2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[sclloyd]

Agreed. I just don't like the proclamations that Anna/her team lied when so far, there's no sign they did and blaming them for Aliona and Liza getting sick when Aliona (at least) was exposed prior to Kamila skating at the Rostelecom Cup.

Has everyone been responsible? No but that's true for everyone (literally every rink has made questionable decisions and all main skaters are either injured or ill or both) and especially the Fed. And according to Fed rules (which I think are too lax but that's not skaters' fault) there is no indication that her team did anything wrong (ruleswise) with regards to either Anna or anyone else.

Regardless, it doesn't matter now. The fact remains that the Fed didn't handle any of this correctly and it resulted in their entire national team getting sick and/or injured, which could have serious long-term implications. (Not to mention these are human beings with hopes and dreams we're talking about (outside of skating as well). All of which are doing the best with what they can control - what they do on the ice.)

Definitely not blaming Anna, she is going to do whatever she can get away with, it is the nature of competitive athletes to want to compete and if those around her give her that option, of course she will take it. I do find it highly unlikely that, even if they were all exposed elsewhere, Aliona, Liza, and the other member of Mishin's camp (don't recall his name atm) were infected all at different locations given they all tested positive within a day (if I'm remembering the timeline correctly). That would mean that the contagious spread of it occurred somewhere when they were together, which is Rostelecom. It may be so that this is all rumor, and it didn't originate from Anna, (and then from Zhenya before her) but it is rather convenient. It may be that Anna didn't even have it. The tests are far from a good authority.

Regardless, we agree that the Fed really has been quite reckless.

 

[Decoder]

To add some fuel here?

Another Gorshkov statement: There is no information that Shcherbakova performed with fever.

(From: https://www.sports.ru/figure-skatin...shherbakova-vystupala-.html?from=main-news-fs)

The head of the Russian Figure Skating Federation (FFKR) Alexander Gorshkov denied information that Anna Shcherbakova performed in the short program at the Russian Championship with a heat of 38 degrees.

“There is no information that Shcherbakova performed with fever. Everything was within the rules.

Moreover, you know that a temperature measuring device is installed in the arena, ”Gorshkov said.

 

[chasingneverland]

Because this virus is hugely infectious, have you seen the stats out of the US? Out of the UK?

Yes the flu is a thing, but in a lot of countries right now, COVID has such a tight grip that yes, in fact it probably is more likely that it's that.

I had a fever yesterday actually, thankfully it's gone today. You know what I didn't do while I had it? Run around and possibly expose it to every damn person in my suburb.

It's common sense, although it seems the old saying is true: "For being common, common sense is incredibly uncommon."

But then I'm from a country willing to shut down the entire area I was in over 15 cases. Even then it has still grown to a cluster of 122.

Yeah you didn't run around but there are two differences here.

1. I'm assuming you didn't take a COVID test. Anna did and it was negative.
(For the record, I've had a fever since COVID began. It was determined not to be COVID so I was given the clearance (by doctors) to go to work/go out in public/carry on as normal quarantine wise.)
2. You're an adult. She's a 16 year old who was determined to win nationals yet again. She made the decision she would compete at nationals a month ago and wouldn't be dissuaded (even by her coaches or parents). It would have been out of her hands had she gotten a positive test and no amount of wanting to would have changed that. But her test (and everyone else's) was negative.

 

[anonymoose_au]

That's exactly why it's wrong to say a definitive opinion in this case. Thanks.

Really only her doctor could say that and he has from what we know diagnosed her with pneumonia not COVID.

If she had a fever she was probably still infectious.

This is basically the same as if Anna had a dinner party, invited everyone over and then at the end after everyone's finished the meal casually declare she's so happy she could do this because she only stopped throwing up that morning and is pretty sure she had gastro. "But I'm fine now!"

What would you feel if you'd been at that party? As an emetophobe I would have an actual panic attack and probably keep having them for days and days afterwards.

