2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[TripleAxelQueens3]

I may get pushback and may get most everybody on my case, but if I’m a coach, I want my athletes to have this kind of will, desire and pain threshold.

Think about it, rather than quit, she did this. Gets unlimited respect from me.

Also, a special mention to Liza that was obviously not in game shape but also fought like the devil. You could see a few seconds in her cardio wasn’t where it usually is. And at the end she struggled as well.

I have a high tolerance for forum pain so you can bring the rebuttals and even call me an uncaring sob, or worse, if you chose.

Yes, great that Anya wants to win. BUT IT'S NOT GREAT THAT SHE'S LITERALLY HAVING TROUBLE BREATHING AND NEEDS TO RESORT TO USING SMELLING SALTS TO FINISH A SP. This isn't a life or death battle. She literally doesn't have to be here. And it's not quit the sport or skate at RusNats. There's not only two options here. She could just rest and go to Worlds and perform amazingly there because she's recovered. Yes, wanting win is great, but as we've seen with Sasha before, sometimes playing the game right (and safely without putting 16 year old girls's health and future in danger) is more important than wanting to win. Yes, instead of allowing a minor to take recover from a serious illness and ensure her health for future competitions, we allow her to do quads and backloaded 3-3s even though she can't even get through a program with three jumping passes without using smelling salts and gasping for breaths. What amazing coaching.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

I don't know the order tomorrow who skates when but if KV is ahead of Sasha when Anna skates do you think there's a chance that EG will pull Anna because TT will have won the Nationals gold and not want to risk AS skating a four minute free skate when she's not in top condition?

Kamila is skating right before Anya (and right after Sasha).

 

[chasingneverland]

I don't know the order tomorrow who skates when but if KV is ahead of Sasha when Anna skates do you think there's a chance that EG will pull Anna because TT will have won the Nationals gold and not want to risk AS skating a four minute free skate when she's not in top condition?

It goes Sasha, Kamila, Anna, Daria to end the FS. I don't see them pulling Anna while she is on the ice right before skating. She skates right after Kamila.

 

[NAOTMAA]

I don't know the order tomorrow who skates when but if KV is ahead of Sasha when Anna skates do you think there's a chance that EG will pull Anna because TT will have won the Nationals gold and not want to risk AS skating a four minute free skate when she's not in top condition?

I cannot (and will not!) believe Eteri would do a thing like that. I have always believed she wants all her skaters a equal chance to win even if it means one of them loses. She would want Anna to have a chance to win even if Kamila was leading. And doing what you suggest would in my opinion be extremely cold hearted, nasty and pretty unethical of her. I don't think she would put on of her girls lives at risk like that for the sake of a gold medal. I would support banning her if she did something like that.

I believe Anna is extremely stubborn and like any top level athlete wants to compete and its possible despite everything we have seen she has clearance to compete from doctors. At most I think if she doesn't pull out and does compete they will observe how everyone else does before deciding if she goes for 1 or 2 quads. That's all

 

[Scott512]

Kamila is skating right before Anya (and right after Sasha).

So if KV is ahead of Sasha when her scores come up do they pull Anna? Or would that piss her off since she's going for an unbelievable Russian Nationals three-peat?

 

[Scott512]

I cannot (and will not!) believe Eteri would do a thing like that. I have always believed she wants all her skaters a equal chance to win even if it means one of them loses. She would want Anna to have a chance to win even if Kamila was leading. And doing what you suggest would in my opinion be extremely cold hearted, nasty and pretty unethical. I don't think she would put on of her girls lives at risk like that for the sake of a gold medal. I believe Anna is extremely stubborn and like any top level athlete wants to compete and its possible despite everything we have seen she has clearance to compete from doctors.

At most I think if she doesn't pull out and does compete they will observe how everyone else does before deciding if she goes for 1 or 2 quads. That's all

You're probably right but my point was if KV is ahead of Sasha when Anna skates and if Anna is iffy with her breathing then they could have the option to have her withdraw. It probably won't happen but I'm pretty sure EG
wants one of her girls to win Nationals and go 1-2 no doubt.

 

[chasingneverland]

I may get pushback and may get most everybody on my case, but if I’m a coach, I want my athletes to have this kind of will, desire and pain threshold.

Think about it, rather than quit, she did this. Gets unlimited respect from me.

Also, a special mention to Liza that was obviously not in game shape but also fought like the devil. You could see a few seconds in her cardio wasn’t where it usually is. And at the end she struggled as well.

I have a high tolerance for forum pain so you can bring the rebuttals and even call me an uncaring sob, or worse, if you chose.

The issue isn't the athlete's themselves wanting to compete. You don't get to this level without that drive and dedication. That also applies to Sasha (who's injured) and Liza and Alena (who are also ill and both want to skate. By all accounts, Alena did want to be here and Plushy decided to listen to doctors and withdraw her.)

