2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[nussnacker]

Mariah's lutzes weren't called, yes, but you know whose was? Kaori's, Starr's, Wakaba's... etc. So no they weren't biased against the Russians, it seemed they were just blind with Mariah (yes she should be getting !'s)
Okay let's look at the scores from Zhenya's 2015-18 seasons.
Her highest scoring lutzes (I'm only doing international):
1. 2019 WC
2. 2017 WTT
3. 2018 OLY
4. 2019 Autumn Classic (but ! call)
5. 2017 WC
6. 2016 WC
7. 2015 GPRUS
8. 2017 GPRUS
9. 2016 EC
10. 2015 Ondrej Nepela

And then the ones that got called "e":
1. 2019 GPCAN
2. 2019 Shanghai Trophy
3. 2019 GPRUS
4. 2018 GPCAN
5. 2019 Autumn Classic
6. 2017 Ondrej Nepela

If you notice, besides 2 from post-Eteri, all of the high scoring lutzes were from Eteri time, while all of the ones rightfully called "e" were from post-Eteri (except for the one at Ondrej Nepela). A ! call still garnering + GOE when it should obviously be "e" with negative GOE is still an incorrect call.

She may have jumped it more, but that's not my point. I was predicting not by how many "e" calls, but the percentage of her lutzes being called (as I should be because I considered this fact).

Since I'm taking AP Stats in school and I find the subject itself very interesting why don't we calculate the percentage of her lutz being called "!", "e" or no call from 2015-16 to 2019-20?

1. 2015-16
   1. Number of lutzes attempted: 6
   2. Number of lutzes called "!": 1
   3. Number of lutzes called "e": 0
   4. Percentage of being called "!": 17%
   5. Percentage of being called "e": 0%
   6. Total percent called: 17%
2. 2016-17
   1. Number of lutzes attempted: 6
   2. Number of lutzes called "!": 3
   3. Number of lutzes called "e": 0
   4. Percentage of being called "!": 50%
   5. Percentage of being called "e": 0%
   6. Total percent called: 50%
3. 2017-18
   1. Number of lutzes attempted: 5
   2. Number of lutzes called "!": 1
   3. Number of lutzes called "e": 1
   4. Percentage of being called "!": 20%
   5. Percentage of being called "e": 20%
   6. Total percent called: 40%
4. 2018-19
   1. Number of lutzes attempted: 9
   2. Number of lutzes called "!": 5
   3. Number of lutzes called "e": 1
   4. Percentage of being called "!": 56%
   5. Percentage of being called "e": 11%
   6. Total percent called: 67%
5. 2019-20
   1. Number of lutzes attempted: 8
   2. Number of lutzes called "!": 4
   3. Number of lutzes called "e": 4
   4. Percentage of being called "!": 50%
   5. Percentage of being called "e": 50%
   6. Total percent called: 100%

I don't know about you but from an average of 36% to an average of 83.5%... that seems like quite the increase for me.
(But yes, Sasha's PCS were way over scored in the free, that I agree with. The chances of your lutz being called if you aren't with Eteri, well the stats are up there for you to see).

Well then we should consider that her lutz actually didn’t look as bad in 15-16 as it did later in her career, and they also used to hide it. In 19-20 not only did they not try to do the same, but by increasing the number of them, thus repeating a mistake a few times made it more noticeable to the judges, who could’ve ever thought? This mistake also became more well known later in her career as her fame level grew.

to be frank, the whole “Evgenia scores dropped because she left”, completely ignores a number of factors that caused her scores to drop: the spins which got worse and worse, the removal of most transitions, the programs that did not suit her at all, and she couldn’t physically perform to them, loss of consistency, which affected the judging. Yeah, scores dropped, but she also was doing worse. Some things improved, and some regressed a lot, and those things cost a lot of points. Judges just stopped seeing her as a top contender to keep inflating her scores. Considering a full picture makes things look different.

