2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[katymay]

Kromykh, Muravieva, Frolova and Moroz (14 years old AFAIK) should be eligible, No idea about Osokina.

I love Osokina. I felt she was low balled today, hope she brings it tomorrow.

 

[Vilord]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPdd4ZZxPYM&t=1s
Here is the entire thing with Ted commetary

 

[Elucidus]

Having watched 4CC ladies SP and RusJrNat ladies SP in a row just one after another I can't help but notice - how much the latter competition was better! It was so much better that it's not even funny Even jaded Ted Barton was in some state of a shock in the end of the event watching so much quality there
And here I am not even talking about jumps (though it's worthy to mention that all 18 junior and novice girls there did 3-3 combos which weren't mere 3T-3T too) or cleanness (there was only one skater with falls). I mean PCS side of the skates. Maybe what I am going to say will sound too presumptuous for someone now - sorry for that But, for me, watched 4CC last flight just before - even novice girls such as Petrosyan or Akatieva - were better in skating skills, transitions and presentation - than any senior lady at 4CC was. Yep, even Tennell (who was best skater at 4CC IMO). They were just this good. Let it sink in you for some time..
Considering the above - arguments of many so called "mature skating" proponents becoming more and more ridiculous. And among them are even those who opposes raising senior age in favor of fair judging of components - being sure that it's effective fix for juniors TES advantage. I wonder - are they even understand that if judges will start to judge PCS fairly- corresponding to ISU rules criterias and not reputation - and judging just what they see on ice - the seniors will lose in PCS too? Yes, seniors looks more mature, for sure - but there isn't such criteria in PCS, you know
In the end - watching PCS judging in both these competitions - I realized that it turned to farce completely. There was this difference between what was shown on ice and actual scores. Seriously, watching like some mediocre skate at 4CC was getting 60+ score (any skater at RusJrNat with such performance would get 50 at best) and watching how brilliant skates at RusJrNat are getting mere 60+ (any "mature" lady with such performance would get 70+ easy) I can't help but feel myself deceived. Like ISU is just bunch of con artists who tries to sell some expired food to gullible customers. How should I call this? When novices and juniors PCS are limited artificially and they put special ceiling for them until their body matures and at the same time reputable veteran just running in circles in rink are getting high PCS/GOEs? Ah, yes - it's ageism discrimination. Well, it was just my 2 cents on the wave of first emotions after the events. I am not even sure what my point was for now Maybe that if this continues further - spectators will just lose any trust to judges at all - or there will be massive migration to junior competitions. Something needs to be changed in judging approach, I guess

 

[sk8kirsty]

"Khrustalnyi" (Crystal)

Thanks!

 

[katymay]

Agree. Just the basic speed of the Russian girls is so much better-and tiny little Adelia has to make her legs work overtime to attain that speed. The spins and transitions and amount of polish these little girls have is just astounding. (Of course stamina is easier when you are 12 vs. 16). And maybe it is easier when you are young, but most seemed to have nerves of steel, they came out, hit all their elements-all so well trained! All of the clubs (not just Eteri) deserve support for supplying such wonderfully trained kids.

 

[Edwin]

There aren't any videos on the FSRussia YouTube page... does anyone know if/where we can see the videos?

It would be nice if they cut the stream into individual routines and upload these in full HD@60fps, for these skaters deserve to have their programs presented in the highest possible quality.

 

[Tolstoj]

SP was essentially Sambo70 vs CSKA (Davydov) with results and judging more favourable towards Sambo70 interestingly enough, though as we all know a lot can change still in the free. Maiia Khromykh has to pay a dinner to the judges cause with that 3-2 she could have been 11th after the SP and no one would have complained.

No TAT here, also very surprising she has always had her seat in the past, sometimes even alongside the judges.

Besides that clearly Eteri has the best junior talents in Russia current and future: i've to say between the younger ones, i almost preferred Adelia Petrosian more, she attacked the program more aggressively with more speed than Akatieva and the spins were also faster and with prettier positions. That said Akatieva had some of the best transitions here. Beautiful arabesque at the beginning of the program.

I thought Adelia Petrosian, Sofia Moroz, and Anna Frolova all deserved slightly higher scores.

