- Joined
- Mar 16, 2019
Btw, there’s going to be a live training session with Anna and Aliona.
2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2018
(Note to myself: Damn, this friday noon we are opening offers in a tender...)
I'm curious whether it will be similar to Alina+Daniil session
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
Because the discussion about Eteri‘s been going on for a while. I don’t think talking endlessly about her coaching methods is a good idea since clearly, people have very different viewpoints on this and we‘ve seen in the past how quickly something like this escalates. That‘s why I won‘t go into this, I‘ve made my personal stand on this obvious many times before.
I would like to say, however, that there are points Tolstoj makes that shouldn‘t be ignored or ridiculed which, sadly, is a common pattern in this thread. If someone doesn‘t have a counter argument, they go back to sarcasm, or calling the opposing opinion “slander and rumours“. Which it mostly isn‘t.
Now, I do not believe Eteri is controlling the whole Russian figure skating media, frankly, that sounds pretty far-fetched. But what I do see and imo, it‘s quite clear, too, is that they‘ve got a very strong PR machine. Meaning that they know how to play the media wars very well. And they do it and have constantly done it; major case of course when a student leaves them.
We‘ve seen it time and again and we‘ve had the three major experiences with Lipnitskaya, Medvedeva and Trusova, all three the most prominent students to leave Eteri. And in every case they got a heavy slamming in the media after they left. Everyone knows about Evgenia and Yulia, it‘s old news what happened there.
Alexandra, however, I found very interesting but mostly sad, what happened. She is 15, she‘s a child, she hasn‘t been with the team for too long so she got the “mild“ version. Not a full-on war modus like with Evgenia and Yulia, everything was more subtle. And yet they still had a member of their ex coaching team openly call her a traitor and have her ex-choreographer mention in interviews how she hasn‘t picked up the phone, didn‘t react when they tried to contact her, etc. In the media there’s articles calling her problematic, saying she wasn’t listening to the coaches and so on. What they‘re implying here is quite clear (even more clear when we consider the dance coach and his comments which neither Eteri nor Daniil made any attempts to refute) and it isn‘t nice.
Yet it works like a charm. How quickly did we see Sasha go from a hard worker and disciplined student to someone who’s problematic and whose parents are business people who are only after the money in the mind of some? How often have we seen it already that fans believe everything they‘re being told and basically react with: “Well, yes, but XY must have made mistakes, it is justified Eteri and team reacted this way, however, YX would do everything properly if they ever decided to leave.“ I mean, we‘ve seen it with the 3A already, everyone was saying how they‘d “honor“ Eteri and surprise surprise, when it did happen, Sasha did do everything the way she was supposed to, promised those flowers, thanked the team, didn‘t utter a bad word and yet she‘s still (indirectly) painted as problematic by her team and subsequently the fans. And to no surprise whatsoever, I‘ve already read in another thread: “Well, but if Anna was to leave, SHE would do everything properly.“ What does that tell us there? Like it or not, it looks like a pattern to me. Wouldn‘t surprise me if that‘s what the athletes think too, “nothing‘s going to happen to me if I ever leave, the others before me must have done something wrong.“
Now, there‘s nothing wrong with hurt feelings after leaving a coach, especially if the joint relationship turned to many successes, experiences and medals. Coaches are human too. But the systematic bad-mouthing of students in the media whenever someone leaves sounds and looks a lot like sour grapes (wounded pride) to me and it‘s just in bad taste. Especially since it can and does affect athletes negatively.
And I know Team Tutberidze aren’t the only ones who do this, Plushenko and Buyanova and even Mishin have acted way out of line after students left them.
For seniors, I think it was only the main team that was invited (+plus Stasya?), so I‘m not sure whether all of Guliakova, Sinitsyna and Samodurova will be there. Also, I guess that if there‘s test skates this season, they‘d likely not be a huge spectacle like the last few seasons but rather more private.
