- Joined
- Sep 22, 2019
That sounds painful
Well in this case it didn't 'end up' but already started out as such with the OP's first post.
This combo is useless. You'd prefer 4X-3Lo backlogged
A 4T as his last jumping pass??
Lol, wonky air position... I mean sure, not every jump is perfect all the time in competition (especially not when performed after 4-5 quads) but in general there's nothing 'wrong' with his air position.
You are right this is a thread about beating “artistically and technically less sound” Nathan from the very beginning.
I looked at gpf flip a number of times. It's a shallow inside edge (perfect edge for flip - if its deep inside then will have too much prerotation). It's not an outside - thats for sure.
It would be the 8th element of his program and come at less than 3 minutes into the program, if he planned smartly. He's already been doing 4Toe as the 8th element of the program, he did it successfully at the GPF. It's better to go for the 3Axel+3Toe before the last 4Toe, because that element is worth more; it's important to make sure he gets the 3Toe out, instead of leaving it for the end and maybe only being able to a 2Toe. It's also choreographically more pleasing, having the jump types spread out, and doing a final toepick jump at the end of the rink and then going into a footwork sequence. Exciting!
https://s.amsu.ng/zPzWWpgmgLyN
And I see shallow inside.
When you look from side or front side it will always be ambiguous with flip. From back you can see his boot in the circle slightly. Hence, shallow inside. Especially if you watch the replay from official youtube video, and watch entire edge than it's easier to see it's an inside than from 1 photograph.
Is it a trend that every Yuzuru related thread would end up as fight about Yuzu being underscored while Nathan being overscored?
There is a judging and technical call thread for that.
https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?83531-2019-Judging-and-Tech-calls-discussion/page22
https://s.amsu.ng/zPzWWpgmgLyN
And I see shallow inside.
When you look from side or front side it will always be ambiguous with flip. From back you can see his boot in the circle slightly. Hence, shallow inside. Especially if you watch the replay from official youtube video, and watch entire edge than it's easier to see it's an inside than from 1 photograph.
This is a very interesting analysis. Although I don’t think Yuzuru is actually planning to incorporate a 4A into his future programs, I have a feeling it is just a challenge that keeps his competetive drive going. I don’t believe Yuzuru actually thinks the 4A will be his weapon to beat Nathan. Unless he would get it ridiculously consistent, then maybe.
Fact is Yuzu is constantly underscored, Nathan is constantly overscored. ISU is sending a very clear message - they will not allow Yuzu to win anymore, they will not score fairly. We are basically at a point where NC is getting almost the same PCS as Yuzu. If Yuzuru decides to go for his 3rd Olympic Gold, he will be at a massive disadvantage, there will be a lot of officials trying to keep him from becoming an even greater legend than he already is.
This is why I think you are right BoP. If he indeed wants to go for 2022 he should be very smart about it. And the layout you showed looks very Good and doable indeed. I am always scared about his 4Lo because it tends to be... moody.
This is a very interesting analysis. Although I don’t think Yuzuru is actually planning to incorporate a 4A into his future programs, I have a feeling it is just a challenge that keeps his competetive drive going. I don’t believe Yuzuru actually thinks the 4A will be his weapon to beat Nathan. Unless he would get it ridiculously consistent, then maybe.
Fact is Yuzu is constantly underscored, Nathan is constantly overscored. ISU is sending a very clear message - they will not allow Yuzu to win anymore, they will not score fairly. We are basically at a point where NC is getting almost the same PCS as Yuzu. If Yuzuru decides to go for his 3rd Olympic Gold, he will be at a massive disadvantage, there will be a lot of officials trying to keep him from becoming an even greater legend than he already is.
This is why I think you are right BoP. If he indeed wants to go for 2022 he should be very smart about it. And the layout you showed looks very Good and doable indeed. I am always scared about his 4Lo because it tends to be... moody.
7 jumping passes, only 1 repeat quad allowed.
For the Men who now attempt 5 quads (one repeat) in the Long Program, your last two jump elements to safely maximize base value are a 3Axel and a 3Lutz+3Toe combo. This is the layout Nathen Chen goes for, and it's quite ridiculous with the tiresome and nonsensical rules we currently live under, that these heavily Quaded-out programs now dissuade the Men from attempting a second Triple Axel, since a 3Axel+2Toe combo (or even a 3Axel+2Loop combo) is worth less than the 3Lutz+3Toe.
That is, unless you can do the +3Loop combo. Hanyu has a wonderful 3Axel, much better than Chen's. If he could incorporate a 3Axel+3Loop, this would give him a 2.8 point base value advantage over Chen's unexciting 3Lutz+3Toe (which has a wonky air position, lack of flow on the landing, and not much height, yet still somehow receives +4GOE from several judges).
The ideal jump layout for Hanyu would be:
4Loop
4Lutz
3Axel+3Loop
4Sal
4Toe+half loop+3Flip
3Axel+3Toe
4Toe
If he is smart in the upcoming 2 seasons, leading to his 3rd Olympic Gold medal, then his future programs will be planned exactly to take advantage of the rules and allow him to do these jumps with the maximum amount of energy remaining. How do you achieve this? You plan your first half of the program to have 4 jump elements and just 1 spin, and then your 5th jump element comes immediately at the halfway point, followed by the last two jump elements. After that you can do your last 2 spins and both footwork sequences, which are worth so much less points, and which the judges will just throw a bunch of +GOE at anyway, because they are imperceptive little sheep who don't differentiate well enough in the scores.
The 4Lutz with that layout can safely be downgraded to just a 3Lutz at competitions where Hanyu doesn't want to overpush himself (and the 4Toe+half loop+3Flip, to +3Sal instead), allowing him to retain muscle memory of an entire jump layout for the next 2 years, and peak at the important 2021 Worlds and 2022 Olympics, where hopefully he will not be cheesed out by the less artistic and less technically sound (although consistent) skating of Nathan Chen.
Funny, you were arguing for ISU to increase the BV of 4A and now you want to forget about 4A and ask Hanyu to learn 3A3Lo so he “will not be cheesed out (maybe crushed, destroyed, or smashed is more accurate) by the less artistic and less technically sound skating of Nathan Chen.” But I don’t think Hanyu will take your advice as his goal seems to have changed from ‘losing is death to me,’ ‘I must beat Nathan with overwhelming power,’ ‘I must win Worlds,’ ‘I must win GPF,’ to ‘I just want to skate my type of skating’ and ‘land the first 4A in competition.’