The issue rests with the coaches who are letting their skates skate, in a competition which they've already said is just motivational and won't decide the World's team, when they're not even close to healthy.

 

[alexocfp]

Yes, great that Anya wants to win. BUT IT'S NOT GREAT THAT SHE'S LITERALLY HAVING TROUBLE BREATHING AND NEEDS TO RESORT TO USING SMELLING SALTS TO FINISH A SP. This isn't a life or death battle. She literally doesn't have to be here. And it's not quit the sport or skate at RusNats. There's not only two options here. She could just rest and go to Worlds and perform amazingly there because she's recovered. Yes, wanting win is great, but as we've seen with Sasha before, sometimes playing the game right (and safely without putting 16 year old girls's health and future in danger) is more important than wanting to win. Yes, instead of allowing a minor to take recover from a serious illness and ensure her health for future competitions, we allow her to do quads and backloaded 3-3s even though she can't even get through a program with three jumping passes without using smelling salts and gasping for breaths. What amazing coaching.

Had she withdrawn, nobody would have thought any less of her.

And of course nobody in their right mind is wishing her ill.

And I can see the other side of the coin, that sometimes you have to protect athletes from themselves.

But, her doing what she did and under the circumstance, is a legendary scenario.

 

[chasingneverland]

So if KV is ahead of Sasha when her scores come up do they pull Anna? Or would that piss her off since she's going for an unbelievable Russian Nationals three-peat?

She is quite literally on the ice at that point and has already warmed up. I doubt they would unless Anna herself says she can't skate.

 

[alexocfp]

The issue isn't the athlete's themselves wanting to compete. You don't get to this level without that drive and dedication. That also applies to Sasha (who's injured) and Liza and Alena (who are also ill and both want to skate. By all accounts, Alena did want to be here and Plushy decided to listen to doctors and withdraw her.)

The issue rests with the coaches who are letting their skates skate, in a competition which they've already said is just motivational and won't decide the World's team, when they're not even close to healthy.

That’s one narrative. And I mentioned above that sometimes you need to protect the athletes from theselves.

But, what if she wanted to go through with it? Shouldn’t we respect that?

We are looking at it that because these athletes are young, they have no say in their lives and are easily manipulated. They have mental toughness that is uncommon.

At 16, I was doing what I wanted to do and nobody could talk me out of it.

Before we start telling the coaches forced an athlete to compete against her will, let’s find some evidence of that.

If it comes out she wanted to go through with it no matter what, then there is less of a discussion.

 

[chasingneverland]

You're probably right but my point was if KV is ahead of Sasha when Anna skates and if Anna is iffy with her breathing then they could have the option to have her withdraw. It probably won't happen but I'm pretty sure EG
wants one of her girls to win Nationals and go 1-2 no doubt.

I mean they could still go 1-2. Daria and Maiia are dark horses (especially Maiia) but could still place very high. It wouldn't even take a catastrophe from Sasha who is skating a watered down program. Liza is also more than catchable especially for Daria.

 

[Scott512]

Yes, great that Anya wants to win. BUT IT'S NOT GREAT THAT SHE'S LITERALLY HAVING TROUBLE BREATHING AND NEEDS TO RESORT TO USING SMELLING SALTS TO FINISH A SP. This isn't a life or death battle. She literally doesn't have to be here. And it's not quit the sport or skate at RusNats. There's not only two options here. She could just rest and go to Worlds and perform amazingly there because she's recovered. Yes, wanting win is great, but as we've seen with Sasha before, sometimes playing the game right (and safely without putting 16 year old girls's health and future in danger) is more important than wanting to win. Yes, instead of allowing a minor to take recover from a serious illness and ensure her health for future competitions, we allow her to do quads and backloaded 3-3s even though she can't even get through a program with three jumping passes without using smelling salts and gasping for breaths. What amazing coaching.

athletes are going to want an athlete especially when a championship is on the line like Russian Nationals.

Let me ask you this TAQ? Where are the parents of Anna in this situation. can a father put the kibosh on this whole thing by saying honey I didn't like what I saw I'm worried about you you're going to be on a worlds team if there is a worlds so don't worry about that. Don't worry about what your coaches or teammates think. I want you to withdraw from the free skate and then skate in the gala the next day. But do these athletes rule over their parents because they're famous and successful even more so than their parents? I can tell you this Anna is much tougher than she looks as she proved today and she will want to skate tomorrow to try to get that very rare three-peat.

The excitement and drama tomorrow will be huge. I hope we all enjoy what happens and don't get too upset.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

That’s one narrative. And I mentioned above that sometimes you need to protect the athletes from theselves.

But, what if she wanted to go through with it? Shoudnt we respect that?