As for GP spots (again if there‘s a GP season), I‘d say Sofia deserves to get two spots. Stasya‘s gotten hers for years and she hasn‘t had the kind of consistency Sofia‘s shown. Sofia‘s been consistent for two seasons in a row, even last season when she was dealing with a major growth spurt. It was more her not being deemed important enough anymore in the eyes of the fed, combined with not being as engaging as she used to be, that saw her scores drop so shockingly. But she‘s shown she‘s reliable and imo, she deserves a chance. Yes, Guliakova and Sinitsyna are great too but I feel like Sofia‘s so underrated and it makes me really sad on her behalf.
For juniors, I‘m excited to see Petrosyan‘s and Osokina‘s debut, they both caught my eye at Junior Nationals. Petrosyan especially is amazing.
Also, do you all think Kseniia will go senior next season? I‘m a bit at a loss here. In seniors, she‘d likely be overshadowed by the 3A and in juniors, I think she could definitely contend with Maiia, Daria, Adelia and the others... however, it‘s not going to be easier and given the state of Russian ladies, missing the chance to establish yourself as a threat on the senior GP can prove to be fatal.
Also, speaking of that, wondering what will happen to Tarakanova. She‘s so talented (her skating skills; imo, some of the very best out there) but she‘s had quite a bit of bad luck the last few seasons... I would hate if she missed out on proving herself.
And I do realise I‘m rambling but there‘s just too many Russian ladies who are all so talented. I wish there was spots and medals for all of them.
I would like to say, however, that there are points Tolstoj makes that shouldn‘t be ignored or ridiculed which, sadly, is a common pattern in this thread. If someone doesn‘t have a counter argument, they go back to sarcasm, or calling the opposing opinion “slander and rumours“. Which it mostly isn‘t.
Now, I do not believe Eteri is controlling the whole Russian figure skating media, frankly, that sounds pretty far-fetched. But what I do see and imo, it‘s quite clear, too, is that they‘ve got a very strong PR machine. Meaning that they know how to play the media wars very well. And they do it and have constantly done it; major case of course when a student leaves them.
We‘ve seen it time and again and we‘ve had the three major experiences with Lipnitskaya, Medvedeva and Trusova, all three the most prominent students to leave Eteri. And in every case they got a heavy slamming in the media after they left. Everyone knows about Evgenia and Yulia, it‘s old news what happened there.
Alexandra, however, I found very interesting but mostly sad, what happened. She is 15, she‘s a child, she hasn‘t been with the team for too long so she got the “mild“ version. Not a full-on war modus like with Evgenia and Yulia, everything was more subtle. And yet they still had a member of their ex coaching team openly call her a traitor and have her ex-choreographer mention in interviews how she hasn‘t picked up the phone, didn‘t react when they tried to contact her, etc. In the media there’s articles calling her problematic, saying she wasn’t listening to the coaches and so on. What they‘re implying here is quite clear (even more clear when we consider the dance coach and his comments which neither Eteri nor Daniil made any attempts to refute) and it isn‘t nice.
Yet it works like a charm. How quickly did we see Sasha go from a hard worker and disciplined student to someone who’s problematic and whose parents are business people who are only after the money in the mind of some? How often have we seen it already that fans believe everything they‘re being told and basically react with: “Well, yes, but XY must have made mistakes, it is justified Eteri and team reacted this way, however, YX would do everything properly if they ever decided to leave.“ I mean, we‘ve seen it with the 3A already, everyone was saying how they‘d “honor“ Eteri and surprise surprise, when it did happen, Sasha did do everything the way she was supposed to, promised those flowers, thanked the team, didn‘t utter a bad word and yet she‘s still (indirectly) painted as problematic by her team and subsequently the fans. And to no surprise whatsoever, I‘ve already read in another thread: “Well, but if Anna was to leave, SHE would do everything properly.“ What does that tell us there? Like it or not, it looks like a pattern to me. Wouldn‘t surprise me if that‘s what the athletes think too, “nothing‘s going to happen to me if I ever leave, the others before me must have done something wrong.“
Now, there‘s nothing wrong with hurt feelings after leaving a coach, especially if the joint relationship turned to many successes, experiences and medals. Coaches are human too. But the systematic bad-mouthing of students in the media whenever someone leaves sounds and looks a lot like sour grapes (wounded pride) to me and it‘s just in bad taste. Especially since it can and does affect athletes negatively.
