Gold. Zhenya was able for 1+6 with 3F3T in the bonus zone but she stayed by 2+5 even after European. "Everything to make that she won" shows that Zhenya wanted to change her layout. It´s one of the reason why she left, lost of trust in the coach decision. The other big mistake was to let her skate at the Grand Prix injured, apparently also Eteri´s decision.

 

[Good Vibes Only]

Zhenya changing coaches happened TWO seasons ago and has been discussed to death already. The only thing that matters now is that Zhenya is happy. No one can change the past so the best thing to do is to move on and live in the moment. We also don’t know all the details behind the situation so let’s not make assumptions. There are plenty of other things to talk about.