 

[plushyfan]

I think people are overthinking and sexualizing a dance move. Hip movements are present in many cultures and don't represent sexual movements. People thinking about it is what makes it sexual. I'm all in for dance representation, and hip movement is totally fine. I've been trained in ballet, ballroom dance and middle eastern dances. It offends me to see that people are so close-minded with dance expression. She was not twerking for God's sake.

it's interesting

 

[lopsilceci]

I think there's a lot of fuss being made about Sasha's hip shimmy, when it's just a common dance move and a very brief moment, no big deal. I thought it was funny when I saw her do it yesterday, but now I agree that it doesn't really fit the R&J theme or the music and Sasha does look a bit awkward doing it. Maybe they should take it out.

About improvements, I think her 4T3T combo does look more solid and clean, but after test skates and one competition, I wouldn't say that overall her consistency with jumps has increased. You can tell she's working on her performance skills and she'll still probably never match her top competitors in this aspect but that's okay. Generally, she's the same Sasha from one season ago, but that is normal considering she just changed coaches.

I disagree that her new programs are very different or more entertaining than the previous ones. Rozanov did the choreo after all and he comes from the same school and I really liked her older programs, they were unique and fun to watch with interesting concepts and they suited Sasha's style. I wouldn't mind it if some parts of her program look emptier, as long as that helps her land all her quads and focus on doing the rest of her elements cleanly. If she skates clean, I think that will still boost her PCS, even if she sacrifices some transitions and expressiveness.

I would love to know what kind of music Sasha would pick for herself if she were given full freedom to choose. I don't think I've ever seen her talk about music like what she listens to or what style she likes And she seems like the kind of skater who will skate to what the coaches tell her to without much objection.

 

[JazzUp]

Are you saying this is the ice version of Bejart?

No, I'm not - it's an hommage, of sorts, by Daniil.

Camila's program includes many movements of all parts of the body that occur at any time in her program, regardless of the music. Sometimes it gets into accents and rhythm, sometimes it doesn't.

Give her and TT time, it's still a bit raw, quite understandably, and with time it will turn into a masterpiece, like the Girl On a Ball.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I have seen many interpretations of Balero, from Bejart and others. There are also several versions of Balero on Ice. Are you saying this is the ice version of Bejart? Are you sure? Me not. All ballet versions are characterized by movement of the body, mainly the lower part, in a strictly monotonous rhythm of the music. The upper body, arms and head create an emotional color by following the amplitude and fullness of the music, creating the tension of the moment. It was at T&D. Camila's program includes many movements of all parts of the body that occur at any time in her program, regardless of the music. Sometimes it gets into accents and rhythm, sometimes it doesn't. In my eyes, this has nothing to do with the traditional ballet perception of Ravel's Balero. Maybe there are some modern interpretations of this that I have not seen. Or is it just a set of movements beautifully done on the ice by a beautiful girl?I have seen many interpretations of Balero, from Bejart and others. There are also several versions of Balero on Ice. Are you saying this is the ice version of Bejart? Are you sure? Me not. All ballet versions are characterized by movement of the body, mainly the lower part, in a strictly monotonous rhythm of the music. The upper body, arms and head create an emotional color by following the amplitude and fullness of the music, creating the tension of the moment. It was at T&D. Camila's program includes many movements of all parts of the body that occur at any time in her program, regardless of the music. Sometimes it gets into accents and rhythm, sometimes it doesn't. In my eyes, this has nothing to do with the traditional ballet perception of Ravel's Balero. Maybe there are some modern interpretations of this that I have not seen. Or is it just a set of movements beautifully done on the ice by a beautiful girl?

Nobody is asking from skaters that their interpretation should be a replica of well-known something, actually originality is one of the five criteria for the composition mark. And if everyone interpret one music piece always the same way- with the same skating patterns and body movements, they will never get points for originality of the COmposition. And what is more important, the whole figure skating competition would be boring to watch for the general public (as compulsory dance was, for example).