And I know Team Tutberidze aren’t the only ones who do this, Plushenko and Buyanova and even Mishin have acted way out of line after students left them.
For seniors, I think it was only the main team that was invited (+plus Stasya?), so I‘m not sure whether all of Guliakova, Sinitsyna and Samodurova will be there. Also, I guess that if there‘s test skates this season, they‘d likely not be a huge spectacle like the last few seasons but rather more private.
As for GP spots (again if there‘s a GP season), I‘d say Sofia deserves to get two spots. Stasya‘s gotten hers for years and she hasn‘t had the kind of consistency Sofia‘s shown. Sofia‘s been consistent for two seasons in a row, even last season when she was dealing with a major growth spurt. It was more her not being deemed important enough anymore in the eyes of the fed, combined with not being as engaging as she used to be, that saw her scores drop so shockingly. But she‘s shown she‘s reliable and imo, she deserves a chance. Yes, Guliakova and Sinitsyna are great too but I feel like Sofia‘s so underrated and it makes me really sad on her behalf.
For juniors, I‘m excited to see Petrosyan‘s and Osokina‘s debut, they both caught my eye at Junior Nationals. Petrosyan especially is amazing.
Also, do you all think Kseniia will go senior next season? I‘m a bit at a loss here. In seniors, she‘d likely be overshadowed by the 3A and in juniors, I think she could definitely contend with Maiia, Daria, Adelia and the others... however, it‘s not going to be easier and given the state of Russian ladies, missing the chance to establish yourself as a threat on the senior GP can prove to be fatal.
Also, speaking of that, wondering what will happen to Tarakanova. She‘s so talented (her skating skills; imo, some of the very best out there) but she‘s had quite a bit of bad luck the last few seasons... I would hate if she missed out on proving herself.
And I do realise I‘m rambling but there‘s just too many Russian ladies who are all so talented. I wish there was spots and medals for all of them.
You know damn well what kind of gratitude that was. Haters were jumping with joy while reading the troll post
I‘m not sure whether I should laugh or cry at the “I‘m sure there will be an opportunity to give my great coach more than one bouquet of her favorite flowers“. I‘m sorry but... what a legend.
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
Why, though? The fact that this whole flower thing has become a meme doesn‘t change that Sasha did nothing to warrant the treatment she‘s gotten in the media and from her ex-coaches. She showed gratitude, what people interpret into that post isn‘t her fault.
Yes, reading it at first I found it ironic, in a tongue-in-cheek kind of way. BUT - and you might have wanted to follow up with my second post on that matter - at second thought I wondered whether it actually might have been her wanting to prevent any future drama. And if that‘s the case and it‘s not just her (or whoever wrote that post) having a good sense of humour; then it‘s more sad than anything. Because it would mean that a 15-year old child and her parents are so worried about possible retaliations in the media that they have to actually clarify they‘d bring flowers and everything else.
It doesn‘t change that ultimately, Sasha showed gratefulness and a good, mature response in that she stayed silent until she made her post and didn‘t utter a bad word about anyone. For me this is a thoughtful reaction, especially for a 15 year old.
Also, I do not consider myself a hater of anyone but I realize the definitions of this particular word might differ in here.
There were whole eight hours of peace. What else I could ask for
No reason not to have peace. There is (or should be) a place for discussions without calling each other “haters“ and whatnot.
So, since I guess ultimately we‘re all here because we love the Russian ladies, here‘s a meme about them.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAStRROpxs9/?igshid=1db6rl4baw6mv
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2018
No reason not to have peace. There is (or should be) a place for discussions without calling each other “haters“ and whatnot.
