2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Amei]

I know you know that the analogy is clearly faulty but still... you going to school with a flu or a cold (I did too) wouldn't like seriously hurt your health right? You weren't like struggling to get through a day without fainting right? You didn't need to take smelling salts to stay conscious right? There's a fine line between determination and dangerous, and Anna skating here is definitely on the dangerous side.

Until Shcherbakova or a coach states the reason she took what we are thinking was smelling salts we are just guessing. Could we be careful about stating our theories on a skater's health as fact? Smelling salts can be used to improve alertness, if she is taking a medication to help her sleep at night while she has been recovering, it could be something as simple as they were giving her an extra jolt to wake her up, like a medicinal 5-hour energy shot.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Until Shcherbakova or a coach states the reason she took what we are thinking was smelling salts we are just guessing. Could we be careful about stating our theories on a skater's health as fact? Smelling salts can be used to improve alertness, if she is taking a medication to help her sleep at night while she has been recovering, it could be something as simple as they were giving her an extra jolt to wake her up, like a medicinal 5-hour energy shot.

Well if she's taking anything to aid her recovery I hope they covered all their bases and it doesn't contain anything banned. The mere hint of any of that is the last thing any Russian athlete needs at this moment

 

[chasingneverland]

I’m not arguing the counterpoint. I can see this side of the argument from a human interest side.

Also, don’t mean to be pedantic and a wise ass but the age of consent in Russia is less.

Is she considered a minor over there?

The age of majority in Russia is 18 so she's a minor.

 

[Jontor]

What a fantastic short program competition that was!

Shcherbakova - wonderful skate! That 3Lz+3Lo was out of this world. I think it might be the best one she ever did. Well deserved first place. I hope her stamina gets her through the free skate tomorrow, she might not show up though.

Valieva - great skate as always but she seemed a little nervous. Her spins are just everything. Pity about the 3A, but this way it gets more exciting, no?

Usacheva - Daria has grown on me this season. A little stumble out of the Ina Bauer, but otherwise a great skate. It will be interesting to see if she can fight for a medal here.

Trusova - Clean skate but nothing special to me. I really like this short though. I hope she has a clean skate tomorrow as well. Will she go for only the two 4Lzs?

Tuktamysheva - solid skate by Liza. But clearly she is not in the same form as at GP Rostelecom. I doubt she will fight for a medal here but if she does I will be delighted!

Nugumanova - I'm sooo happy for little Liza. Finally she got the scores she deserves. Gorgeous spins and that 3Lo+3Lo is sooo cool. This was the surprise of the night for me.

Khromykh - great skate. I really like her. Can she go clean tomorrow she might also have a chance on a medal. I haven't seen a clean free skate from her yet, but sometime will be the first, right?

Gulyakova - always falls under my radar and I would have had her below Ksenia and Sofia. Clearly there is something the judges see that I don't, but that happens sometimes.

Tsibinova - great to see a clean skate from Ksenia. She bombed the short last year. I still think she's a bit underscored, I would definitely have her above Gulyakova.

Samodurova - I really really like this program. It suits Sofia very well. Tiny jumps as usual but a nice skate overall.

Talalaykina - I loooove Maria. She has a unique style that I really like. For the first ever, she got level 4s on steps and all spins! And the combo was great! That darn 3Lo though. Aargh. Without that mistake she would have been up there with Ksenia and Sofia. I hope for a good free skate tomorrow to one of my favourite programs this year - the magnificent Maleficent.

Molchanova - this girl has something. Very nice spins. Great to see someone not from Moscow or SP. I hope Urmanov can build his camp and be a force to come.

Konstantinova - I was sooo rooting for her to have a clean skate but no. Like Stasya, I yelled out Oh No when she fell on that Flip. She really is a wonderful skater, hopefully she can do better tomorrow.

Onishchenko - cute little program. much better here than at the Russian Cup stages. Hope she goes clean tomorrow too.

Tarakanova - this was a disaster for Nastya. But cudos to manage to get that 3T out of that wonky 2Lz! I am having Nationals 2019 flashbacks here, she will redeem herself in the free.

Frolova - poor Anna. This was a diaster as well. She won't be able to defend her nice 6th place from last year. But I am sure she will do better in the free.

Kostina - she was a solid jumper at the Group Stages, but not here. Wish her the best tomorrow.

