2020-21 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating | Page 12 | Golden Skate

2020-21 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating

So to bring this back to topic...why did F/N “have to” split? I loved their Nationals performance in Greensboro. This season has been crazy unstable even for US pairs. Junior champions split. Senior champions split. Senior bronze medalists split. No wonder we never get anywhere.
I don't think they had to. But @BlissfulSynergy made a good point that Kate may need a taller partner. According to Wiki, Kate is 5'4-1/2", and Balasz is 5'9-1/2." I had a conversation about height a couple of years ago with a GS member who said that with the current requirements in the pairs field, a 7- or 8-inch difference in height was the minimum needed for safety. She seemed knowledgeable, and cited Sui and Han, with a 8-inch difference, as an example of being at the edge. Since then, I've read a translation of a Cong Han interview when he cited his challenges near the beginning of his partnership with Sui, and how he had to work very hard to become strong enough.

Some people claim Ashley C-G is too tall for pairs, period. Again according to Wiki, Tim is 7 inches taller than Ashley. So, right at the edge. Another example is Trennt Michaud, who is 5'9." Evelyn Walsh's height isn't listed on Wiki, but they seem closer in height than most current pairs. I'm a fan of both teams, and they both are national medalists. Ashley & Tim of course have been US Champions and finished in the Top Ten at Worlds 2019. That alone seems to me proof that they're competitive. The requirements for pairs have changed a lot since Tai & Randy. But I think there's an argument to be made that every skater, and every pair, is bound to have challenges and it's a matter of how they maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. Still, it's amazing how widespread the perception is that a 10-or-12-inch height difference is ideal or even necessary, in terms of looks as well as performing the required elements. One last note -- when Natalya Zabiiako/Alexander Enbert retired last year, she said that it's too hard to find a partner tall enough for her, and she had to have someone as tall as Alexander. She's 5'5" and he's 6'2", a 9" difference. I'd say some coaches are firmer on what's required than others may be.

It's not uncommon for a successful junior partnership to outgrow each other. Even Charlie White said in an interview that he and Meryl were fortunate in their families, in the fact that they lived close to each other growing up so they didn't have to leave home to train together, and that "nobody grew too tall for anybody else."

I also enjoyed seeing Kate and Balasz at Greensboro, but they struggled pretty badly in the ISP competitions in the fall. I have a theory, only valid in my own head -- and I'm not stating it as an argument. I read interviews where Balasz said that he returned to the US early, from time with his family in Hungary back in March, because he wanted to be sure and be back in Colorado for training, in case he wasn't allowed to fly back at the planned time. In a different interview, I read that Kate's mother wouldn't let her fly to Colorado around the same time, for fear that Kate would get stuck there and not be able to come home to Kentucky. So that may have left Balasz at a loss, having difficulty training for 2 or 2 1/2 months while not having his partner there to train with, even off ice. On a gossipy note, check out Tarah Kayne's IG.
 
I haven't followed Jr Pairs much but I just watched the virtual qualifying competition and really like Smirnova/Siianytsia!

The requirements for pairs have changed a lot since Tai & Randy.
I can hear Dick Button's comments now about how much harder the elements are when the pairs skaters are close to the same size and that made me appreciate Tai and Randy all the more. I think that's one of the reasons I like to watch Cain/Leduc. I was actually surprised to learn that there is that much height difference because I see them as being closer in height.
 
Maybe I've built them up too much in my head but, I am picking Brandon and Alexa to win this event. I am not a huge follower of pairs and I just hope the top pair skates well and wins without controversary.
 
I haven't followed Jr Pairs much but I just watched the virtual qualifying competition and really like Smirnova/Siianytsia!
I watched too, and was captivated by young Martins & Bedard. IMHO they are enough to melt the hearts of all but the most cynical of skating fans among us. The expressions on Isabelle’s face as she skates past the camera—priceless. This is why I love skating!
 