Best program and best surprise for me was actually Alina Gorbacheva's tango: yes she had the easiest combo here 3s-3t, but the choreography was very well done, acknowledging all the nuances of the music, i like how she holds her landing position without losing any speed at all.

 

[Fluture]

@Elucidus You know, no one stops you from watching the junior ladies and thinking of them as the epitome of artistic figure skating. Doesn‘t mean that everyone has to feel the same, though. For me the juniors are just that.. juniors. They‘re talented and cute and some show potential to grow into truly special performers with a bit more experience but in the end, no matter how brilliant they might be, they‘re still only kids. Even Kamila or Adelia or Sofia Moroz, who really stood out to me today in that they had a special quality were lacking that certain experience and yes, artistic maturity that influences all categories of PCS other than skating skills which is more technical. I‘ll give you an example that I can relate to: A kid may play a piece on the piano perfectly, not a note wrong, and yet the feeling, the deep emotion, that will only come with life experiences, personal growth as one matures as a person. I don‘t feel anything from watching most of these kids skate and why would I? They‘re brilliant but they‘re young and have time to grow and learn. They might be better than some senior skaters but certainly not better than most. If anybody wants to tell me a 12 year old is the epitome of artistry in any field, idk what to say.

Everyone has their own opinion, sure, but just because you enjoy watching (really talented, obviously) kids skate, doesn‘t mean we all want the sport to consist only of this. (or that you have to be so disrespectful to the skaters at 4CC for that matter) There‘s enough competitions for everyone, thankfully. You can stick to juniors. I‘ll watch seniors mostly because I like the different artistic perspective they bring. But juniors have a fun aspect too, I do watch and enjoy them. I‘d say: good for us that we have such a diverse mix and a great junior category with an insane amount of talented skaters.

 

[Edwin]

...

We can discuss this ad libitum ad nauseam, but the fact remains the Russia's circumstances are unique.

These kids, attend specialised sports schools with dedicated facilities and a whole staff of qualified trainers and support.
Most of them have daily ice time in excess of what many of those lower ranked 4CC competitors have in a week. And we don't even speak of basic fitness, conditioning and selection by athletic criteria.
The single more 'developed as a 13 y.o.', Vaytkus visibly struggled with the loads, none of the others did, packed with muscle like Samodelkina or lean and sinewy like Moroz, they didn't flinch, used to back-to-back skating runs.
Many of them rise at 5 am and don't get home till 8-9 pm six days a week. Homework and a few family, pets and social activities fill their free time. They are not to be envied, but the kids don't complain. Most enjoy their lives as top athletes.

If ISU decides to raise the age limit for seniors, what will they do about the juniors? Do they really care about longevity and sustainability of careers of Russian skaters and the few USA, KOR that challenge them?
AFAIK, the injury rate in 'lower' difficulty program is as high as in high difficulty programs, are trustworthy statistics even available?
Then ISU must curb difficulty and disallow ultra-si in Medior events, and perhaps even disallow triple-triple jumps in Juniors, 'to protect the young, ignorant and feeble, from their own, their parents, their trainers, their programs' ambitions?

All these discussions about age vs difficulty vs maturity always start and end with Russia's skaters, and #TeamTutberidzeForProgress' in particular.

So it all comes down to turning back time to the era of shortest dress and deepest cleavage again?

 

[Artemisa]

Regarding 'not good enough'... I think 3A have upped the standards way, way, way too high... it's obvious that 3A's case is a fluke, there cant be 3 superstars like that in every 2 years, even Eteri isn't that good

well... of course ... it's very difficult to find 3 girls with a first name with an A!!!... now with kamila, Daria, Sofia anda Maya ..

 

[lpt]

Heartwarming video of Samodelkina throwing a toy on ice for Valieva after her skate - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/650626256475389953/675057505507868685/1581016287902.mp4

 

[Edwin]

Heartwarming video of Samodelkina throwing a toy on ice for Valieva after her skate - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/650626256475389953/675057505507868685/1581016287902.mp4

And there were quite a lot of large, even huge plushy bears personally handed over to some skaters, seemed almost like a competition in itself ;-)

 

[lariko]

Lovely competition. I loved Petrosyan’s swift take off, and so many charming performances, put a smile on my face. But, yeah, then Valieva came out, and it was something else. So beautiful.... :sad46:

 

[Vandevska]

Kamila was really something else today. It was the type of performance of hers that made me really like her, only it was even better.