Well when she's a minor and clearly in no shape to compete, the team of adults should use their brains and say "no". I respect that Anna is so determined to win, great for her, but I cannot respect the team for allowing her to compete. If Anna wants to go through with it (which I know she does), that doesn't mean it's the right decision. Young skaters choosing for themselves what do to is usually not a great plan (Sasha at Rostelecom?).

 

[chasingneverland]

That’s one narrative. And I mentioned above that sometimes you need to protect the athletes from theselves.

But, what if she wanted to go through with it? Shoudnt we respect that?

You can respect it and make the decision to pull her anyway. Plushy did with Alena. They did it with Anna herself at Rostelecom. Anna is still a minor and her coaches and parents need to take her career and life into account.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Regardless of what happens in the free skate I just want everyone to be in one piece and still have a skating career when its over

 

[alexocfp]

You can respect it and make the decision to pull her anyway. Plushy did with Alena. They did it with Anna herself at Rostelecom. Anna is still a minor and her coaches and parents need to take her career and life into account.

If the above happened, I wouldn’t be upset at all.

But parents are different. I know this is a much smaller scale but when I was a kid, they took me to school no matter what. Even with all sorts of colds and flu. I have report cards that show 1 and zero missed days of school in a year.

And you know what? That kind of determination amd work ethic helped me in my adult life.

Again, it’s not in the same atmosphere of what she did.

 

[alexocfp]

Well when she's a minor and clearly in no shape to compete, the team of adults should use their brains and say "no". I respect that Anna is so determined to win, great for her, but I cannot respect the team for allowing her to compete. If Anna wants to go through with it (which I know she does), that doesn't mean it's the right decision. Young skaters choosing for themselves what do to is usually not a great plan (Sasha at Rostelecom?).

I’m not arguing the counterpoint. I can see this side of the argument from a human interest side.

Also, don’t mean to be pedantic and a wise ass but the age of consent in Russia is less.

Is she considered a minor over there?

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

If the above happened, I wouldn’t be upset at all.

But parents are different. I know this is a much smaller scale but when I was a kid, they took me to school no matter what. Even with all sorts of colds and flu. I have report cards that show 1 and zero missed days of school in a year.

And you know what? That kind of determination amd work ethic helped me in my adult life.

Again, it’s not in the same atmosphere of what she did.

I know you know that the analogy is clearly faulty but still... you going to school with a flu or a cold (I did too) wouldn't like seriously hurt your health right? You weren't like struggling to get through a day without fainting right? You didn't need to take smelling salts to stay conscious right? There's a fine line between determination and dangerous, and Anna skating here is definitely on the dangerous side.

 

[Amei]

I don't know the order tomorrow who skates when but if KV is ahead of Sasha when Anna skates do you think there's a chance that EG will pull Anna because TT will have won the Nationals gold and not want to risk AS skating a four minute free skate when she's not in top condition?

I doubt it

• Eteri would be risking ticking off her top senior skater (after she lost the other 2 in the offseason) if she attempted to strip her of her shot at a third national title. Trusova has said that Eteri and her coaches at Sambo restricting her on the number of quads she wanted to do was part of the reason she left.
• The last 3 skaters are Sambo skaters, if Valieva is ahead of Trusova and given the SP today if Shcherbakova and Usacheva are clean its highly likely they score ahead of Trusova and that would be Eteri's third sweep of the nationals podium 3 years in a row.
• Eteri seems very much 'this is a business' so I don't think she would be favoring 1 skater over another
• The Russian ladies field since Sochi is incredibly deep and talented and Shcherbakova if she's able (I honestly could see her winning with a 1 quad clean program unless Trusova or Valieva whips out an insane program) will be the national champion for the third consecutive year something that hasn't been accomplished in years, has only been accomplished by 2 other Russian ladies and would be incredibly difficult to ever do again in the foreseeable future. Plus, if Shcherbakova doesn't win nationals next year for the Olympics, it would be incredibly difficult for her to be left off the Olympic team by the coach's council, which would give Eteri at least 1 skater at the Olympics.

 

[alexocfp]

I know you know that the analogy is clearly faulty but still... you going to school with a flu or a cold (I did too) wouldn't like seriously hurt your health right? You weren't like struggling to get through a day without fainting right? You didn't need to take smelling salts to stay conscious right? There's a fine line between determination and dangerous, and Anna skating here is definitely on the dangerous side.

Great debate, great discussion.

Already admitted my example and hers are a galaxy apart.

But, what is she competes later today, wins, and suffers no ill effects long term. Wouldn‘t that mean this was all worth it?

And this might sound crass, but for some people, medals and championships are more important than life. That’s why so many shorten and lose their lives to achieve them.

Not saying the above applies to her.

It’s a complicated issue and like you said (and I agree with) it’s a fine line indeed.

I‘m still running the scenario of what I would do if she was my daughter.

It is a lot easier admittedly to say things about a stranger.