Maybe I've built them up too much in my head but, I am picking Brandon and Alexa to win this event. I am not a huge follower of pairs and I just hope the top pair skates well and wins without controversary.
They are my favorite US Pair team and I worry I’ve built them up in my head too much as well! I think I like them for 2 reasons, 1) They can do all the tricks and don’t really have “weak” elements. I enjoy Jessica and Brian but always hold my breath on the side by sides. I like Ashley and Tim but always hold my breath on their lifts. And 2) I told my friend at Nationals that Brandon and Alexa should pair up, during the long program warm up. I had no insider knowledge of anything and didn’t think it would truly happen but I think it makes them my sentimental favorites.
All that said, while their first and only in person competition was quite impressive, it was just that, their first and only. With that skate and placement comes expectations and pressure. They are both seasoned, top competitors so hopefully they are able to deal with these but we will have to wait and see.
I do truly believe if they skate how they did at Skate America, they will be the winners. They have many strong elements and the judges (both National and International) seem to really like Alexa.
I am very interested to watch the practices and I hope Peacock shows them again. It’s always interesting to me to see how well people practice vs compete. Just 2 more weeks to go!
 
I watched too, and was captivated by young Martins & Bedard. IMHO they are enough to melt the hearts of all but the most cynical of skating fans among us. The expressions on Isabelle’s face as she skates past the camera—priceless. This is why I love skating!

They don't melt my heart with that lack of talent. They aren't going anywhere. They should quit while ahead.
 
I watched too, and was captivated by young Martins & Bedard. IMHO they are enough to melt the hearts of all but the most cynical of skating fans among us. The expressions on Isabelle’s face as she skates past the camera—priceless. This is why I love skating!

Oh, yes. I haven't watched them yet, but now I will. :)

I haven't followed Jr Pairs much but I just watched the virtual qualifying competition and really like Smirnova/Siianytsia!


I can hear Dick Button's comments now about how much harder the elements are when the pairs skaters are close to the same size and that made me appreciate Tai and Randy all the more. I think that's one of the reasons I like to watch Cain/Leduc. I was actually surprised to learn that there is that much height difference because I see them as being closer in height.
Ashley and Tim are closest to my heart. I like your reasoning, and what you said will make me think of that next time I watch them. (Somehow I never heard that particular comment from Uncle Dick.) C-G/L's synchronicity, unison, and matching long lines just thrill me and remind me of Tai and Randy. I also really like that their height and qualities mean that they're showing us something different among the pairs. I like to see a diversity of styles.

I think I'm trucking off right now to check out Martins & Bedard, and Smirnova/Silanytsia. Are S/S the pair who live in Montana or something? Unheard of!
 
They are my favorite US Pair team and I worry I’ve built them up in my head too much as well! I think I like them for 2 reasons, 1) They can do all the tricks and don’t really have “weak” elements. I enjoy Jessica and Brian but always hold my breath on the side by sides. I like Ashley and Tim but always hold my breath on their lifts. And 2) I told my friend at Nationals that Brandon and Alexa should pair up, during the long program warm up. I had no insider knowledge of anything and didn’t think it would truly happen but I think it makes them my sentimental favorites.
Well predicted! You deserve to be proud for that observation. What is stunning to me is that Alexa and Brandon already look better matched technically than either ever did with their former partners. Having said that, A&B don't actually do anything for me emotionally, and to me they just seem to be going through the motions as far as the music goes. And because music and emotional transference are the most important qualities for me in figure skating, they don't touch my heart. But I can certainly see why other people are excited about them. And I'm happy for them, because they both seem to be so happy to be skating together and getting this second chance.

Here's a question for everyone: Is it a good thing to be holding one's breath while watching a pair, whether it's on the jumps or the lifts or something else? Is it fun to be that emotionally engaged and invested ... or not fun?


All that said, while their first and only in person competition was quite impressive, it was just that, their first and only. With that skate and placement comes expectations and pressure. They are both seasoned, top competitors so hopefully they are able to deal with these but we will have to wait and see.
I do truly believe if they skate how they did at Skate America, they will be the winners. They have many strong elements and the judges (both National and International) seem to really like Alexa.
I am very interested to watch the practices and I hope Peacock shows them again. It’s always interesting to me to see how well people practice vs compete. Just 2 more weeks to go!

Yes! I can't wait! I'm so happy that they're getting a chance to compete, and happy for us to get to watch!
 
Maybe I've built them up too much in my head but, I am picking Brandon and Alexa to win this event. I am not a huge follower of pairs and I just hope the top pair skates well and wins without controversary.
I also really like what I've seen of Alexa and Brandon. I like them better together than I did either of them with their former partners... at least what I've seen so far.

However, I hope all the pairs skate so brilliantly that the outcome can be credibly attributed to the judges' personal preferences, and we're arguing about the outcome for months.
 
