I see it more as Valieva is joining the Trusova/Shcherbakova/Kostornaia epoch.
2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
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- Apr 17, 2018
Is Kamila adding rippons a good idea though? Her rippon quad at Rostelecom was gorgeous, but from the ones we saw today: +2 (good air position and good height and distance) but also -1 for weak landing, making it only +1. If it were just a normal quad it would be (+1 for effortless, +1 for good height and distance and +1 for good take-off and landing) so +3, and honestly I might even give the good air position bullet too making it +4. I don't think the rippons are necessary to get her to a +4.
Top Russian Scores this season for probable National qualifiers (RUS Cup and GP)
LADIES
Kamila Valieva 254
Alexandra Trusova 248
Anna Shcherbakova 246
Daria Usacheva 233
Alena Kostornaia 226
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva 223
Maia Khromykh 212
Anna Frolova 206
Anastasia Gulyakova 199
Ksenia Tsibinova 198
Sofia Samodurova 197
Anastasia Tarakanova 195
Elizaveta Nugumanova 191
Valeria Shulskaya 189
Maria Talalaykina 180
Stanislava Molchanova 171
No Score: Medvedeva, Sinitsina
(Alt: Kostina 172, Konstantinova 196)
LADIES
Kamila Valieva 254
Alexandra Trusova 248
Anna Shcherbakova 246
Daria Usacheva 233
Alena Kostornaia 226
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva 223
Maia Khromykh 212
Anna Frolova 206
Anastasia Gulyakova 199
Ksenia Tsibinova 198
Sofia Samodurova 197
Anastasia Tarakanova 195
Elizaveta Nugumanova 191
Valeria Shulskaya 189
Maria Talalaykina 180
Stanislava Molchanova 171
No Score: Medvedeva, Sinitsina
(Alt: Kostina 172, Konstantinova 196)
I read somewhere that in some cases rippons are used to stabilize the axis of the jump... could it be the reason why they are using it with the quad and not hitting the bullets? Or maybe she is more used to jumping with rippons than without and she is more comfortable with them? Maybe someone with actual knowledge of jumping physics can give us a better explanation. The rippon 3A in the warm up was amazing though!
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- Jan 25, 2013
I think the Rippons are necessary in that they always add to the GOE of the jump, even in the event of an error. Particularly on her higher value jumps they make more sense.
While I am incredibly impressed with Valieva's rippon 3A and 4T, there is still a lot of work to be done. The flip edge might get dinged, and I find some of her jump landings to be back on the heel a lot, which could get problematic later on. There's a frenetic aspect to her jumping and even movements which makes it look a little uncontrolled at times. There are some sloppy aspects to her in-between skating, and I hope that ridiculous PCS for her (even for Russia Cup) doesn't go to anyone's head, let alone hers. Sorry, but that Bolero choreo was just so contrived, and the movements are so rushed and unrefined - that type of music requires a level of sophistication that she simply does not have yet, and while she was the technical class of the field, that wasn't 9's-worthy in my books, let alone mid-8's.
She definitely has good sense of musicality and gorgeous extension, but doesn't always take the time to show it off in her transitions - it seems like she is going through choreographic movements instead of performing -- definitely needs to project more. And part of that is because some of her choreo is so jam-packed (true to many Eteri programs) and could use better editing. People go gaga over her spins (and rightfully so, some of the positions are gorgeous, as well as some of the transitions going into the spins are the hardest out there), but she needs to center them more. Her candle position is amazing but the sideways leaning position to start her layback spin is just plain mediocre and makes no sense given the flexibility and extension she exhibits elsewhere (like her ending pose clearly shows she has a flexible back but there's none of that in the initial position). Her forward split position is jaw dropping but the spin slows down and she doesn't "complete" the spin.
Not trying to come for her, but these are all things she needs to work on and some people are acting like she's already the full package. But, man, there is so much potential with her.
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- Feb 10, 2018
I don't think so. I hope that people here can agree at least on that the potential of those skaters is very high and equal to some way. They have the hardest technical content ever, which also means that one serious mistake can be decisive. All of them have shown high quality skates and skates significantly below their level (still above the level of 99 % of the other skaters). In the competition between them it will depend on their actual form, preparation, nerves and determination.
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- Mar 26, 2014
6 years ago there were a lot of comments about Sima's "ugly soft knee". I was not a contributor to those but I myself never thought of a soft knee as a manifestation of good skating skills. Quite the opposite in fact - it does not look aestetically pleasing to me. The worst case was not with the Japanese ladies but with a famous Canadian pair skater. Her knee was so "soft" that sometimes her landings looked like last second saves. Is there a bullet for soft knee at landing or some fans have decided that soft knee equals to better skating skills?
