Too much success too young eg Trusova my thoughts

[Momtoiceprincess]

From what I've seen in Gymnastics & skating the kids who start winning extremely young have a hard time adapting when other team mates catch up & surpass.
They get used to winning easily & when they don't it hits them much harder psychology.
Trusova had it very easy in juniors, even now the 3A compete against each other.
I think when kids are younger it would be better not to win all the time & work hard to be hungry to win.
In gymnastics theres numerous examples of bright stars who were amazing juniors but never accomplished what they could have or what the media said eg Dominique Moceanu was to be the next Nadia & 96 OC she made the team but no individual medal, Ragan Smith another amazing junior who never won an individual world or Olympic medal.
I think there's alot to be said for slow & steady wins the race & just because a kid wins everything from the age of 7 upwards it's not a reflection of how their senior career is going to pan out
Anyone else any other thoughts? All kids develop & peak at different times.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Did she? Her first junior season, yes, she won everything internationally but JGPF and Jr. Nats were close to Alena. Anna was injured and didn't compete most of the year, but beat her at the Cup Final. The next year, Anna beat her at Senior Nationals and Alena at JGPF. And before juniors, the competition was fierce among all of the young Russian ladies' skaters and nobody was "dominating."

 

[Momtoiceprincess]

Sorry I should have added trusova entered seniors with a huge advantage with her jumps & psychologically it must have given her a big boost. However her advantage is now gone against her & her team mates are beating her. Anna & Aliona didn't have as much hype & pressure on them entering seniors & were nearly seen as underdogs at the start of the season.

 

[silverfoxes]

I think you are making a lot of unfounded assumptions based on two not-so-great competitions (where she still won bronze...hardly a massive failure). She's attempting the hardest tech content that any female skater ever has. And it's her first season as a senior. The more complicated and risky the program, the more chances to make mistakes. Perhaps she is growing as well and needs time to adjust. I do not think she has lost her desire to win...at all.

 

[Momtoiceprincess]

It's not just trusova I'm saying I'm general when young it's probably be best to go into major competions as the underdog so to speak & perform freely without the weight of the nation on your shoulders.
I fear for Alyssa Liu when she moves to seniors

 

[kallirroe]

I agree with Silverfoxes. Sasha lost at two major competitions and people began to speculate all these things. Indeed you statement has a point and indeed, i too think that it is hard for Sasha because everyone was expecting her senior debut, even more than Anna and Alena together ! It is not that she won everything in her junior career. People overhyped her, she began the season with 4 quadruples in Japan Open and she was on fire at the GP stages but the risk she is taking has not yet paid back for her. I think that Trusova has all the goods to land a programm with 4 or 5 quads , master the 3A and beat her teamates. They still have 2 years before the Olympics. After all, quads are not triples ! Being consistent in quads when most ladies struggle to be consistent with triples, is far more amazing that we pay attribute to. It takes time , psychology, top shape ( none of them was in top shape at Europeans ) and have a good day in order to wiin, either you have quads or not. Really really hope that Sasha has the opportunity to show us what she is trully capable of in the Worlds because, she too, must be disappointed that things dont turn in competitions as in practices.

 

[Edwin]

Really really hope that Sasha has the opportunity to show us what she is trully capable of in the Worlds because, she too, must be disappointed that things don't turn in competitions as in practices.

This is what needs to be worked on. But how? She cannot bet on a certain starting order, she has to settle for the draw in SP and the results of other's SP for the distribution in FP. Training all kinds of scenarios involving 0 to 20 minutes of waiting between initial warm ups and actual skating run is not doable.

Given the intensity and energy of her physical efforts required, a first out on the ice in the final flight is probably best for her.

 

[ribbit]

This is what needs to be worked on. But how? She cannot bet on a certain starting order, she has to settle for the draw in SP and the results of other's SP for the distribution in FP. Training all kinds of scenarios involving 0 to 20 minutes of waiting between initial warm ups and actual skating run is not doable.

I would have thought that Sasha (and Anna and Alena) were ideally positioned to train these scenarios: they could run mock competitions in practice, warming up and then taking it in turns to do program run-throughs with music. Eteri certainly has enough excellent skaters to simulate a full competition flight.

I think gymnasts may do a version of this, and I'm quite sure that I've read gymnasts describing competition simulations in practice: being made to wait a couple of minutes before beginning a routine (to mimic the delays that can happen as a previous competitor's routine is scored), or running a routine while training mates are asked to cheer at random moments (to mimic the experience of running your routine at the same time that other competitors are competing on other apparatus). Skaters don't face this last challenge, but they might profitably borrow the others from gymnastics.

 

[Mathman]

If being too good, too soon is a problem, I really don't see any solution. If you have a young protégé you can't deliberately hold her back, lecturing her that "you'll thank me some day."

 

[hanyuufan5]

I think when kids are younger it would be better not to win all the time & work hard to be hungry to win.