I also really like what I've seen of Alexa and Brandon. I like them better together than I did either of them with their former partners... at least what I've seen so far.

However, I hope all the pairs skate so brilliantly that the outcome can be credibly attributed to the judges' personal preferences, and we're arguing about the outcome for months.
Oooh, I like that! I will join you in that hope. :party2::party2::points:

I'm bleary-eyed today because I stayed up way late (early) re-watching the 2018 US pairs free skates. I've been meaning to watch them again, because I think nbcgold is going away in a couple of days. Brooke Castile did the color commentary for the event, for IceNetwork. She is wonderful to listen to. She was mostly quiet during the skates, and then the things she said about each pair were helpful and positive.

#1 Surprise ... although like nearly everyone else, I've been talking about how well-matched Alexa and Brandon are technically, re-watching Haven/Brandon and Alexa/Chris made me really miss those partnerships. Both teams skated with somewhat understated but powerful emotional sensitivity to their partners. Maybe Alexa/Brandon will develop some of that over time. For me, at present, they're just skating. It was funny, I also enjoyed seeing again how Chris always went for the jumps; he was gung-ho in a sweet way. I still have great hopes that we'll see Haven as a pairs skater again with a new partner - her delicacy, artistry and joy really lit up the elements that she did well, especially lifts and throws.


@Ross74 said:
I was actually surprised to learn that there is that much height difference because I see them as being closer in height.

#2. My impression is the same as yours, so I paid close attention to Ashley & Tim's height. When they're skating, they do look closer in height than 7" apart. I think either Tim bends his knees more, or his legs are often further apart when I catch them at a point where I can compare. Or something. There's a lot of "up and down" in their skating. As with most skaters, especially the more interesting ones.

So I watched the 2018 medal ceremony at the end, whereas I hadn't bothered before. And when they're standing still side by side, Tim does indeed look taller as compared to Ashley than it appears when they're skating together. It looks like a 6 or 7" difference is about right. She came up to around his chin level or a bit more, as Deanna did to Nate. Tarah fits comfortably and spaciously under Danny's chin, and Alexa is shorter still in comparison to Chris.

For what it's worth. I love Ashley/Tim's skating and I still will, even if Wiki is wrong and there's only 5 or 6 inches between them! When they're at their best, skating fast and powerfully and claiming all the space with their long limbs, their lifts look beautiful to me, and their 3twist is amazing, especially when compared to their first years.
 
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Well predicted! You deserve to be proud for that observation. What is stunning to me is that Alexa and Brandon already look better matched technically than either ever did with their former partners. Having said that, A&B don't actually do anything for me emotionally, and to me they just seem to be going through the motions as far as the music goes. And because music and emotional transference are the most important qualities for me in figure skating, they don't touch my heart. But I can certainly see why other people are excited about them. And I'm happy for them, because they both seem to be so happy to be skating together and getting this second chance.
I am willing to give them a pass on the emotional connection at this point because they are a new team. I hope it will develop at some point, but if the keep landing their stuff, I’m going to be thrilled. I think what I liked most about them is they seemed so happy to be skating. I watched the last few seasons with their previous partners and there just wasn’t the same joy, even after good skates. It’s almost like it’s put a second wind into each of their skating!


Here's a question for everyone: Is it a good thing to be holding one's breath while watching a pair, whether it's on the jumps or the lifts or something else? Is it fun to be that emotionally engaged and invested ... or not fun?
I ALWAYS watch pairs with my breath held, it is beautiful and terrifying at the same time. When I was speaking about the other two pairs I more meant that those elements are more often than not a struggle for them. I used to enjoy Ashley and Tim more than I do now.i feel in the past season or two their skating has Become more labored. But I still think they are a good US Pair.
Yes! I can't wait! I'm so happy that they're getting a chance to compete, and happy for us to get to watch!
This is the most exciting part for me. I am a skating junkie through and through. I have watched most of what has been available this year From other countries, but I have missed watching US Skaters. I went to Nationals in 2020 and was at every event and most practices unless they overlapped. I just love to watch skating and to think we might get a whole week and a half of practices and competitions, it’s like a late Christmas present!
 