 

[silveruskate]

Generally Eteri skaters are given lenience with edges and PCS, but it doesn't mean just Eteri skaters are afforded this. Clearly RusFed tries to "back" skaters like backing horses. And Eteri skaters in recent times are the horses to back. If they give their top prospects edge calls and reduced PCS then this will translate internationally too. The ISU did this generally too to a lesser extent (not calling flutzes of top skaters including Medvedeva, until the season after the Olympic season).

In this competition Daria was not backed at all like Valieva was. Both are Eteri skaters, but only one of them is their Olympic prospect. Kamila was the darling of that competition. Daria was given the normal PCS boost expected, which was still less than a 2nd year senior like Trusova despite better PCS skills than her. When Trusova has constantly been given hugely inflated PCS in the past (34.83 in RusNats), what can they do? Now that she has visibly improved it would be so awkward to give her lower PCS. But they still want to show Valieva as better than Sasha in PCS.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

are there reliable sites with these statistics? i.e. protocol aggregators?

I like to use skating scores: https://skatingscores.com (it does a good job of showing trends/overall lists/averages etc, you can also create your own protocols).

 

[Edwin]

I like to use skating scores: https://skatingscores.com (it does a good job of showing trends/overall lists/averages etc, you can also create your own protocols).

Thanks for the link. Statistics can tell a lot and are more objective. National Bias Chart, LOL.

 

[Skatesocs]

Hip movements are present in many cultures and don't represent sexual movements. People thinking about it is what makes it sexual.

They are present in several other cultures and dance forms, and can represent sexual movements. Further, I am sure people can look at the choreography and decide for themselves why such a movement has been placed there, what it looks like, so on and so forth. Funny to see the suggestion that hip movements don't necessarily represent sexuality, so intent no longer matters.

It offends me to see that people are so close-minded with dance expression.

And it offends me that people make such generalising statements about any art or its reception.

 

[bubblecherry]

to be frank, the whole “Evgenia scores dropped because she left”, completely ignores a number of factors that caused her scores to drop: the spins which got worse and worse, the removal of most transitions, the programs that did not suit her at all, and she couldn’t physically perform to them, loss of consistency, which affected the judging. Yeah, scores dropped, but she also was doing worse. Some things improved, and some regressed a lot, and those things cost a lot of points. Judges just stopped seeing her as a top contender to keep inflating her scores. Considering a full picture makes things look different.

I have no interest in getting into this argument. However, I would like to point out ‘removal of most transitions’ has not been an accurate assessment since, perhaps, the first version of her Tango. All of her programs had transitions in and/or out of almost every jump and element. Tosca had some beautiful entries and exits. MOAG in particular had a lot of new and fresh transitions, not only for Zhenya, but just ones we don’t see often in general.

 

[trkvy]

Not being with Eteri anymore is what made her flip being called. She already lipped with Eteri. Go do your research.

With Eteri flip edge was hardly ever flat, now it's clearly wrong. Go do your research yourself.

 

[Alex65]

Nobody is asking from skaters that their interpretation should be a replica of well-known something, actually originality is one of the five criteria for the composition mark. And if everyone interpret one music piece always the same way- with the same skating patterns and body movements, they will never get points for originality of the COmposition. And what is more important, the whole figure skating competition would be boring to watch for the general public (as compulsory dance was, for example).

So who does she want to be here after all?

 

[Alex65]

Give her and TT time, it's still a bit raw, quite understandably, and with time it will turn into a masterpiece, like the Girl On a Ball.

Why don't you also think that Sasha's programs are still far from perfect? Give her time

 

[Alex65]

With Eteri flip edge was hardly ever flat, now it's clearly wrong. Go do your research yourself.

What does it mean? Is it time for Sasha to retire? Eteri ruined Sasha's edge when she was about to leave? What evil Eteri!

 

[Edwin]

Liza Berestovskaya, who is very talkative and also quite active on social media told Olga Yermolina today:

"I skated well today, but you can always do better. More speed, even more confidence in doing everything so that there will be more pluses, so I will not receive 7.25, but eights. But this skating run is already better than at the Moscow Championship, although there is always something to strive for. The sequence can be upgraded to the fourth level, more working with my torso. That is, you need to fully skate out your program.

