2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[SnowWhite]

So Rusnats. I im fairly sure that all National team members will get a bye to Nationals despite missing Russian Cup events. That means:

Trusova (1st in russian cup)
Shebrakova (2nd in russian cup)
Kostornaia (12th despite only skating 1 event)
Tuktamysheva (15th despite only skating 1 event)
Gulyakova (19th despite only skating 1 event)
Medveda (no event injured and sick possibly Covid related)
Sinitsyna (Injured and skick verry little information)
Zagitova (Shows no intention of competing this season)

I Assume the first 5 Im sure will participate if they are healthy. Zagitova probably not and Medvedeva and Sinitsyna is anyones guess. That means 13-15 spots left. And here we have
3rd Valieva
4th Usasheva
5th Frolova
6th Kromykh
7th Samodurova
8th Tsibinova
9th Tarakanova
10th Nugomanova
11th Talalykina
13th Shulskaya
14th Molchanova
16th Konstantinova
17th Kostina
--- 13 skaters that are more or less guaranteed to qualify
18th Onishenko
20th Sultanmagomedova
-- Skaters probably likely to qualify or maybe get subbed in as alternates
21th Okladnikova, K
22nd Okladnikova, D
23rd Parinova
24th Andreeva

So due to all the withdrawals Konstantinova makes it. The only one not qualified who I feel should be there is Sultanmagomedova who withdrew from this competition but maybe she will get a chance Onishenko is before her in the standings but with scores in the 150s compared to her 170s so in true RusFed style I would not be surprised if she is considered 1st alternate

If we're saying the first 5 are likely to participate, that leaves a max of 13 spots (18-5). So rather 11-13 spots left, not 13-15.

 

[silveruskate]

Wonderful competition, I'm happy for Kamila. Jumps were good, Lutz nerves but I don't think it's lasting. The performances themselves were flat for me compared to test skates and Stage 2.

For Bolero, I actually like the other dress much more. But I wasn't one of the ones complaining about it. There was something boring about it today. Her hand movements are normally so fluid but it was all stiffer to me. Even that hip movement was performed much better at Stage 2.

Performing in competition without an audience + lack of pressure might be awkward so I'm sure it should be way better at Nationals

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Unless there is something that gives instant -5 to Kamila , I think -1 is perfectly fine. It's not just the air position, how about effortless throughout, IMO good height and lenght. It is also remarkable how some people remain silent when a particular skater gets even positive GOE for a step-out, while they immediately rush to complain about other skater, who got negative GOE, though "we like her but..."
(And I see I'm not the only one who noticed that.)

First of all, positive GOE on a step-out is pretty rare and I don’t recall having seen it yet. And different cases warrant different scores. The height and distance of the 3A wasn’t super apparent but I suppose you could argue for that but I don’t think it was very effortless. The 3F was quite obviously very tiny, with barely any height. Just because other skaters get positive GOE on a step-out doesn’t mean Kamila getting 0 makes sense.

 

[flanker]

Rus fed seems to be putting all their eggs into the Kamila 2022 olympic champion basket and its hard to argue to against that because she's hardest to nitpick of all the russian girls. Alexandra - will only work if she lands most of her quads and her pcs can be easily hammered. Alena - no 3a currently, tech on the same level as non russians. Anna - you would think Eteri would try to push Anna image a bit more, though I guess people can attack her for her lutz edges.
Kamila has the pcs and the 2 quads and she's probably going to do 3 3a if its consistent enough. Of course personally I dont think she is flawless like the Russian fed are trying to push and I have a bad feeling that all this pressure is going to end badly come 2022.

How exactly it should be done this "pushing Anna's image"? She won her two stages by a margin, she unfortunately missed Rostelecom because of illness. Should Eteri push Anna's images while recovering?

The truly important task for Eteri is to prepare Anna for nationals if there's enough time, not "pushig her image". After all, the image thing comes from the results with Kamila and other skaters in the first place.

 

[Novalis]

First of all, positive GOE on a step-out is pretty rare and I don’t recall having seen it yet. And different cases warrant different scores. The height and distance of the 3A wasn’t super apparent but I suppose you could argue for that but I don’t think it was very effortless. The 3F was quite obviously very tiny, with barely any height. Just because other skaters get positive GOE on a step-out doesn’t mean Kamila getting 0 makes sense.

You do realize that even if the judges did it exactly your way, you're debating of a half a point or something. Isn't that a bit of a waste of time?