So now everyone in close contact with her has to play the fun little game:

"Is my nose running because it's cold or am I sick?"

"Do I have a fever or am I just sitting too close to the heater?"

"Does my knee ache because of training or..."

Happy New Year, Russian skaters!

 

[chasingneverland]

"The rankings (Paris, New York, Sydney and Barcelona finish 1, 2, 3, 4) matter less than the strong, definitive opinions (Aleppo's souk "is the most vibrant and untouristy in the entire Middle East" and Shere Khan is the "best Indian restaurant on Curry Mile" in Manchester, England).
3" - quote from New York Times
"Bush seems to be a stronger man with more definitive opinions" - quote from New York Times
"As far as I'm concerned – and I'm sure you want my definitive opinion on this ... " - quote from The Guardian
All come from the link above.
NYT and The Guardian's journalists surely speak poor English and do not understand what they say

You can have a definitive opinion. But in order to do so it needs to be absolute/final. The fact that we're talking about doubts here and no one actually knows means that THIS opinion is NOT.

 

[colormyworld240]

Sofia's illness way back in September and it's clear it didn't cause an outbreak.

Are you serious right now? How do you know Sofia didn't cause an outbreak, and Anna did?

I don't think the best epidemiologists can even come to that conclusion with the given data. We haven't even heard of anyone saying Anna or Sofia had a positive COVID test. And here you are declaring that she's selfish and caused an outbreak even though 1. there isn't a positive test that we know of 2. they haven't tracked the spread in the figure skating community back to her.

And your comparison between Anna being responsible for deciding to compete vs. behind held responsible for causing an outbreak makes no sense. RusFed rules: you can compete with a negative COVID test. Anna tested negative. She was exhausted and had heavy breathing after the SP, I don't think she should've competed the FS. However, she made that decision within the rules. She didn't make the rules the federation did. But you're right, she's the devil.

Since Anna won nationals, here are the accusations:
1) She had COVID not just pneumonia, liar
2) She faked any illness at all to get sympathy from the judges, withdrew from Rostelecom to get more practice time, healthy liar
3) Who cares if she's ill or not because she doped to skate the FS, cheater
4) She was happy after she skated well but she doesn't deserve to be happy or confident, snobby cheater
5) Despite testing negative for COVID, she caused spread in the community, is responsible for RusFed not taking the pandemic seriously, should've invented her own COVID test so there are no possibilities of false negatives, stupid, selfish

Did I miss anything? If anyone doesn't see the hate she's getting, I don't know where your eyes are.

 

[anonymoose_au]

To add some fuel here?

Another Gorshkov statement: There is no information that Shcherbakova performed with fever.

(From: https://www.sports.ru/figure-skatin...shherbakova-vystupala-.html?from=main-news-fs)

The head of the Russian Figure Skating Federation (FFKR) Alexander Gorshkov denied information that Anna Shcherbakova performed in the short program at the Russian Championship with a heat of 38 degrees.

“There is no information that Shcherbakova performed with fever. Everything was within the rules.

Moreover, you know that a temperature measuring device is installed in the arena, ”Gorshkov said.

I wouldn't trust the FFKR to tell me the weather if they were standing outside!

They're a bunch of hideous liars, who couldn't care less.

I swear to God if there was some way I could take them down from faraway Australia I would.

To further add fuel: Maybe you can't make an athlete withdraw, but if they refuse a drug test afterward then they're disqualified, no ifs or buts.

If Anna truly did refuse to have her temperature taken then I'm gonna call it, she should be disqualified and her team fined. And that goes for any skater there as well.

 

[chasingneverland]

I'm not surprised at all if it was/is COVID. Some people just want to win by any means at any costs it's a shame that the sport governing body was not doing anything to stop such behaviours, which in a way is encouraging crazier things to happen in future.

