Alexei YAGUDIN: “I’M COMING BACK”

[Tonichelle]

Plushenko/Yagudin in pairs: didn't they just do that movie?

I am not really sure if busting up laughing is really proof of just how funny that comment was, or just how tired I am, but I wanted to let you know you gave me a good laugh tonight!

 

[Jaana]

Again, try to be realistic. He never skated the programe with difficult footwork, good spins and intricate choreo. His musicality cannot be compared with Lambiels, Weirs, Battles. The Speed? The ice coverage? Yes, but now we have good skaters with difficult footwork, good spins, intricate choreo, the speed, the flow, the ice coverage.

I understand what you are meaning. Yagudin has not skated to CoP programmes, the 6.0 ones of course are different and easier, so to speak. Since his eligible days the skating has moved on. I have never thought that Yagudin´s footwork is something special, it though got reactions from the audiences because of the showiness. About two years ago Yagudin had kind of CoP experience in Japan Open. The CoP judges rated his footwork as level 1, I believe.

As far as I remember, Yagudin´s speed and ice coverage were not something special, but he was a great competitor and wonderfully consistent in his jumping.

 

[antmanb]

You seem to want to persist with this, even after I implied I was satisfied with Hockeyfan's post.

You got it! There is now no doubt left in anyone's mind that the ISU does what ever it wants. Now can you give an opinion on that or are you afraid that you will get the treatment Sally Stapleford got for objecting to the mob? Be brave and say you object for the ISU to not explain exceptions. Or say you bow to your leader without any question.

From what Hockeyfan said, I am satisfied to realize that the Federations have to explain to the ISU why they are pushing a non eligible skater to get an Exception to the Rules. Sorry, I didn't know that at the beginning but then going through these pages no one said the ISU can do what it wants without explanation, although I asked early on for clarification. (I was never against Yagudin personally.)

Now can you open up and let some of us know how you feel about exceptions to the Eligibility Rules without fear of the Stapleford consequences. I can assure you that they will still let you continue judging.

Joe

I have made my feelings of disdain abundantly clear about the omnipotent power of the ISU and its treatment of the whistle blowers in SLC , but if it's taught me one thing it is that you can't win against the ISU. The people who were trying to do good in the sport (the SLC whistleblowers et al) couldn't beat them and the WSF couldn't beat them or legally challenge the ISU's monopoly. And for the record - i'm not an official or in anyway associated with the ISU or NISA so i have no fear of the ISU - they can't punish me nor does my livlihood depend on skating. This isn't 1984 Joe - in case you didn't realise the ISU in not my (or your leader). The skaters may think so and the officials may well think so and they'd probably be right. The ISU's actions are not black and white. It's a sea of grey.

I think the ellgibility rules are pretty much defunct given the lack of any pro competition to speak of, which is why i didn't really care whether exceptions to the rules were made or if the rules were simply changed. Both require that the ISU is convinced one way or another and as we've clearly pointed out the ISU will do or say whatever it likes...it might change the rule for long enough to allow a few people to re-instate and then change it back again....sound familiar?

I kept it up because you took Hockeyfans post and drew your own conclusion from it. You seem to put a lot of credence in a rule change compared to an exception...what i've said is that they are both more or less the same thing when done by the ISU, that's all. Perhaps i should have just asked a rhetorical question and asked "am i correct?" at the end. You seem to prefer that style of posting.


Ant

 

[antmanb]

His only real asset is his consistency and mental toughness, but that is not enough anymore.

Oh come on - i don't care for lysacek's skating but what you wrote in your post was that he now has a quad plus the statement above, which just to re-iterate says he has mental toughness and consistency.

So to recap, if a male skater has:

- a quad;
- consistency;
mental toughness.

That is not enough? What more do they need and which skaters do you think have more than this?

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Ant Quote:

kept it up because you took Hockeyfans post and drew your own conclusion from it. You seem to put a lot of credence in a rule change compared to an exception...what i've said is that they are both more or less the same thing when done by the ISU, that's all. Perhaps i should have just asked a rhetorical question and asked "am i correct?" at the end. You seem to prefer that style of posting.