And the 3F is fine and solid. Especially in the short when everything around it is fine choreo

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

All these would and should but ignoring the fact Kostornaia can't even consistently hit her spin and step sequences levels these days and no she doesn't have nor had a better step sequence than Kamila. She can't even match Zagitova in that aspect much less Medvedeva in her prime. Kihira is barely above Zagitova's SP program without 2A. What makes you think judges aren't going to give Valieva the points to go over her score? Kihira has never had wow factor IMO. She is the type of skater who is only memorable when they do a clean program. Miyahara could UR and pop and she'd still look good. I remember people said Kihira was going to be better than Mao both artistically and in achievements. That is not going to happen.

Kamila's detractors it seems are already busying themselves with scenarios that are getting slimmer by the day. Her rivals should be putting out maximum performances and giving a good account of themselves instead of relying on reputation and historical ability. We need to see their level now so we can put them in their pecking order. Kostornaya it seems has already found hers.

All of Alyona’s step sequences (including her SP this year and excluding her FS this year) have been better than Kamila’s. They match the music, are performed with better speed and flow, and cover more ice. In addition, not only are they performed with patience and good posture, they feature extremely difficult and/or unique positions and are often the highlight of her programs. Especially the Adios Nonino one. That step sequence can go on a best of all time list. Alyona’s step sequences are the best to come out of Eteri camp, up there with Zhenya’s best and Alina’s best. And I never said Rika was a better skater artistically (though I do think she is). I know people think she’s boring but that doesn’t mean she doesn’t have excellent jumps, spins, steps and skating skills. And what kind scenarios am I giving? I’m just listing out aspects of skating and saying who is, from past competitions, better at one particular aspect.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

You do realize that even if the judges did it exactly your way, you're debating of a half a point or something. Isn't that a bit of a waste of time?

And the 3F is fine and solid. Especially in the short when everything around it is fine choreo.

Yeah the jumps are fine just the GOE is questionable at times. My main issue is the PCS, namely skating skills. If you saw my first post, that was where I deducted the most points and yet those arguing against me blatantly left out that argument in their rebuttals. All things added up her score would have been around 1 or 2 points lower, which makes more sense to me.

 

[renebaebae]

Kamila getting a >74 pcs for that performance was really a choice.

Tarakanova's FS is really nice! The step sequence is so so good. I don't think she performs it to its maximum yet but I hope she does at nationals!

 

[flanker]

First of all, positive GOE on a step-out is pretty rare and I don’t recall having seen it yet. And different cases warrant different scores. The height and distance of the 3A wasn’t super apparent but I suppose you could argue for that but I don’t think it was very effortless. The 3F was quite obviously very tiny, with barely any height. Just because other skaters get positive GOE on a step-out doesn’t mean Kamila getting 0 makes sense.

Is it even possible that you missed it? To be honest, I don't believe that

Kamila receiving -1 and even 0 for that particular landing makes sense relatively to other scoring in the series of russian cup stages and other events, for instance if we ommit the case that was the point here, e.g. Nathan Chen also received positive GOE at Skate America, just one of the other cases.

Though, the point here is not "if some skaters were judged incorrectly, other skaters can be judged incorrectly as well." The point is that once again the level of white noise that is shown here for a jump that actually truly received negative GOE is completely out of the place and IMO the problem still lies elsewhere that can be shown on the supposed ignorance and silence when there are those other cases. But when it comes to particular skaters, the talk is always the same. I'll borrow the words from other user here, I hope he won't object, it's just that I wouldn't formulate it better:

Nitpicky criticism about every little thing in the universe. Blown way out of proportion.

For the end, I wonder why on one hand people so often remind that scores shouldn't be compared across the competitions, while they immediately do that for some reason.

 

[Scott512]

Nice job by KV. Stage 5 was a weak competition overall and she would probably face similarr competition at Junior Nationals.

Unfortunately coronavirus turned this into a lackluster event when we knew who is going to win. Russian Nationals will be a much different animal for Kamila. Whatever happens there the experiences should propel her forward big time.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Is it even possible that you missed it? To be honest, I don't believe that

Kamila receiving -1 and even 0 for that particular landing makes sense relatively to other scoring in the series of russian cup stages and other events, for instance if we ommit the case that was the point here, e.g. Nathan Chen also received positive GOE at Skate America, just one of the other cases.