... I'm bleary-eyed today because I stayed up way late (early) re-watching the 2018 US pairs free skates. I've been meaning to watch them again, because I think nbcgold is going away in a couple of days. Brooke Castile did the color commentary for the event, for IceNetwork. She is wonderful to listen to. She was mostly quiet during the skates, and then the things she said about each pair were helpful and positive. ...

FYI, 2018 Nats video (senior, junior, novice, intermediate, juvenile) is available on Fan Zone, in case you want to keep it in mind for future re-watching.

Although it does not have commentary, I believe.
I get that you wanted to enjoy Castile's commentary again before it is no longer available on NBC Gold.

But for me, it is good news that Fan Zone lately seems to be quietly adding some competition video from past seasons that I think originally was supposed to be only on NBC Gold and not on Fan Zone.



I watched too, and was captivated by young Martins & Bedard. IMHO they are enough to melt the hearts of all but the most cynical of skating fans among us. The expressions on Isabelle’s face as she skates past the camera—priceless. This is why I love skating!

I think I'm trucking off right now to check out Martins & Bedard, and Smirnova/Silanytsia. Are S/S the pair who live in Montana or something? Unheard of!

The expressive Timmy Chapman is another junior pair skater who caught my eye in Greensboro.

His new partner this season and he are training mates of Martins/Bedard.

Smirnova/Siianytsia train in Minnesota, AFAIK.
(But I can't rule out the possibility that they also have some kind of Montana connection???)
 
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FYI, 2018 Nats video (senior, junior, novice, intermediate, juvenile) is available on Fan Zone, in case you want to keep it in mind for future re-watching.

Although it does not have commentary, I believe.
I get that you wanted to enjoy Castile's commentary again before it is no longer available on NBC Gold.

But for me, it is good news that Fan Zone lately seems to be quietly adding some competition video from past seasons that I think originally was supposed to be only on NBC Gold and not on Fan Zone.
Oh, thank you, I didn't know that, it makes me very happy. Yes, I'll miss Brooke, but it's wonderful that we'll still be able to view it. Good news, indeed.
 
I am willing to give them a pass on the emotional connection at this point because they are a new team. I hope it will develop at some point, but if the keep landing their stuff, I’m going to be thrilled. I think what I liked most about them is they seemed so happy to be skating. I watched the last few seasons with their previous partners and there just wasn’t the same joy, even after good skates. It’s almost like it’s put a second wind into each of their skating!

I've always said what I like about Alexa/Brandon match-up is that they're so happy. To find each other, to have come together so quickly, to have the same work ethic, to have a second chance. And that second wind is so true ... I think they're lighter, because they're relieved; Alexa especially was always worried about Chris, and I think Brandon about Haven too.

I ALWAYS watch pairs with my breath held, it is beautiful and terrifying at the same time.
Absolutely! I think many of the pairs girls love that sensation of being thrown and flying through the air, so I live that joy vicariously, and remember when I danced in college and was one of the liftees. :)


This is the most exciting part for me. I am a skating junkie through and through. I have watched most of what has been available this year From other countries, but I have missed watching US Skaters. I went to Nationals in 2020 and was at every event and most practices unless they overlapped. I just love to watch skating and to think we might get a whole week and a half of practices and competitions, it’s like a late Christmas present!
Yes! Me, too.

I love watching the practices, especially live. The first time I went to a whole week-end of competition, SA 2013, I loved the practices as much as the competitions. Still do at GPs, but it's trickier for me to attend practices at nationals. You're getting me excited about trying harder to get to practices, though, next time.
 
@skylark, to follow-up on our earlier conversation in this thread about the long ago partner splits and pairing of Meno/Sand. As I recall, both Jenni and Todd were very sensitive to the feelings of their respective partners. I believe they talked long and hard about their developing love for each other, and about their mutual vision to enter into a pairs skating partnership. As well, they probably took a lot of care to try and let their partners down in as forthright and fair a way as possible. But of course, the entire situation was awkward and surely hurtful to their former partners. It took love and a lot of courage and character by Jenni and Todd to fly by faith in what they hoped to build together (then on the ice) and later in their personal and professional lives as a couple.

They both spoke to John Nicks about the depth of their vision to skate together, as well as their love for each other, which was obvious by that point. Possibly Nicks was instrumental in helping them smooth things over with U.S. fed and with their former partners. I don't recall for sure, but most likely, Jenni and Todd both bucked up the courage to speak directly and honestly to their former partners, which has got to be a difficult conversation to have, especially face-to-face. A lot of former partners don't find out that way.