Watched about 2/3 of the competition. Some really bright stars there.

 

[Elucidus]

@Elucidus You know, no one stops you from watching the junior ladies and thinking of them as the epitome of artistic figure skating. Doesn‘t mean that everyone has to feel the same, though. For me the juniors are just that.. juniors. They‘re talented and cute and some show potential to grow into truly special performers with a bit more experience but in the end, no matter how brilliant they might be, they‘re still only kids. Even Kamila or Adelia or Sofia Moroz, who really stood out to me today in that they had a special quality were lacking that certain experience and yes, artistic maturity that influences all categories of PCS other than skating skills which is more technical. I‘ll give you an example that I can relate to: A kid may play a piece on the piano perfectly, not a note wrong, and yet the feeling, the deep emotion, that will only come with life experiences, personal growth as one matures as a person. I don‘t feel anything from watching most of these kids skate and why would I? They‘re brilliant but they‘re young and have time to grow and learn. They might be better than some senior skaters but certainly not better than most. If anybody wants to tell me a 12 year old is the epitome of artistry in any field, idk what to say.

Good analogy there ) In case of musician you can close your eyes and just hear the music. And it will evoke the same emotions - if performed perfectly - as with any adult performer. Because the piece was written by an adult. In figure skating it's the same. The programs are made by adults, the dresses are made by adults, the skater coached by adults, all moves and choreo is teached by adults - the whole performance is filled with what adult people wants to show. Basically you watching adult performance. If the execution is perfect enough - it fulfills its purpose. I don't know about others - but I am not interested in skater's personality when watching performance. True skating fan watches past the performer IMO - only what takes place on ice matters. It's the same as with movies. Most people watches them thinking about plot and characters - not actors themselves. Well, there are those who is more interested in actors of course - even during the movie - but those in minority, I think ))

These kids, attend specialised sports schools with dedicated facilities and a whole staff of qualified trainers and support.
Most of them have daily ice time in excess of what many of those lower ranked 4CC competitors have in a week. And we don't even speak of basic fitness, conditioning and selection by athletic criteria.

What do you imply then? Judges should make allowances for weaker skaters because of their training conditions? Notwithstanding what they showed on ice? 0_0

 

[flanker]

Having watched 4CC ladies SP and RusJrNat ladies SP in a row just one after another I can't help but notice - how much the latter competition was better! It was so much better that it's not even funny Even jaded Ted Barton was in some state of a shock in the end of the event watching so much quality there
And here I am not even talking about jumps (though it's worthy to mention that all 18 junior and novice girls there did 3-3 combos which weren't mere 3T-3T too) or cleanness (there was only one skater with falls). I mean PCS side of the skates. Maybe what I am going to say will sound too presumptuous for someone now - sorry for that But, for me, watched 4CC last flight just before - even novice girls such as Petrosyan or Akatieva - were better in skating skills, transitions and presentation - than any senior lady at 4CC was. Yep, even Tennell (who was best skater at 4CC IMO). They were just this good. Let it sink in you for some time..
Considering the above - arguments of many so called "mature skating" proponents becoming more and more ridiculous. And among them are even those who opposes raising senior age in favor of fair judging of components - being sure that it's effective fix for juniors TES advantage. I wonder - are they even understand that if judges will start to judge PCS fairly- corresponding to ISU rules criterias and not reputation - and judging just what they see on ice - the seniors will lose in PCS too? Yes, seniors looks more mature, for sure - but there isn't such criteria in PCS, you know
In the end - watching PCS judging in both these competitions - I realized that it turned to farce completely. There was this difference between what was shown on ice and actual scores. Seriously, watching like some mediocre skate at 4CC was getting 60+ score (any skater at RusJrNat with such performance would get 50 at best) and watching how brilliant skates at RusJrNat are getting mere 60+ (any "mature" lady with such performance would get 70+ easy) I can't help but feel myself deceived. Like ISU is just bunch of con artists who tries to sell some expired food to gullible customers. How should I call this? When novices and juniors PCS are limited artificially and they put special ceiling for them until their body matures and at the same time reputable veteran just running in circles in rink are getting high PCS/GOEs? Ah, yes - it's ageism discrimination. Well, it was just my 2 cents on the wave of first emotions after the events. I am not even sure what my point was for now Maybe that if this continues further - spectators will just lose any trust to judges at all - or there will be massive migration to junior competitions. Something needs to be changed in judging approach, I guess