I don't seem to; I do put a lot of difference between changing a rule and giving an exception to the rule. But otherwise, happy to see you opened up on your astute views on this topic even after the topic died out. I assume you will answer this to get the last word in. You seem to prefer the last word style of debate. Am I correct?

Joe

 

[Mathman]

About two years ago Yagudin had kind of CoP experience in Japan Open. The CoP judges rated his footwork as level 1, I believe.

To me, that tells the whole story of the CoP. The last time I really enjoyed watching a men's figure skating program was Yagudin's Winter in 2001. That's gone.

But on the bright side, there has been one ladies' CoP program that was thrilling to watch -- Slutskaya's 2005 Worlds LP. So I guess we take the good with the bad.

 

[Ptichka]

To me, that tells the whole story of the CoP. The last time I really enjoyed watching a men's figure skating program was Yagudin's Winter in 2001. That's gone.

Somehow, I think that if there is one person who can create a thrilling CoP-friendly program, it should be TT.

 

[Zanzibar]

Somehow, I think that if there is one person who can create a thrilling CoP-friendly program, it should be TT.

I will have an interview with Alexei up on the International Figure Skating magazine website today and will post when it's out. There is a section where he discusses some program plans.

 

[Zazanuka]

To me, that tells the whole story of the CoP. The last time I really enjoyed watching a men's figure skating program was Yagudin's Winter in 2001. That's gone.

It is strange to read it because after 2001 there were programs much more interesting than Winter. What has prejudiced you against modern skating?

 

[Mathman]

^ I don't know. The "modern" programs just don't seem to have the same emotional impact, to me.

For instance, I enjoyed Lambiel's 2004 worlds LP, where he got fourth place, better than either of his two World championship performances.

In ladies, what could be more exciting than the battle among Ando, Asada and Kim for the 2007 world championship? And yet, I did not keep any of these perfromances on tape, to watch over and over for the sheer joy of it, like I do Michelle Kwan's Red Violin exhibition at 2000 Worlds.

Getting old and nostalgic, I guess.

 

[bekalc]

I think Alexei is a very talented skater, who in his prime would have had no issues adapting to COP's new rules.. Whether it be footwork, spins etc. Plushenko adapted why couldn't Alexei have adapted?

Whether he's healthy enough to do it now is another story, but I think it's foolish to right him off based on what he did in the past... It wasn't necessary in the other system for Alexei to have harder footwork.

 

[Zanzibar]

I posted the new IFS Magazine interview with Alexei that just came up a few minutes ago. It's in a new thread since it's a different article. Thanks.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Just my opinon. I thought the rivalry between Alexei and Evgeni was as tense as any championship can get, and I enjoyed every minute of it. Didn't find anyone else that interesting. But if this were on a poll, I would vote for the Men's Final in Tokyo. Unfortunately, we have to consider the SP but the Final had blockbuster performances by Takahashi, Lambiel, Verner and Berntsson. Great skating that night!!!

Joe

 

[Dee4707]

Note to self:
Add Niza to the list of posters who can't be taken seriously.

Self:
Done.

Excellent Point!!!

Dee

 

[hockeyfan228]

As for front loading, both Evgeni and Alexei are noted for that, however, the back loading is also important in CoP.

That would make CoP like 6.0 in the good old days, when programs had a slow section in the middle in which the skaters would skate around in circles, perform few elements, and catch their breath.

 

[Mathman]

....when programs had a slow section in the middle in which the skaters would skate around in circles, perform few elements, and catch their breath.

That's one of the things I miss about those old programs. The slow part (which skaters referred to as, "the slow part") gave music specialists and choreographers a chance to switch tempo and mood, and gave the skaters a chance to do some pure skating, a little edge work, maybe a spin or two. Now many of these points-driven programs are helter-skelter from beginning to end.

But, yes, there are still quite a few skaters who follow the tried and true pattern of jump, jump, jump, jump, r-r-e-e-s-s-t-t until the half-way mark, jump, jump, jump, jump, footwork, spin, ta-da!

 

[Mathman]

Just my opinon. I thought the rivalry between Alexei and Evgeni was as tense as any championship can get, and I enjoyed every minute of it. Didn't find anyone else that interesting. But if this were on a poll, I would vote for the Men's Final in Tokyo.

