Will Zagitova return?

[zounger]

The Fed funding her - take the skater's name out of it. In my opinion Federation funding should be reserved for competing athletes and to an extent someone that was on team but got injured. Barring an injury if a skater decides to step away from competition then Fed funding should stop and those funds be diverted to an athlete that plans to compete that season. Any 'break' from competitions should be treated as a retirement until the skater competes again because there have been many skaters that taken a break from competing for whatever reason and then they never really compete again but they also don't really ever officially retire.

Ok, thanks for clarifying. Generally, I agree and don't have any objection for them to remove her. But I think we have very little to no information to actually talk about that subject so either we kind of speculate or saying something from a purely moral point of view: you don't skate give the money elsewhere. The reality I think is more complicated.

It can start from strict formality.
1. RusFed each year has the criteria to make the national reserve team and Alina meets them, end of the story.
2. The founding can be for example 15k $ but RsuFed currently makes out of Alina 50k $. So they keep her.
3. Sambo wants Alina to be in the team and they use the money for their purposes.
4. etc.

 

[Skatesocs]

Ok, thanks for clarifying. Generally, I agree and don't have any objection for them to remove her. But I think we have very little to no information to actually talk about that subject so either we kind of speculate or saying something from a purely moral point of view: you don't skate give the money elsewhere. The reality I think is more complicated.

It can start from strict formality.
1. RusFed each year has the criteria to make the national reserve team and Alina meets them, end of the story.
2. The founding can be for example 15k $ but RsuFed currently makes out of Alina 50k $. So they keep her.
3. Sambo wants Alina to be in the team and they use the money for their purposes.
4. etc.

I like that your posts tend to be well reasoned :agree:

 

[Kittosuni]

Yes funding in part is decided based on the previous season's results however I don't think there is an intention of providing funding to a skater who is potentially going to walk away from competing for the season funding especially when there is a field as deep as the Russian ladies. She took a 'break' from her competitive career at the GPF last season, how many other skaters have taken breaks that quietly turned into retirement without an official signed document that they were done competing?

As of right now it's looking more and more like Zagitova's not really interested or to continue competing at least this season - the director the Fed was the person that made the statement that she would decide after test skates if she's going to compete at the Russian Cup events which are the qualifiers for Nationals this year, this wasn't some made up rumor by some tabloid journalist. And now about a week before test skates it's announced that she's signed on to participate in a TV show which sounds like it's done during what will be the domestic season for figure skating. Look if she competes at the Russian Cup events to go to Nationals I've got no issue with her funding, but if she decides to forego competing this season I don't think she should be getting full funding, this isn't some slam to Zagitova I would be making this same comment for any skater on the main team that decided to just skip the competition season. It was said on this board that Shcherbakova's mother did an interview and said once Shcherbakova was on the national team everything training-wise was paid for and that's an amazing gift to get in an expensive sport and that money is getting taken by a skater that's potentially not going to compete this year and it's not a given that she's gonna come back the following season.

Yours and couple of posters' insinuation that Zagitova is somehow robbing someone a funding and a place in the national team is simply wrong.

Just want to correct you, past season's result is the MAIN criteria in deciding who makes the national team that is why Zagitova rightfully made the national team. Her TBD competition results or potential "Break" this season will determine her place on the National Team NEXT season.

If your "concern" is that Rusfed is somehow wasting money on her, don't be, because RusFed is equally making money off of her with the mandatory cuts they get from her sponsorship and other income.

If your "concern' is that somehow a poor, unknown skater is being robbed of a funding for not making the main team, don't be, the unknown skater simply did not show good results or enormous potential to warrant a place in the team for this year. However, your unknown skater has this year to get the results needed to make the national team.

So I repeat, based on the criteria alone she is deserving of the national team spot and yours and couple of posters' implication that Zagitova is somehow robbing someone a funding for a season that has not started yet and a place in the national team because she is taking a TBD break is simply wrong.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I think it's ok to say she earned her place on the national team while questioning whether she deserves funding for training when it seems like she's unlikely to compete. To me, they're different things, much like how we criticized Alyssa Czisny and others for going to Worlds injured even though they earned those spots fair and square.