As for the rest, we could argue about flow, lovely programs, etc. It is a matter of taste. But we have some objective cases as well - Alina's showing the mastery of edges during some show in Japan, for example. Gaining speed with crossovers is different from gaining speed with all crazy transitions that Russian skaters have. So one should compare apples with apples. Etc, etc.
What is important for me is the style, the presence, the charisma. I see much more of it with the Russian skaters. I prefer beautiful arms, grace, crazy well-centered spins, I prefer telling stories on ice vs. skating from one element to another. Grace? Yes, Marin Honda, Satoko. But their jumps are not good.
Well, let's agree to disagree. PCS tell the story. And I don't see any major advantage for the Japanese skaters there. So that one could try to convince oneself and share with like-minded folks here that Japanes skaters are fundamentally much stronger than the Russians in skating skills. And it's all about "Fed's politicking", "Eteri's bonus", and other unfair things. But there are others who would shrug off those allegations and do it sincerely with the open heart. The best programs of Yulia, Zhenya, Alina, Alyona, and now Kamila moved me, sometimes even to tears. If they had poor skating skills it would hardly happen.
I did not go for arguments in the "Japanese threads" when folks kept saying how much better skaters the Japnese were. But here I will say firmly: "I don't think so".
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- Mar 26, 2014
It's plain as day just to you. Luckily you are just some random fan.
You'd have to name that woman, but I don't think you're thinking of a "soft knee". When someone is close to losing a landing, a deep knee bend that a skater actually knows how to use can be helpful, because, for one, they'd get their centre of mass closer to the ice.
A "soft knee" is useful to control your edges more effectively. Multidirectional skating, rhythmic knee action, so on.
You are right and I forgot how to do basic math
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- Mar 26, 2014
I would not say so.
Anna had a sickness related setback. But she is already on ice. And she started the season quite strongly with a stable 4F and something like about 50% success rate on 4Lz during practice. Her 4Lz was quite reliable last season when it mattered. If she brings it back with 3 top quads she is the threat to anyone.
Sasha is Sasha. I am sure she will give her all to prove everyone that she is the boss. Her target is 3A and at least 2 landed quads. She can make it.
Alyona is the biggest "IF". If she brings back her mind-boggling 3A and if she overcomes her puberty related issues, the quadsters have to be clean. Otherwise she will beat them with GOE and PCS like she did before. But I don't know whether this "IF" is going to happen - her first 2 performances were not up to her usual standards.
Finally, if we take Kamila's progress as given and it means adding 3A to the free program and another quad later on, yes, she looks like the main OGM contender. But this progress is not given - puberty, sickness, injury - anything can happen. And even then it's all about the skate of your life when it matters most. It's about doing 3Lz-3Lo at the second pass when you failed the first one.
And other than Kamila I don't see who can challenge 3A. My "educated guess" is that Olympic team will be "Valieva-Trusova-Scherbakova". But is also possible that none of them will make it.
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- Mar 26, 2014
Her former partner wrote music that Kamila skates to. I replied to the notion of soft knee during landings which for me is essentially the same as the deep knee bend. The words that I replied to were: "the knee bend landing position".
Most of Japanese lady skaters do it and it looks exactly as "getting their centre of mass closer to the ice" rather than the manifstation of superb skating skills. For one thing, I never saw the same deep knee bend with Patrick Chan who arguably has the best skating skills of them all.
About Kamilla. She has great interpretation and skating on level with Anna and Aliona and I think her short is probably my favorite short of the season. She has by far the best spinns of all the girls (apart from maybe Veronika Z). But Im afraid to get behind her for two reasons that are somewhat connected.
The first is her toe jumps. There is something wrong with the takeoffs that I cant quite put mt fingers on. Most of them look fine in real time but when we see the slow mo most of them are off axis (both 4T today both the 3Lz and the 3F also a bit on the 3Lo) The lutz she fell on was obviously the worst but we have seen how off her 4Ts can be. There is also a problem mostly on 3F and 3Lz that she doesnt get any heigh from picking her free legs. Its either something to do with the timing or with her overflexible hips but I cant quite put my fingers on what isnt working properly.
The second reason is puberty related and my fear is it will make the above problems worse similairly to what happend to Gubanova. She is allready verry tall and looks more like a woman than either Sasha or Anna who is 2 years older than her and my fear is that she will struggle if she continue to grow as she has this last year. Realisticly she should have at least one major growth spurt ahead in the coming years.
Of course nothing of this may happen and she might fix her issues of her toe jumps and dont suffer through a major growth spurt and I might just be another dooms day predicter but I just dont see this lasting. I would be happy to be proved wrong though.