I wouldn't be either. However, Anna tested negative at nationals as did everyone else. No one has said she did have COVID at nationals. The only speculation has been whether she had COVID earlier or not. (For that matter, the entire national team had COVID/or were exposed and that's well before Anna at nationals.)

 

[Mathman]

"The rankings (Paris, New York, Sydney and Barcelona finish 1, 2, 3, 4) matter less than the strong, definitive opinions (Aleppo's souk "is the most vibrant and untouristy in the entire Middle East" and Shere Khan is the "best Indian restaurant on Curry Mile" in Manchester, England).
3" - quote from New York Times
"Bush seems to be a stronger man with more definitive opinions" - quote from New York Times
"As far as I'm concerned – and I'm sure you want my definitive opinion on this ... " - quote from The Guardian
All come from the link above.
NYT and The Guardian's journalists surely speak poor English and do not understand what they say

In my opinion , the first example would be better if the word "definitive" were omitted. I have a strongly-held opinion that some place is untouristy. (I won't commrnt on the word "untouristy. )

In the quote from the New Yor Times, I think that "definite" would be better than "definitive." (Bush, after all, is not defining anything, however firm he might be in his opinion.

Oh well. .

 

[anonymoose_au]

Did I miss anything? If anyone doesn't see the hate she's getting, I don't know where your eyes are

Well I certainly didn't engage in those actions on your list. I defended Anna in fact!

And I'm not hating on her, I'm pointing out she showed a complete disregard for anyone but herself.

And I'm not accusing her of beginning an outbreak, I hope she hasn't, but she made a reckless decision that benefits no-one but herself.

Think about this, what if Kamila gets sick from Anna's actions? What if Alina (in your icon there) gets ill? Will you think so highly of Anna's bravery then?

 

[chasingneverland]

If Anna truly did refuse to have her temperature taken then I'm gonna call it, she should be disqualified and her team fined. And that goes for any skater there as well.

Not if it isn't against the rules. You can't punish people for rules that aren't in place.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Not if it isn't against the rules. You can't punish people for rules that aren't in place.

Oh right I forgot the Russian Figure Skating Fed is a group of complete idiots.

Fine Anna did nothing "technically" wrong, but I can't condone what she did. I'm sorry (and I mean this sincerely), but I just can't.

Medals and winning aren't always worth it and this was one of those times.

 

[chasingneverland]

But at the same time, people were and are still claiming that Anna's old enough to make her own choices.

Which is it? It can't be both.

Unless you're here in which case Anna's a hero who fought through the impossible to win when it's positive comments.

But then when it's negative suddenly it's everyone's fault but hers.

Anna can both be old enough to make her own decisions and still be a 16 year old and potentially not make the best ones - she's not alone there - Sofia, Liza, etc are older than her and made similar ones. She's also 16 and therefore a minor so isn't legally held responsible for them.

You also can praise her for fighting through impossible odds and having a miraculous, stunning skate while also arguing that she never should have been allowed to do that.

Those aren't mutually exclusive statements.

 

[Lzbee]

The only thing I can say is that it is on Anna that she refused to take the second temperature check before the FP. If it was Aliona who was reported to have done this, she would have been cursed to the depths of hell for being a diva. (Yes I am salty at the double standards)

Anyhow, my definitive opinion is that all of Russian coaches, skaters, RusFed and skating fans are utterly irresponsible going by the prevalence mouth masks and banquets in the middle of a pandemic but it is their prerogative to spread a potentially deadly disease to their loved ones and get permanent lung damage.

My respect goes to poor Gubanova who sacrificed her whole season to protect others

 

[chasingneverland]

Oh right I forgot the Russian Figure Skating Fed is a group of complete idiots.

Fine Anna did nothing "technically" wrong, but I can't condone what she did. I'm sorry (and I mean this sincerely), but I just can't.

Medals and winning aren't always worth it and this was one of those times.

Agreed.