Though, the point here is not "if some skaters were judged incorrectly, other skaters can be judged incorrectly as well." The point is that once again the level of white noise that is shown here for a jump that actually truly received negative GOE is completely out of the place and IMO the problem still lies elsewhere that can be shown on the supposed ignorance and silence when there are those other cases. But when it comes to particular skaters, the talk is always the same. I'll borrow the words from other user here, I hope he won't object, it's just that I wouldn't formulate it better:

Nitpicky criticism about every little thing in the universe. Blown way out of proportion.

For the end, I wonder why on one hand people so often remind that scores shouldn't be compared across the competitions, while they immediately do that for some reason.

Ah well, I don't really follow Nathan so I don't know about that case. Second, I'm not saying her getting 0 GOE on the 3A is a crime punishable by death, I'm simply stating, I don't agree with that and if it were up to me, I would have scored it differently. It is one factor that would impact her score right? And if it were up to me that element would have scored differently and thus her entire program score would have been lower. And did I compare scores across competitions because I don't recall that? You obviously shouldn't, sorry if I did. And besides it's simply because I felt like Kamila's score was too high and thus I wanted to see what I would have done differently. Now if this were, say, Liza Nugumanova, and she for some reason got a positive GOE on a step-out but her score was still like 64, I wouldn't look into that because the score itself made sense to me (I mean it obviously doesn't because the PCS should pull her scores up much higher but that won't happen and it's a completely different argument).

 

[Paulipau]

All of Alyona’s step sequences (including her SP this year and excluding her FS this year) have been better than Kamila’s. They match the music, are performed with better speed and flow, and cover more ice. In addition, not only are they performed with patience and good posture, they feature extremely difficult and/or unique positions and are often the highlight of her programs. Especially the Adios Nonino one. That step sequence can go on a best of all time list. Alyona’s step sequences are the best to come out of Eteri camp, up there with Zhenya’s best and Alina’s best. And I never said Rika was a better skater artistically (though I do think she is). I know people think she’s boring but that doesn’t mean she doesn’t have excellent jumps, spins, steps and skating skills. And what kind scenarios am I giving? I’m just listing out aspects of skating and saying who is, from past competitions, better at one particular aspect.

In general I'm having issues understanding why so many people would prefer Kamila over Alyona when it somes to PCS. I think they come very close to each other in terms of musicality, but I think that Alyona can really sell anything, when Kamila is only selling me those soft lyrical programs.

Kamila’s lines are indeed beautiful and balletic, but it is mostly due to her very long limbs (I think they are giving her longer dresses to even it up a little). However she is missing some kind of "power" and flow in my opinion, and Alyona’s step sequences are simply better.

Another point is that Valievas jumps are not so pretty, are they? I mean quads are great when jumped alone but her 3-3?
Seems very messy, she moves weirdly betwen the jumps and they seem to be flowless as well.

Besides she is a junior, she will get through puberty soon. I think that it is simply too soon to name her Olimpic champion already, and this is that Rusfed seems to be doing.

I loved her "storm" sp yesterday, but comparing with Alyonas "adios nonino" you get a clear picture of which one of them is a better, more artistic skater.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Skating otherwise but seeing four Russian adults all wearing their mask over their nose??? In one room? Amazing! (Say what you want about Team Tutberidze but at least they aren't treating a global pandemic like a joke, or at least pretending like they don't, which is a lot more than I can say about the other coaches).

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

In general I'm having issues understanding why so many people would prefer Kamila over Alyona when it somes to PCS. I think they come very close to each other in terms of musicality, but I think that Alyona can really sell anything, when Kamila is only selling me those soft lyrical programs.

Kamila’s lines are indeed beautiful and balletic, but it is mostly due to her very long limbs (I think they are giving her longer dresses to even it up a little). However she is missing some kind of "power" and flow in my opinion, and Alyona’s step sequences are simply better.

Another point is that Valievas jumps are not so pretty, are they? I mean quads are great when jumped alone but her 3-3?
Seems very messy, she moves weirdly betwen the jumps and they seem to be flowless as well.

Besides she is a junior, she will get through puberty soon. I think that it is simply too soon to name her Olimpic champion already, and this is that Rusfed seems to be doing.

I loved her "storm" sp yesterday, but comparing with Alyonas "adios nonino" you get a clear picture of which one of them is a better, more artistic skater.

Probably a radical opinion, but yes I agree!
I think Kamila just doesn't do nearly as well with selling a program. Even comparing her to Anna. I don't like either Bolero or The Firebird, but Anna sells her FS so well that I do enjoy watching it. But Kamila isn't selling her FS nearly as well, and thus the only expression I have (besides happiness at her landing quads) is confusion at who thought this would be a good program. Like Anna and Alyona can turn a mediocre program into a gorgeous one, and I have not been able to see Kamila do that nearly as well. BUT, she is the most full package junior, and thus it doesn't really matter since she has the quad consistency, the difficulty, the spins and the artistry.