I completely agree. As much as we love our old favorites, that was then, this is now.

Same thing for those who hope Michelle and Sasha come back to give some oomph to U.S. ladies' skating. If something exciting is about to happen, it will be the new kids on the block that will lead the way.

Go Kimmie!

 

[tae04]

Let him return. I think figure skating is the only Olympic Sport that has these dumb eligibility rules, which I do not understand. I don't think the quad would even be an issue. Nobody is consistently doing it besides Joubert and Lambiel.
Besides the sport is dying, ratings are low, money is being lost, stars are fading. Things need to be changed from rules and the system.

How long has Cinquanta been president of the ISU? Do they have elections or he just stays president til he retires? I think figure skating deserves someone with actual skating knowledge and care for the sport to run figure skating. Cinquanta is very incompetent in my opinion.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Oh come on - i don't care for lysacek's skating but what you wrote in your post was that he now has a quad plus the statement above, which just to re-iterate says he has mental toughness and consistency.

So to recap, if a male skater has:

- a quad;
- consistency;
mental toughness.

That is not enough? What more do they need and which skaters do you think have more than this?

Ant

No that is not enough unless all the others top skaters fall on their butt a bunch of times. What more do you need, and who has more then that (eg-what he has):

-standout spins
-standout footwork
-standout choreography
-standout musical interpretation
-standout flow and style
-standout basic skating quality
-standout jump quality

Who has atleast 4 or 5 of the 7 where he has 0 of those 7 would be: Joubert, Lambiel, Takhashi, Oda, Buttle, Plushenko (if he returns), Weir. Oda, Buttle, Weir, dont really have quads, and dont really have jump consistency so that negates somewhat. However if you are asking for guys who have things other then that, and alot more of it then Evan does it is very easy to come up with alot of people, in fact it took me about 2 minutes to type this whole post, it was incredibly easy.

Except for his consistency, mental toughness, and being able to do a quad, he is just an average skater who relies on others splatting to win medals. Doing a quad does not set him apart in many way as the U.S media seems to think since many guys can do the quad.

 

[antmanb]

-standout spins
-standout footwork
-standout choreography
-standout musical interpretation
-standout flow and style
-standout basic skating quality
-standout jump quality

Who has atleast 4 or 5 of the 7 where he has 0 of those 7 would be: Joubert, Lambiel, Takhashi, Oda, Buttle, Plushenko (if he returns), Weir. Oda, Buttle, Weir, dont really have quads, and dont really have jump consistency so that negates somewhat.

Well the majority of things in your list come out of the PCS and Lysacek has done ok in that area. Looking at worlds Lambiel, Takahashi and Joubert were some 4-6 points ahead on PCS but he was in the same ball park as the rest on your list (bar pluschenko who obviously wasn't there).

As to standout spins and footwork - he was joint top in terms of levels achieve for spins and footwork with Lambiel with everyone else coming after that. So i think you're worng about spins and footwork.

As to jump quality - looking at the GOEs from worlds there isn't really anything in it particularly, some skaters had notable -GOEs on one bad element done (all skaters had this) and then some had notable +GOEs with the rest remaining fractions of 1.

Look at this list to see how the skaters you mentioned above (except obviously Pluschnko) did for levels of elements and PCS:

Takahashi
Levels: 4,3,3,3,3,3 PCS 76.92

Lambiel
Levels: 3,4,4,3,3,4 PCS 78.16

Joubert
Levels: 3,4,1,1,3,2 PCS 76.64

Verner
Levels: 4,3,3,4,3,3 PCS 72.50

Lysacek
Levels: 4,4,3,4,3,3 PCS 71.64

Oda
Levels: 4,4,2,3,3,4 PCS 68.14

Buttle
Levels: 3,2,3,4,3,3 PCS 73.20

Weir
Levels: 4,1,4,2,2,3 PCS 71.74

I think, of that list Joubert and Lambiel are the only ones that have had some element of consistency. Consistency has to be one of th ebiggest factors in terms of prediciotns of who will do well since if you just don't do the jumps then you can't win - see Weir, Buttle, Oda, Takahashi.

Ant