 

[Kittosuni]

I think it's ok to say she earned her place on the national team while questioning whether she deserves funding for training when it seems like she's unlikely to compete. To me, they're different things, much like how we criticized Alyssa Czisny and others for going to Worlds injured even though they earned those spots fair and square.

Her getting the FUNDING is because of the results she EARNED the PAST season. That is LITERALLY the CRITERIA of the RUSFED who gets the funding.

The funding is not a gift, it is not a privilege but the results of BLOOD, SWEAT, HARD WORK and digging deep inside her to find the will to fight the adversities she was facing to EARN results that comes with the funding.

What ever she does THIS SEASON, she can take a break, get married, clown around THAT FUNDING IS ALREADY EARNED.

 

[Skatesocs]

Her getting the FUNDING is because of the results she EARNED the PAST season. That is LITERALLY the CRITERIA of the RUSFED who gets the funding.

The funding is not a gift, it is not a privilege but the results of blood, sweat and digging deep inside her to find the will to fight the adversities she was facing to EARN results that comes with the funding. What ever she does THIS SEASON, she can take a break, get married, clown around THAT FUNDING IS ALREADY EARNED.

What is so hard to understand??

Personally, I think some might not be aware of the rules, but even if they are, they are just debating the rule - that even if she earned it last season, if she doesn't compete, it should be transferred to someone else (especially in a field as stacked as Russia). Not that she's robbing someone.

I think there can be a well-reasoned argument either way, for example, like zounger gave one. It's not just about understanding the rules. I think it's been respectful so far, but could be that I've missed something.

 

[zounger]

CRITERIA

Selection of athletes for inclusion in the sports national figure skating team of the Russian Federation

1. Principles and criteria for the formation of the list of candidates for Russian national figure skating team. In accordance with the "General principles and criteria for the formation list of candidates ", approved by the Ministry of Sports of Russia in the composition candidates for the national figure skating team are included athletes, taking into account the level of achieved technical skill (performance results), age and promising opportunities. The main criteria for the inclusion of candidates in the national team of Russia are the results shown by athletes, for which in the competitions listed below, you must take the following places:

Worlds: 1-18

Europeans: 1-12

ISU GP stages: 1-8

Russian Nationals: 1-8

Russian Cup Final: 1-5

Source (its from December 29/2019 but I don't think anything significant changed) : https://fsrussia.ru/novosti-federat...ornoj-komandy-rossijskoj-federatsii-2020.html

So regarding Zagitova. Main criteria result wise has been hit. Level of achievement and technical skill are in place or remained to seen in test skates. Her age is fine. Promising opportunities let's say is open because we don't know if she will skate. So overall I think she hits all the criteria to make the team.

 

[Kittosuni]

Personally, I think some might not be aware of the rules, but even if they are, they are just debating the rule - that even if she earned it last season, if she doesn't compete, it should be transferred to someone else (especially in a field as stacked as Russia). Not that she's robbing someone.
.

Am i the only one who finds this absurb?

I am definitely not OK even for a debate that if my HARD EARNED MONEY from LAST SEASON is to be given out to someone who did not even earn it just because I decided to take a break this season. Are you for real?

So If you guys are good that this scenario is OK to be done to someone else, I assume it is ok if it is done to you? How about we test that scenario and venmo me your hard earned money from last month.

 

[icetug]

I don't understand the problem. Alina is not a first skater who got financing but doesn't compete. Surely, in her case it's not injury what is almost usual cause of having a break from competitions (and in that case nobody would discuss money). But have it in mind that IF she returns next season, she WON'T get ANY financing for her training, as according to the rules she won't be in the national team. Simple like that (casus: Kolyada).

 

[Skatesocs]

Am i the only one who finds this absurb?

I do not expect so. But I expect the validity of your stance is up for debate

I think the rules are clear - no one is debating those rules (ETA2: rather that she got money based off those rules, which is what I meant to say, otherwise it looks like I'm contradicting my previous post). The validity of those rules is being debated. That's all.

ETA: to clarify, Zagitova earned her money based off some rules - people familiar with those rules won't say that Zagitova hasn't earned her money. But they are debating if those rules are good.