@Elucidus You know, no one stops you from watching the junior ladies and thinking of them as the epitome of artistic figure skating. Doesn‘t mean that everyone has to feel the same, though. For me the juniors are just that.. juniors. They‘re talented and cute and some show potential to grow into truly special performers with a bit more experience but in the end, no matter how brilliant they might be, they‘re still only kids. Even Kamila or Adelia or Sofia Moroz, who really stood out to me today in that they had a special quality were lacking that certain experience and yes, artistic maturity that influences all categories of PCS other than skating skills which is more technical. I‘ll give you an example that I can relate to: A kid may play a piece on the piano perfectly, not a note wrong, and yet the feeling, the deep emotion, that will only come with life experiences, personal growth as one matures as a person. I don‘t feel anything from watching most of these kids skate and why would I? They‘re brilliant but they‘re young and have time to grow and learn. They might be better than some senior skaters but certainly not better than most. If anybody wants to tell me a 12 year old is the epitome of artistry in any field, idk what to say.

Everyone has their own opinion, sure, but just because you enjoy watching (really talented, obviously) kids skate, doesn‘t mean we all want the sport to consist only of this. (or that you have to be so disrespectful to the skaters at 4CC for that matter) There‘s enough competitions for everyone, thankfully. You can stick to juniors. I‘ll watch seniors mostly because I like the different artistic perspective they bring. But juniors have a fun aspect too, I do watch and enjoy them. I‘d say: good for us that we have such a diverse mix and a great junior category with an insane amount of talented skaters.

Well, at Euros, when Anna and Aliona finished their short programs and Nicole Schott was about to skate, the czech commentator I "like" so much has claimed: "It's about time to show these kids how the true artistic skating should look like." Well, it didn't happen, because to be honest, Nicole's SP was anything but the example of the "true artistic skating", which even him was forced to admit ("well, this program was probably not the best choice" or something similar), I liked the taste of the sour grapes that was so obvious in his comment after Nicole has finished...

As for comparing the 4CC and Russian junior nationals, maybe I'm not as categoric as Elucidus, but if there is some margin in artistry with some of the adult skaters at 4CC, it's not so significant to me and nothing that could not be equalled in just a year or two. But then there si still the technical level that just Rika, You, and Bradie can more or less equalize (and maybe Kaori, if she gets her consistency back). And it is less difficult to have technique and gain more artistry with the age than the other way around.

As for the music played by youngsters, I've already used Alexandra Dovgan as a measure:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQSJdDEmzpA

We can also speak about Alisa Sadikova or Anastasia Tyurina:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1-LCnGojnw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MuaLOh_6gw

And there could be others whose not only technique but also "artistry" fully satisfies me. Yes, others can listen adult Celine Dion and call it artistry, but I prefer it my way

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

I honestly feel like Samodelkina was pretty underscored here. Not her best performance, but with that very nice 3A+3T she should've been at around 70, give or take a point.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

I'm really proud of Sofia Muravyeva, the only girl besides Valieva and Usacheva to get step sequence 4! I've always like her skating, and felt as if her SS and sep sequences were underrated.

 

[Elucidus]

I honestly feel like Samodelkina was pretty underscored here. Not her best performance, but with that very nice 3A+3T she should've been at around 70, give or take a point.

The TP panel wasn't pro-CSKA as usual. She lost levels on her steps and spins.

I'm really proud of Sofia Muravyeva, the only girl besides Valieva and Usacheva to get step sequence 4! I've always like her skating, and felt as if her SS and sep sequences were underrated.

Who is her coach now? She was the only person in the K&C.

 

[vesperalvioletta]

I honestly feel like Samodelkina was pretty underscored here. Not her best performance, but with that very nice 3A+3T she should've been at around 70, give or take a point.

I could be mistaken, but I believe her 3A was called underrotated.