So, since I guess ultimately we‘re all here because we love the Russian ladies, here‘s a meme about them.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAStRROpxs9/?igshid=1db6rl4baw6mv
Truly no reason not to have peace in discussion, if the discussion can have a point. I can accept any opinion, but I think I can get it after one presentation. Cato the Elder with his "Carthago delenda est" was at least brief, but reading the same claims (esp. when the claims are truly badly supported by evidence while ignoring actual counter-evidence) of the range of at least one A4 page five times a day can disturb one's peace. Eight hours without the same was truly refreshing and brought the opportunity to finally talk about something completely different
As for the meme, I'm not good in recognizing the cartoon heroes, unfortunately, my bad. (here should be an emoticon, I didn't find proper one for this place)
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2006
I think it is highly unfair to reduce Eteri to only be able to teach skaters for a short career. Russian ladies has such insane depth. Unprecedented really. Zagitova would be national champion of almost every other country for the next five years with her supposedly awful Eteri Technique Even Gubanova. Possibly Sotskova. Don’t denigrate Eteri. The girls are just getting insanely better.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2018
one does not exclude the other, you can have depth and also short career...
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2019
These situations all have multiple truths, everyone has their own. None of us even sees a full picture, it’s just bits and pieces here and there. Based on that incomplete information and our own life/experience/preferences we lean towards one or another view of the situation.
I’d say, Fluture, you have your point of view, because there’s already some bias prior to that. (Read it till the end, no ill intentions). As a Evgenia fan, you have already a certain negative perception of Eteri to begin with because of how they parted ways. That’s understandable and normal. Then there’s your age, I assume you’re closer to the age of Evgenia and other girls their age, so naturally you can relate more to her rather than Eteri. The country you’re from, your upbringing, your personal situations, your surroundings, all of that forms how you think and feel about those things.
Same thing is right for me and everyone else. I’m quite biased too. We all have biases, pre-conditions, perceptions and experiences that determine how we view situations. I don’t think there are any media campaigns in place, I just don’t. I’ve worked in close proximity to PR and marketing, and to my eye none of it looks like a campaign. If someone consumes a lot of 1 type content, lives in FS bubble, then there definitely could be a reason to have a skewed vision that FS is *that important for people to have PR teams and campaigns. The reality is imo quite different.
Another thing would be that I have had some personal encounters with coaches (not from FS). Athletes leaving without letting them know is something that happened to some of them, it’s not all that rare. Knowing their experiences also shifts my perception and makes me somewhat biased to how I see things.
Lastly, cultural differences also affect how we see things. During my studies in Europe my professor once told me: „In Russia teachers are treated like Gods. I want my students to treat me like that“. It was a joke, but there is truth to that. In Russia (and in some Asian cultures) it is some sort of an unspoken cultural conduct to treat teachers with a lot of special respect, with strict subordination one may say. I don’t know how to explain it, but there’s definitely a big difference. If you’ve experienced it, you know what it’s like.
That is to say, we all have our own understanding of situations. We can only speak on how things look from our personal perspective.
However! the consistent portrayal of Eteri as a mega powerful Anti-Christ arch-villain, who eats babies for breakfast is getting a little bit tiring for everyone. she for sure is not an angel, not the best of the best or whatever.
But the „she controls all media organizations in Russia, she owns ISU and all the judges, including those in domestic competitions in foreign countries, and all russian figure skating“ from some of the users here does sound absurd to me. To me it compares to „5g causes corona“ type of conspiracies.
I’d say, Fluture, you have your point of view, because there’s already some bias prior to that. (Read it till the end, no ill intentions). As a Evgenia fan, you have already a certain negative perception of Eteri to begin with because of how they parted ways. That’s understandable and normal. Then there’s your age, I assume you’re closer to the age of Evgenia and other girls their age, so naturally you can relate more to her rather than Eteri. The country you’re from, your upbringing, your personal situations, your surroundings, all of that forms how you think and feel about those things.
Same thing is right for me and everyone else. I’m quite biased too. We all have biases, pre-conditions, perceptions and experiences that determine how we view situations. I don’t think there are any media campaigns in place, I just don’t. I’ve worked in close proximity to PR and marketing, and to my eye none of it looks like a campaign. If someone consumes a lot of 1 type content, lives in FS bubble, then there definitely could be a reason to have a skewed vision that FS is *that important for people to have PR teams and campaigns. The reality is imo quite different.