The first is her toe jumps. There is something wrong with the takeoffs that I cant quite put mt fingers on. Most of them look fine in real time but when we see the slow mo most of them are off axis (both 4T today both the 3Lz and the 3F also a bit on the 3Lo) The lutz she fell on was obviously the worst but we have seen how off her 4Ts can be. There is also a problem mostly on 3F and 3Lz that she doesnt get any heigh from picking her free legs. Its either something to do with the timing or with her overflexible hips but I cant quite put my fingers on what isnt working properly.
The second reason is puberty related and my fear is it will make the above problems worse similairly to what happend to Gubanova. She is allready verry tall and looks more like a woman than either Sasha or Anna who is 2 years older than her and my fear is that she will struggle if she continue to grow as she has this last year. Realisticly she should have at least one major growth spurt ahead in the coming years.
Of course nothing of this may happen and she might fix her issues of her toe jumps and dont suffer through a major growth spurt and I might just be another dooms day predicter but I just dont see this lasting. I would be happy to be proved wrong though.
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- Mar 20, 2019
I believe the knee-bend itself isn't what matters. It's that theoretically it allows you to have a nice flowing running-edge out of the landing. If a skater can do it without that then good on them. Generally the Japanese skaters have more flow out of their jumps though so maybe there's something to it.
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- Oct 22, 2019
Kamila!!!!!! Woohoo
Almost clean and well done on the second attempt at the 3Lutz3T
I was super happy she hit the first 4T as well. I didn't want her to keep falling on it and for it to become a "thing"
I like that they got rid of the monstrosity that was the first costume. I really like Bolero for her. Kamila is a gorgeous girl. It's probably tempting and easy to put her in a pretty dress so I'm glad they're experimenting with different looks for her.
I've got a slightly different take on Kamila being tall and growing. Imo it's best to just grow now and see what you're dealing with than waiting around for when that growth spurt will hit. I'm relieved that she's grown heaps since junior worlds but has kept her jumps and learnt a 3A as well. I think it means she (or her body) can adjust quickly to the growing.
Almost clean and well done on the second attempt at the 3Lutz3T
I was super happy she hit the first 4T as well. I didn't want her to keep falling on it and for it to become a "thing"
I like that they got rid of the monstrosity that was the first costume. I really like Bolero for her. Kamila is a gorgeous girl. It's probably tempting and easy to put her in a pretty dress so I'm glad they're experimenting with different looks for her.
I've got a slightly different take on Kamila being tall and growing. Imo it's best to just grow now and see what you're dealing with than waiting around for when that growth spurt will hit. I'm relieved that she's grown heaps since junior worlds but has kept her jumps and learnt a 3A as well. I think it means she (or her body) can adjust quickly to the growing.
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- Mar 26, 2014
"Flow" is even less defined term than "skating skills". What we are talking about: speed, the blade control, anything else? There was a table on speed before and after jumps. Japanese skaters did not strike to be that faster on average. Kaori is quite fast on landings. But I think Alyona was no worse last season. As for the blade control it was Eteri's skaters who started doing crazy transitions immediately after landing. The Japanese and Americans followed. Ok, once again, we are free to disagree. Even to say the things like "everybody knows that...."
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- Feb 27, 2014
Agreed!
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- Feb 13, 2018
It means Olympic qualifying will be wild next season
I could not decide between the four
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- Joined
- Mar 23, 2018
The difference is that Valieva skates Bolero ... there it has a minimum of coherence to place that movement within the program, that it is executed badly is another story. Instead, the beginning coach sells Trusova's program as a Shakespeare skating in a spiked suit ... and well, I don't know where there is the least consistency in making that move in that program...Well, I don't mind Kamila's hip-shimmy. It doesn't go with the music or tempo or theme of the FS at all, but at this point, if she enjoys putting it in the program and is happy with it (as Daniil is probably happy with it too) I say sure, why not?
Now, if I hear how "immodest", "unlady like", "indecent", "improper" or "immoral" it is for one young lady to shine in her hip shimmy dance moment (like it was said for some other skater this season) BUT it is completely OK for the other one, then I'll fall out of my chair laughing out loud because the bias is showing
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- Oct 10, 2020
No I don't remember Alyona ever being great in step sequences, none of the Golden Trio do. Also Alyona's level 2 step sequences are just plain atrocious this year so I don't know WTH are you talking about. She is not very dynamic and fast nor very precise when she does her steps. I'd rather attribute that to how brilliant the choreography was. Adios Nonino is probably Eteri's greatest work. Also you have been quite adamant on how Kamila will be scored lower internationally and relative to Alyona and Rika scores which is already quite a stretch at this point since the two are nowhere near the form to even get 80+. Currently the judges most of the time don't artificially deflate contenders to save veteran skaters who are struggling or who's tech is lagging from being usurp. See how easily they give out GOE's and PCS to Anna and Alyona banishing Zagitova and Medvedeva to second class.
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