So, what, hold them back because they win too much? Sorry, little Johnny, you have too much drive and determination. You must be more average until you are X years old. How 'bout I read you a nice story and you skate later? DDD

Sasha was never unbeatable; that was fan and media hype. She never "had it easy." Jumping quads is not easy!

Yes, winning all the time and then not can hurt, but whether in skating or anything, you have to get over it and move on.

I think there's alot to be said for slow & steady wins the race

You and a lot of others. The kids who would rather win the race by sandbagging anyone and everyone disagree.

 

[lariko]

Every athlete does the same thing. They enter competitions they qualify for and are eligible for, and compete to their best ability, hoping to achieve the best possible result. Every. Single. One. Of. Them.

 

[Arbitrary]

Too much success... Where is it?
Trusova participated in two international Majors only so far. 2nd & 3rd place. Not a big success neither a big fail.
I'd say it's more success than fail but too early to talk.

 

[SkateSkates]

People got so used to having 1 skater dominate a season, which didn’t use to be the case in the 2007-13 era where Mao, Yuna, Caro, Joannie and Miki were all dominant over different competitions and traded places on the podium. If Aliona, Anna and Sasha debuted in 2014 instead, we wouldn’t be viewing Sasha’s season thus far as a “failure”. It’s just that the dominant seasons of Elizaveta followed by Evgenia and then Alina and even Rika last year (until worlds) has warped our view.

 

[Scout]

You have to live in the moment, because the future is uncertain and nothing is guaranteed.

Do you learn the quads at age 13 (or younger) and create history and win junior world titles or do you prevent the kids from challenging themselves and learning new skills and prevent them from competing if they don't have competition, so that MAYBE, when they're 18, IF they survive purberty, IF they don't get injured, IF there is no new young talent that comes up the ranks to over take you, IF they don't lose interest in the sport by being held back, IF they have the money to cover years of expenses without funding, then they can maybe win a world medal and have longevity in the sport?

No one can take away Trusova's junior world titles, her Russian Nats bronze, her GPF bronze, her Europeans bronze. And while not Olympic Gold, those are amazing accomplishments in their own right. She's also completely carved out her spot in history as the Quad Queen, as the skater who brought an amazingly crazy technical arsenal to women's skating.

Why give up all of the above and risk it for maybe a world title at an older age? At the rate Russian produces young, talented ladies that overtake each other, waiting is a very risky game. Take what you can get when you can.

And while you're stressing about Trusova and taking about Moceanu and Smith falling short, think about all the UNKNOWN young Russian talent or American gymnasts who are NEVER going to get the chance to compete internationally, because as amazing as they are, they're not amazing enough...

 

[Edwin]

Carpe Diem

Put your medals on a pin and continue training and improving yourself for the next event

The motto of Khrustalniy is РаботаемДальше and ТолькоВперёд not for nothing: Keep Working and Only Forwards #TeamTutberidzeForProgress

 

[brakes]

By the way - in novice tournaments Tarakanova usually topped all 3As.

 

[Edwin]

By the way - in novice tournaments Tarakanova usually topped all 3As.

And look where Tarakanova is now? If she'd stayed, she would've been part of a quintet of Aces, given her skill level and physical prowess.

But it is no use crying over water flown under the bridge. Anastasiya's leitmotiv also should be 'keep working, only forwards'

And indeed, learning a solid and reliable triksel is Trusova's best way forwards for the future IMO, for it forces Kostornaya and Shcherbakova to up their difficulty too. Not to mention the rest of the world ...

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I think Trusova is doing fine. Who's to say Anna won't lose her quads for good tomorrow? Or Alena and her 3A? I've said before that I think Sasha's problem is that she's just trying too much right now. Doing a 4 quad LP with four different quads takes a lot more effort than the same program with two different quads. She's also training a 3A that doesn't look very solid, and that takes away additional time she could spend perfecting fewer jumps. In the grand scheme of things, this isn't the most important season since we're a few years away from the Olympics, so she has plenty of time to sort things out and be more strategic in her layout.

 

[luckyu2]

I think Trusova is doing fine. Who's to say Anna won't lose her quads for good tomorrow? Or Alena and her 3A? I've said before that I think Sasha's problem is that she's just trying too much right now. Doing a 4 quad LP with four different quads takes a lot more effort than the same program with two different quads. She's also training a 3A that doesn't look very solid, and that takes away additional time she could spend perfecting fewer jumps. In the grand scheme of things, this isn't the most important season since we're a few years away from the Olympics, so she has plenty of time to sort things out and be more strategic in her layout.

If I were her, I would prioritize learning 3A and stabilizing the quads she already landed. The drive for men to have a variety of quads is to include in the fs as many as possible (though I think 5 is max even for men). Sasha already has enough quads to score the highest BV in fs.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

It's not just trusova I'm saying I'm general when young it's probably be best to go into major competions as the underdog so to speak & perform freely without the weight of the nation on your shoulders.
I fear for Alyssa Liu when she moves to seniors

Sorry, but not true. Saying this as someone who has been in the sport for a long time and wasn't always the underdog and have turned out just fine. Same with friends and teammates figure skating.

What is the obsession with this?