I really like the program. It was staged by my choreographer Victoryia Leonidovna Bondarenko. I once had a "special sequence" - "February", and we wanted to stage a similar program. My coach Sergey Dmitriyevich (Davydov) found interesting music, his treatment of The Nutcracker is very beautiful. They began to stage and immediately came up with a story: about New Year's Eve, when miracles happen; I portray a doll that turns into a ballerina. But the story doesn't end there. Me, a ballerina, begins to "fall apart", a transformation takes place, and I become a witch. Is it really exciting, isn't it?

We sewed a costume for this program in Voronezh. I arrived in Moscow from Voronezh four years ago. We have a very good dressmaker there who has been making me dresses for performances since I was 6 years old. My mother and I came to her, gave her the music to listen, and together we came up with a story and an image. Then we consulted with the coaches, they approved. And so it was done.

First, they brought me a dress that was not quite finished. Without a "tutu", but then they finished everything. We thought about when it would be better to unfasten part of the dress (you saw it in the program), Because it is heavy, there are a lot of rhinestones, and because of this, jumps began to turn out messy. We decided not to interfere with this part, first I jump off everything, and then I unfastened it in when I was going into my sequence. That's how we left it.

I especially like the image of the witch. Insidious, cunning. But my own character is completely different. Kind, I love animals very much. Maybe that's why I am attracted to act out these characters in my program."

I very much hope for a likewise interview with Sof'ya Muravyova.

From: https://fsrussia.ru/news/5152-eliza...chshe-chem-na-otkrytom-pervenstve-moskvy.html

 

[JazzUp]

Why don't you also think that Sasha's programs are still far from perfect? Give her time

a) I haven't commented on Sasha's programmes here yet, so are you a mind reader, by any chance?
b) Sasha definitely can improve, she's tenacious, but based on experience (TT's & Plyushenko's), I think we can expect more from Kamila in the way of improvement

 

[Jontor]

Sasha's Flip always had the tendency to be outside. There are enough clips of her Flip from last season where she had an outside edge or flat edge. Next, please. So now we have covered Stsq, Spins, 3Lz+3Lo and Flip. What else do you want me to refute?
I have time and the protocols ready can even provide video footage.

By the way, a quick statistic from last season:

Out of 12 StSqs performed last season Anna had 6 Level 3s, 1 Level 2 and 5 Level 4s.
Out of 13 Stqs performed last season Sasha had 6 Level 3s, 1 Level 2 and 6 Level 4s.

But Sasha's Level 3 StSq at RC is somehow only Plushenko's fault? I can also provide you with the number of amounts that Sasha and Anna got Level 3s on their spins last season

This was a great example Luna. A lot of "facts" around here are not backed up with numbers which makes them just personal subjective opinions, not facts.. People tend to forget that figure skating is a numbers game, and the ones that get the job done with the highest number wins.

 

[Alex65]

a) I haven't commented on Sasha's programmes here yet, so are you a mind reader, by any chance?
b) Sasha definitely can improve, she's tenacious, but based on experience (TT's & Plyushenko's), I think we can expect more from Kamila in the way of improvement

Don't you think it's ridiculous to rely on Plushenko's experience? He has never had figure skaters of the level of Sasha and Alena. We may well be surprised. I hope so. You just have to wait and see.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

So who does she want to be here after all?

You mean in a Bolero programme - like i told you, that question is not the point, but if you really want to know, is it on you to decide - the performer represents what the observer thinks it represents. And if you are not an imaginative person, you can find hints on her which can maybe help you

 

[Alex65]

You mean in a Bolero programme - well, that is on you to decide - the performer represents what the observer thinks it represents. And if you are not an imaginative person, you can find hints on her which can maybe help you

I want a hint right now. You've probably seen Camila's performance. What is it for you?