 

[zounger]

I don't understand the problem. Alina is not a first skater who got financing but doesn't compete. Surely, in her case it's not injury what is almost usual cause of having a break from competitions (and in that case nobody would discuss money). But have it in mind that IF she returns next season, she WON'T get ANY financing for her training, as according to the rules she won't be in the national team. Simple like that (casus: Kolyada).

I don't think there is any problem, this most likely, even if Amei's and other's intentions to worry about the founding are genuine and I don't doubt it, come from specific centers that trying to find something negative towards Zagitova. If you exclude the 3A all the other members of the team had less or the same amount of competitions last season with worse results. So how can someone exclude her from the team? By saying that I think you will not compete so I will not include you?

 

[Kittosuni]

I do not expect so. But I expect the validity of your stance is up for debate

I think the rules are clear - no one is debating those rules. The validity of those rules is being debated. That's all.

ETA: to clarify, Zagitova earned her money based off some rules - people familiar with those rules won't debate that Zagitova hasn't earned her money. But they are debating if those rules are good.

Who in their right mind even ARGUES a RULE that says you have to show results, earn placements, be one of the best to earn your funding????

Who in their right mind even AGREES that it is OK to giveaway away your already earned funding from past season just because you decided to take a break this season???

I want to meet these people because I'm sure they are so OK of sending me their hard earned money from last month. :luv17:

 

[Skatesocs]

Who in their right mind even ARGUES a RULE that says you have to show results, earn placements, be one of the best to earn your funding????

Who in their right mind even AGREES that it is OK to giveaway away your already earned funding from past season just because you decided to take a break this season???

I want to meet these people because I'm sure they are so OK of sending me their hard earned money from last month. :luv17:

Hey man (girl?) I think Zounger made the most convincing argument so far, and he thinks Zagi should keep it. It's what I got out of the argument is all.

Personally I think Zagi should just become the richest skater ever though. It's cool that she's already got so many things under her belt, and she just turned 18!!!

 

[flanker]

Personally, I think some might not be aware of the rules, but even if they are, they are just debating the rule - that even if she earned it last season, if she doesn't compete, it should be transferred to someone else (especially in a field as stacked as Russia). Not that she's robbing someone.

I think there can be a well-reasoned argument either way, for example, like zounger gave one. It's not just about understanding the rules. I think it's been respectful so far, but could be that I've missed something.

Would like to have your optimism.

 

[Skatesocs]

Would like to have your optimism.

Haha, I don't know the history between the posters here, so again it's just what I got off the argument. I did add some clarifications in posts, I was being sloppy :dumb: I should scoot out of fan wars if that's what it is!

 

[zounger]

Let me be clear since I seem to have started the discussion: My comment would be the same for any skater on the national team getting funding. The funding for training provided by the Fed should be reserved for athletes dedicated to competing that season, many skaters take breaks and never return to competition. The current rule in my opinion is bad.

Another subject on the funding is how we imagine this funding. For me is not clear. Is it upfront 10k $ for the season and you can do it whatever you want with them? Or is bind to exchanges for new boots, choreographers, sports equipment, clothes, travel cost, medical expenses etc. Which you need receipts, paper to provide in order to get the money. If it's the second case then if you are injured rather than just having a break might be more cost consuming from the Fed perspective.

 

[Scott512]

Alina will skip the season. Disappointing but no surprise.

 

[zounger]

Kogan said she will be there for financial reasons. She will not skate.

Thank you. So no reason to really to get our hopes up for a return.....

To be fair to myself, I would like to apologize to norwegianfairytale, Fluture and other members of the forum because what I wrote back then didn't have any link on sports-express. But as you can see Kogan didn't "say" it back then but did it. I'm not Nostradamus, just RusFed is an open book to me.

 

[Azikin]

Alina will skip the season. Disappointing but no surprise.

Surely lowers the chances of her returning...

 

[Arbitrary]

To return Zagitova the RusFed needs 1st to eliminate the school of fry.

If ISU raises the age to 20+, Zag may revise.
If ISU decides to intro some kind of age categories, Zag may revise.
If specifically the OG Teams event being restricted for the min age to 20+, Zag may revise.

Who would watch those events is a big question.