 

[[email protected]]

Nitpicky criticism about every little thing in the universe. Blown way out of proportion.

Many nitpicking critics in this thread were very enthusiastic in their assessment of NHK. As for me the Japanese skaters are seriously lagging behind. One landed URed 3A by Wakaba and a couple of unsuccessful attempts. Outside Rika last season there is no track record of landed ultra-si jumps including domestic competitions.

NHK's FS BV of Kaori is 62 vs. Kamilla's 70 today. This is a very big difference. And she will likely introduce 3A in the free program instead of 2A pushing BV further 4.7 points up. The BV difference with Kaori will be more than 12 points after that. And Kamilla is much better spinner to command superior GOE at least for spins.

So what do we have then? Oh, yes, those "magical skating skills" where Japanese ladies are supposedly much better than the Russians. When there are no quads, what is left but referring to skating skills?

 

[silveruskate]

All of Alyona’s step sequences (including her SP this year and excluding her FS this year) have been better than Kamila’s. They match the music, are performed with better speed and flow, and cover more ice. In addition, not only are they performed with patience and good posture, they feature extremely difficult and/or unique positions and are often the highlight of her programs. Especially the Adios Nonino one. That step sequence can go on a best of all time list. Alyona’s step sequences are the best to come out of Eteri camp, up there with Zhenya’s best and Alina’s best. And I never said Rika was a better skater artistically (though I do think she is). I know people think she’s boring but that doesn’t mean she doesn’t have excellent jumps, spins, steps and skating skills. And what kind scenarios am I giving? I’m just listing out aspects of skating and saying who is, from past competitions, better at one particular aspect.

Didn't you know, Aliona is just the worst of the worst nowadays.

I like them, but it isn't even like Alina and Evgenia are step-sequence queens either.

 

[Novalis]

In general I'm having issues understanding why so many people would prefer Kamila over Alyona when it somes to PCS. I think they come very close to each other in terms of musicality, but I think that Alyona can really sell anything, when Kamila is only selling me those soft lyrical programs.

Kamila’s lines are indeed beautiful and balletic, but it is mostly due to her very long limbs (I think they are giving her longer dresses to even it up a little). However she is missing some kind of "power" and flow in my opinion, and Alyona’s step sequences are simply better.

Another point is that Valievas jumps are not so pretty, are they? I mean quads are great when jumped alone but her 3-3?
Seems very messy, she moves weirdly betwen the jumps and they seem to be flowless as well.

Besides she is a junior, she will get through puberty soon. I think that it is simply too soon to name her Olimpic champion already, and this is that Rusfed seems to be doing.

I loved her "storm" sp yesterday, but comparing with Alyonas "adios nonino" you get a clear picture of which one of them is a better, more artistic skater.

To me Storm is actually more artistic than Adios nonino. I don't see Alyona as particularly "artistic", but she is a very good skater, that's why her performances look so nice. Kamila is a much better spinner, which is also a nice bonus.

 

[Jontor]

If we're saying the first 5 are likely to participate, that leaves a max of 13 spots (18-5). So rather 11-13 spots left, not 13-15.

Yes. If all five from the National Team get a free ticket to Nationals, then Konstantinova and Kostina are out.
And Kostina actually beat Konstantinova so she will be the first runner up and Konstantinova 2nd.
But I doubt that Medvedeva and Sinitsyna will show up at Nationals so K+K will both probably qualify anyway.

 

[Paulipau]

Didn't you know, Aliona is just the worst of the worst nowadays.

I like them, but it isn't even like Alina and Evgenia are step-sequence queens either.

It is true, she is not doing so well now. But it is a difficult season, I think that she just simply didnt have enough time and didn't get her programs choreographed soon enough. I dont see why it would disregard everything she did for the past 2 seasons.

I remember that after test skates everybody was writing about Tukatyshevas under rotations and losing levels on spins and steps. And one week ago the girl was on fire with perfect technique and all levels in place.

Skaters are people.

 

[Paulipau]

To me Storm is actually more artistic than Adios nonino. I don't see Alyona as particularly "artistic", but she is a very good skater, that's why her performances look so nice. Kamila is a much better spinner, which is also a nice bonus.

I don't think that Kamila is a better spinner than Alyona was her age.