Another thing would be that I have had some personal encounters with coaches (not from FS). Athletes leaving without letting them know is something that happened to some of them, it’s not all that rare. Knowing their experiences also shifts my perception and makes me somewhat biased to how I see things.
Lastly, cultural differences also affect how we see things. During my studies in Europe my professor once told me: „In Russia teachers are treated like Gods. I want my students to treat me like that“. It was a joke, but there is truth to that. In Russia (and in some Asian cultures) it is some sort of an unspoken cultural conduct to treat teachers with a lot of special respect, with strict subordination one may say. I don’t know how to explain it, but there’s definitely a big difference. If you’ve experienced it, you know what it’s like.
That is to say, we all have our own understanding of situations. We can only speak on how things look from our personal perspective.
However! the consistent portrayal of Eteri as a mega powerful Anti-Christ arch-villain, who eats babies for breakfast is getting a little bit tiring for everyone. she for sure is not an angel, not the best of the best or whatever.
But the „she controls all media organizations in Russia, she owns ISU and all the judges, including those in domestic competitions in foreign countries, and all russian figure skating“ from some of the users here does sound absurd to me. To me it compares to „5g causes corona“ type of conspiracies.
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2019
Last year they only invited girls who had two GP spots, so I think that is the criteria for being invited to test skates.
As for GP spots, I don't think it has to do with who deserves the spots, but who wins them by their results. Sofia is in the top 24 WS list, and unlike last year there aren't too many girls among the two top 24 lists to give them all spots. So, Sofia will almost certainly get two spots again, and at least one. However, I think we have to agree disagree that she is underrated. She is super consistent which is amazing, but she has been recognized for this consistency a lot, by making national teams, world teams, and winning euros. However, I don't think that up to this point she has shown world champion levels of skating, like many of the other Russians have (I don't mean they've won a worlds, but for example Sasha, Alyona, and Anna have all given performances that could win a recent worlds and all have super amazing qualities that almost no one else have). Her best qualities imo are consistency and sometimes being a good performer, but her jumps are small, she doesn't have more difficult jumps to make her stand out, and her skating skills aren't the greatest. And although she can perform, I don't think she's shown Anna levels of musicality and performance. She's a decent top level skater, but she has shown that even if she skates her best, she doesn't place top 5 in the world, and unfortunately for her, she's in a country that has 8+ girls that could do that.
As for Ksenia, she absolutely should go senior. She not only is on the top 24 SB list, but she's high on it, and would almost for sure get 2 spots. Yes she's going to be competing against the 3A, but in juniors there's Kamila and Daria, and thats not much better. Imo its super difficult to get on the senior GP as a Russian lady and this year she has a shot, so she should just take her spot while she can. There's no point in passing up the shot to go senior, when other talented girls like Tarakanova and Gubanova have never had the chance (still crossing my fingers for Tarakanova though). And even though Ksenia will be facing tough competition from the 6 top senior ladies from Russia, I could still see her medalling at a GP event if things happen in her favor. Worlds and Euros are going to be a tough bet either way, but I don't think she should give up the spot on the senior GP so that she could hope for a junior world title that she probably could only get if Kamila messes up big-time. She also has much higher scoring potential than Sofia. Her jumps are bigger and more difficult with great transitions, which means that she can get higher GOE, and her SS and musicality are amazing.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
Totally agree re: Ksenia! This is her chance to try to break through as the only new senior moving up with 2 assignments (likely) next season.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2011
so. much. truth.
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2006
Exactly. This is her season to prove herself as a senior. Before VUK makes their mark in the Olympic season.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2012
What is VUK? I know this Vuk solely https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXXkt9mHJzc
Valieva, Usacheva, Kanisheva?
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2018
Khromykh.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2017
Valieva, Usacheva, Khromykh I believe. All are going senior in 21/22 and train at Sambo 70.They got an abbreviation just like the other three Eteri students - Anna, Aliona, Alexandra.
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2014
I'm 95% sure I'm smelling a "15yo junior in their first senior year upsets favorites for Olympic gold" 2.0 with Kamila.