I won't go into edge discussions (boring) or health concerns (not my or anyone's business), instead I just celebrate the wonderful Christmas present that Russian Nationals always is. Fantastic stuff. Hope everyone is superclean tomorrow. I can't wait.

 

[alexocfp]

The age of majority in Russia is 18 so she's a minor.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

Great debate, great discussion.

Already admitted my example and hers are a galaxy apart.

But, what is she competes later today, wins, and suffers no ill effects long term. Wouldn‘t that mean this was all worth it?

And this might sound crass, but for some people, medals and championships are more important than life. That’s why so many shorten and lose their lives to achieve them.

Not saying the above applies to her.

It’s a complicated issue and like you said (and I agree with) it’s a fine line indeed.

I‘m still running the scenario of what I would do if she was my daughter.

It is a lot easier admittedly to say things about a stranger.

If she does win, that would be amazing, but it’s just that :
1. the chance of her winning isn’t that high
2. how prepared she is for the FS is a complete mystery. You have videos of her doing quads but also she chose to do her SP for the first practice and she has said she hasn’t done full run throughs yet.

I am obviously hoping she gets through the FS with no issues though. (please!!!)

I do know that lots of athletes hold medals above their lives but Anna is 16 and she has so much potential yet to be unlocked (she’s already this musical at 16? What would she be like when she’s 18 or 20 or even older?)

My biggest issue with the whole “but what if she wins” perspective is that yeah, okay at best she might win but at worst? I don’t even want to imagine the worst case scenario.

 

[karina17]

2. how prepared she is for the FS is a complete mystery. You have videos of her doing quads but also she chose to do her SP for the first practice and she has said she hasn’t done full run throughs yet.

I am obviously hoping she gets through the FS with no issues though. (please!!!)

She ran her FS for the second day of practice. There aren't full videos but there was a grainy clip on Instagram of everything from the 3Lz+3Lo to the final pose.

I guess it's possible that she just ran the second half? But given that the quad(s) is in the first half I can't see her skipping over that.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Kamila has an outside edge lutz. At 5:08 you can see another angle of it. Like all skaters, Kamila has her issues but lutz and flip edges are definitely not one of them. I definitely think she was overscored compared to Anna today in PCS, but what she does better is her lutz/flip edges. She's now one of the very few who have correct edges on both jumps. I think the only one in the top here, and maybe only her and Rika amongst the top ladies worldwide.

Sorry flat outside. Thought it was inside due to camera angle , and accept I made a mistake here.

Honestly, when comparing Kamilas flip and Sasha's flip they look very similar. Sasha may have a slightly flatter edge but they both seem like typical flip jumps.

Liza has a good edge on both I think (even if her flip doesn't look elegant)

(Unrelated note)




Btw anybody here going to talk about every girl doing rippon on basically every jump? I think it's become a substitute for a weaker core now - it keeps you straighter in the air without having to use core muscles

Must girls muscle these jumps with upper body, which normally sets them off axis. But a rippon is a bandaid that will keep you much straighter in the air.

 

[Vilord]

Can we please drop the who is the most irresponsible coach (for allowing skater X to skate injured or ill) it going nowhere and in any case it doesnt belong here.

About Anna. Do we have any photo/video evidence (or interview staatements) regarding the smelling salts? I havent seen any and without it its just hearsay and shouldnt be brandied about as fact.

But I must say that her breathing at the end of yesturdays program makes me worried because she has never sounded like that before after any performance. I have three things to say about it.

1st. Yeasturday was just the short and the free will be much more challenging. How will she cope with the longer program that also has quads (and multiple backloaded 3-3s)?

2nd. Whenever I have been ill and coming back and practicing/ competing on less than ideal healt wise in the lung department one max performance (like Anna yeasturday) allways makes it worse for a few days. Which if Annas lungs are anything like mine is not a good sign for today.

3rd. My worries is not really that the exhaustion will cause any permanent damage to her lungs because I dont thing she would be here if doctors belived that to be the case. But it is more what will happen towards the end of her program when she is getting seriously fatigued. Thats when mistakes start to happen and mistakes are often the cause of other injuries.

Hoping for the best and that Im just paranoid

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Can we please drop the who is the most irresponsible coach (for allowing skater X to skate injured or ill) it going nowhere and in any case it doesnt belong here.