For the record I think the same of Liza, Sasha, and Sofia's decisions (amongst others.) None of them did anything "technically" wrong but I don't think they were the right choices. They all risked at the minimum more injury and all should have known better. (Liza has seen pneumonia derail her career once before. Sasha attempted a 3A in the short and 4 quads in the long and injured herself more at Rostelecom Cup.)

However, it isn't on Anna (or any of the others). They should never have been allowed to make that choice. Each one of them made irresponsible choices for their own health (and they aren't the only ones). (There are probably soo many more we haven't heard of because it's so ingrained in the culture.)

That isn't on Anna. You can not condone Anna's decision (I don't either for that matter) but you also shouldn't (by that same token) condone other similarly reckless decisions.

EDIT: The RusFed refused to move nationals back even a couple weeks (despite Euros being cancelled) to allow their skaters to recover. The poor decisions rest with the Fed, which isn't even capable of requiring proper maskwear. Or do you also accuse people of being selfish for not putting their mask over their nose or even face sometimes (even when others in their rink have tested positive for COVID).

Let's not pretend that Anna is alone in this or her team. Every one of her actions here has precedent and they were all made by people older than her.

 

[chasingneverland]

The only thing I can say is that it is on Anna that she refused to take the second temperature check before the FP. If it was Aliona who was reported to have done this, she would have been cursed to the depths of hell for being a diva. (Yes I am salty at the double standards)

If you think Anna isn't being vilified for this you need to take a second look.

 

[chasingneverland]

Think about this, what if Kamila gets sick from Anna's actions? What if Alina (in your icon there) gets ill? Will you think so highly of Anna's bravery then?

Kamila and Alina literally train with her and have through her entire illness.

 

[ali0125]

If it was Aliona who was reported to have done this, she would have been cursed to the depths of hell for being a diva. (Yes I am salty at the double standards)

Zhenya the same

 

[anonymoose_au]

You also can praise her for fighting through impossible odds and having a miraculous, stunning skate while also arguing that she never should have been allowed to do tha

Thing is I don't want to praise her for that, I think doing so is dangerous. I don't think it should be encouraged.

The people who think Anna's a hero, would you think Plushy was a hero if he had pushed through to compete in the singles at Sochi?

Or would it have depended on whether he'd actually succeeded or scarred the viewing public by actually paralysing himself out there?

If we praise people for doing really, really stupid things where does it end?

 

[matin calin]

Happy New Year, Russian skaters!

I think it is very evident that you are writing from an Australian perspective.

Australia, if I am not mistaken, is a country that has resorted to very far-reaching measures to curb the spread of covid. Isn't there a total travel ban imposed on all Australians and you may not even leave the country? I might be wrong, but am pretty sure that the measures taken by the Australian govt in that regard have been very ... radical, and the infection spread was thus very minimal.

With that in mind, it is understandable why you feel that absolutely no risks of transmitting coronavirus should be tolerated, and getting the virus may seem like something dreadful.

You have to keep in mind, though, that in other countries, Russia included, the attitude to the virus has been much relaxed. No one is putting the entire areas in quarantine if there is a documented case, the contact tracing is minimal or even non-existent. Masks are often neglected, restaurants are open, private parties are being thrown etc (in Moscow at least) - whilst there is massive community spread. As a result people do get sick much more frequently, but it is not seen as the end of the world. People are no longer as scared to get the virus, so the guards are off, and this is socially accepted.

I think this lax attitude is prevalent amongst not only the skaters, who are young and fit, but also the coaches in their older years (Mishin). So I think you are ascribing everyone feelings and fears that they may very well not be having at all. My impression is that covid is taken much, much more lightly in Russia. Whilst it can seem bizarre to you as an Australian, it seems pretty reasonable for me who lives in Sweden. I mean... yes coronavirus can lead to serious complications but it is not bubonic plague... You criticising so passionately Anna, RusFed etc for not being cautious enough seems, to me, a bit disproportionate.