About Anna. Do we have any photo/video evidence (or interview staatements) regarding the smelling salts? I havent seen any and without it its just hearsay and shouldnt be brandied about as fact.

But I must say that her breathing at the end of yesturdays program makes me worried because she has never sounded like that before after any performance. I have three things to say about it.

1st. Yeasturday was just the short and the free will be much more challenging. How will she cope with the longer program that also has quads (and multiple backloaded 3-3s)?

2nd. Whenever I have been ill and coming back and practicing/ competing on less than ideal healt wise in the lung department one max performance (like Anna yeasturday) allways makes it worse for a few days. Which if Annas lungs are anything like mine is not a good sign for today.

3rd. My worries is not really that the extation will cause any permanent damage to her lungs because I dont thing she would be here if doctors belived that to be the case. But it is more what will happen towards the end of her program when she is getting seriously fatigued. Thats when mistakes start to happen and mistakes are often the cause of other injuries.

Hoping for the best and that Im just paranoid

1st point: I don't see it possible for her to skate clean. She will probably prove me wrong, but even the average skater who skates a sp with a similar tech content (triple-triple, double axel, triple solo) doesn't breath that heavily after a sp runthrough. It's clear Covid has negatively affected her.
2st point: Even when I'm not ill, I always feel terrible for days after when doing a runthrough after a period of not doing it for a while. It's pretty hard to manage even a short program with 3 jumping passes. Anna would be irresponsible to think short term and not think ahead.
3rd point: Not necessarily. It's totally possible it could cause permanent damage, but they are ignoring doctors advice or the doctors didn't give them the advice. Honestly, the injury risk is there.

last sentence: You're not paranoid. you're sensible.

 

[flanker]

So you can perfectly see the status of the Flip edge there but didn't see a Lze for Daria, even when shown the Flip and Lutz in the same competition side by side from a zoomed in slowmo. I seriously fail to see where this moral superiority on cherry-picking comes from.

I've commented Daria's edge on several occasions, not my problem you haven't read it. While you people still missing the very basic point. None of you ever cares when a skater of AoP doesn't receive a call that he/she should. Simply because that does not fit your invented narrative that the judges somehow favour precisely Eteri skaters and put others down (both nationally and internationnally, because hey, Eteri owns ISU ), which simply doesn't match the reality. Remember that a thesis cannot withstand a single proof against it, even if you chose to ignore it forever. And that's truly all that can be said about it, of course no one prevents you from living in a dream world if you prefer it over reality.

 

[FelineFairy]

Kamila has an outside edge lutz. At 5:08 you can see another angle of it. Like all skaters, Kamila has her issues but lutz and flip edges are definitely not one of them. I definitely think she was overscored compared to Anna today in PCS, but what she does better is her lutz/flip edges. She's now one of the very few who have correct edges on both jumps. I think the only one in the top here, and maybe only her and Rika amongst the top ladies worldwide.

The last sentence made me think a lot.
I never participate in edge discussions, and won't do it now. I believe that if I don't have the skills to immediately discern it while watching live, it doesn't make sense watching and rewatching in slow motion. After all, figure skating is a sport we watch because we enjoy it, and enjoying edges in slow motion is rather weird.

But I did get the impression that edge calls have been getting more frequent for the last years, can't tell exactly how long - 10? 15? Longer? Not as long as the new judging system exists, even though it is in the rules.

If only 2 of the top ladies can perform jumps correctly, it means that this requirement is either obsolete or applied in an incorrect way. The coaches who teach jumps would never disregard a requirement if they understood it was important for winning or losing.
So what happened? Did most coaches lose their skills to teach correct jumps? Sounds like nonsense. Maybe nothing happened with skaters' technique and coaches' skills? And the edge calls, appearing and disappearing randomly, are just one of the tools replacing the old "total placements" tool, which had always seemed to me the best method for arbitrary and unfair judging...

 

[Ophelia]

But, her doing what she did and under the circumstance, is a legendary scenario.

Legendarily stupid and short-sighted, you mean.

There is nothing heroic about Scherbokova's decision to skate on smelling salts and it's reckless to glamorize it as such. More like naive foolhardiness.

Winning the Olympics is a marathon, not a sprint, and definitely not a sprint where you're half incapacitated.

 

[Fried]

I've commented Daria's edge on several occasions, not my problem you haven't read it. While you people still missing the very basic point. None of you ever cares when a skater of AoP doesn't receive a call that he/she should. Simply because that does not fit your invented narrative that the judges somehow favour precisely Eteri skaters and put others down (both nationally and internationnally, because hey, Eteri owns ISU ), which simply doesn't match the reality. Remember that a thesis cannot withstand a single proof against it, even if you chose to ignore it forever. And that's truly all that can be said about it, of course no one prevents you from living in a dream world if you prefer it over reality.

Where should evidence come from? There are certainly no pay slips. The fact is, however, that even in criminal law, circumstantial evidence is completely sufficient if it gives a conclusive picture. And that is undoubtedly the case here.

 

[karina17]

Anna landed a 4Lz in today's practice. No idea what layout she's doing at this point.

 

[silveruskate]

I've commented Daria's edge on several occasions, not my problem you haven't read it. While you people still missing the very basic point. None of you ever cares when a skater of AoP doesn't receive a call that he/she should. Simply because that does not fit your invented narrative that the judges somehow favour precisely Eteri skaters and put others down (both nationally and internationnally, because hey, Eteri owns ISU ), which simply doesn't match the reality. Remember that a thesis cannot withstand a single proof against it, even if you chose to ignore it forever. And that's truly all that can be said about it, of course no one prevents you from living in a dream world if you prefer it over reality.

That is simply your narrative. Over here Sasha's edge was called. No one is saying it shouldn't be called IF there was consistent calling between the skaters. You're the one cherry-picking in this case. Back at you on all the dream world stuff.

 

[silveruskate]

For anyone looking, this is where a lot of practice videos are:

https://www.instagram.com/f.u.n.sector/

 

[[email protected]]

Anna could easily just pull out her VIP card and have her ticket to Worlds punched but she's a trooper and a consumate athlete who wants to earn her due. Also the possibility of becoming a 3 peat national champion in the Golden Era of Russian figure skating cannot be scoff at. She could do it now and Rus Fed would give her spot. The same chorus of people who are showing their fake concerns and want her to withdraw would be the same loud voices voicing their indignation when Rus Fed inevitably do so when that happens. She has that much clout.

For people who are genuinely concern about Anna's health obviously you've never seen much sport outside of figure skating. Tennis players, boxers, long distance runners, mountaineers e.g. are examples of athletes who have a gladiator and siege mentality. I've seen tennis players who look like they are about to pass out in a match because of heat or lingering injury but soldier on and win their matches. Mountaineers risk their lives climbing mountains even common trekkers do when they get up really high. I guess figure skaters especially ladies have a delicate image that haggard breathing after a lights out skate where every movement is performed would be considered alarming.

You named it right. Fake concerns with Eteri being cherripicked yet another time. I am sure that they will have an open discussion if Anna can skate. No one wants her collapse in front of the whole world. Neither she nor Eteri is stupid.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Anna landed a 4Lz in today's practice. No idea what layout she's doing at this point.

If she does a 4x, she will miss her combinations in the second half. (This is my prediction).
Honestly, the chances are Sasha and Kamila will make major mistakes. If she is to skate today she will easily make the podium with all triples (if she is able to manage this), and chances are she could win with all triples.

I personally think she should withdraw for the sake of her long term health, but as this is unlikely it'll be interesting to see what happens in terms of jump content

 

[flanker]

That is simply your narrative. Over here Sasha's edge was called. No one is saying it shouldn't be called IF there was consistent calling between the skaters. You're the one cherry-picking in this case. Back at you on all the dream world stuff.

Once again: when Sasha didn't receive "e" when she should, there was no complaint about it, while there was a complaint about Daria's edge (and some tried and still try to put Kamila's edge into question, for which there is no reason) to support Plushy's words about "unfair judging" towards his skaters (which also contained grievance about the PCS - basically "how can 14 y.o. receive the PCS of 16 y.o.", which was also welcomed loudly ).

So, the thing is: there are cases when Eteri skater doesn't receive a call that he/she should, but there are also cases when non-Eteri skater doesn't receive a call that he/she should. There are also cases where either of them receives lower score than with all honesty should (just like now, I myself said that Sasha should receive higher score yesterday, at least in relation to other scores, but IMO Maiia should also receive higher score, she clearly is not favoured which she should be because you allegedly only need to be Eteri skater for being favoured).

Therefore all the grievance about "favouritism towards Eteri skaters" is simply not true, maintained just to give people something to complain about IMO.