Jenni and Todd are class, grace and substance, all the way! And these are qualities they've always exuded.
 
I think they're lighter, because they're relieved; Alexa especially was always worried about Chris, and I think Brandon about Haven too.

For sure. It's so important to not have those worries about their former partners' injuries in the backs of their minds while performing. This new and burgeoning partnership has been special for Alexa & Brandon in so many ways.
 
I told my friend at Nationals that Brandon and Alexa should pair up, during the long program warm up. I had no insider knowledge of anything and didn’t think it would truly happen

Wow. I would never have thought that in my wildest dreams at that point. There was no indication that Chris & Alexa would split their partnership and she would continue skating. There was a sense among some fans that Chris was unhappy competing, but still no inkling of what was to eventually transpire at 4CCs.

As well, Brandon was extremely loyal to Haven. And during Nationals, even though Haven & Brandon didn't perform well, that was no indication they might split. I thought they might regroup and find another coaching venue, due to the awkward and distracting situation at their Florida training rink. They actually had a very good season, winning two bronze medals on the GP and coming full circle with their popular Lion King program (originally from 2014-2015 season). It turned out to be their swan song, fittingly.


It's surely also their low marks from U.S. judges and the sense that they had gone as far as they could go together (partly due to Haven's long road back from injury and continued inconsistency on the jumps). They were probably assessing things immediately after Nationals, having not figured in post-season assignments. I don't think there was any doubt that a change of coaching venue had to also be in their thoughts.

For me, it wasn't until 4CCs and Chris' retirement announcement coupled with Alexa's determination to continue skating, that the partnering speculation began. I immediately ruled out Brandon. But my next thought was how much the situation was the perfect storm since Haven & Brandon hadn't performed well at Nationals, and they were probably looking to make changes. So I immediately thought and voiced that it had to be Brandon who could be the perfect partner for Alexa under the circumstances. I had no idea though that my prediction would turn out to be accurate. I didn't base it upon thinking about their physical attributes. It's just that Brandon's size and partnering experience and possible availability made him the best option among veteran U.S. men pairs skaters.

When I saw Alexa & Brandon practicing off-ice for the first time over the summer months, I was immediately struck by their mutual coordination and athleticism, which has only gotten better as their partnership has progressed. What few fans probably realized was the fact that Chris & Brandon were old friends from their Colorado pairs training days. And that Brandon had accompanied Chris & Alexa on their first date. Realizing that they were all three old friends made the Brandon/Alexa partnership even more appealing in that they didn't have to go through any awkward getting to know each other phase. And trust issues were probably easier to cement right away.

I had always looked at Haven/Brandon and Alexa/Chris as rivals. But they apparently were always friends and competitors who respected and rooted for each other, even as they competed against each other. And now, a new and exciting chapter has begun. :)
 
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I haven't followed Jr Pairs much but I just watched the virtual qualifying competition and really like Smirnova/Siianytsia!


I can hear Dick Button's comments now about how much harder the elements are when the pairs skaters are close to the same size and that made me appreciate Tai and Randy all the more. I think that's one of the reasons I like to watch Cain/Leduc. I was actually surprised to learn that there is that much height difference because I see them as being closer in height.
Tai and Randy were/are amazing. They stayed together and had what, a 50 year career? Tai and I tweet at each other sometimes. I’m star struck. I would pay money to watch her stroke around the ice.
 
I want to love US pairs. But this constant partner swapping just makes me tired. I thought I was safe loving Chris and Alexa ...but no. So from last years Nationals we have lost the #1 Junior AND Senior pair as well as the #3 and #5 Senior pair. How can we possibly expect to get anywhere in the world standings like this? I’m not suggesting pairs stay together and be miserable or that Chris shouldn’t have retired. I don’t want anyone to be miserable, But as a fan it is incredibly frustrating. I rewatched Chris and Alexas SP from Greensboro tonight and heard Tara talking about how they were star quality and the best team in the US and it just hurt my heart. At least if I love singles skaters I only have to worry about one person quitting/getting injured.
And please someone catch me up...was watching Junior pairs qualifying and saw Voigt/Finister..does anyone know who they are? Google was completely unhelpful. I know Kate has a brother Chase who skates, but he competes in men’s singles.
 
Well predicted! You deserve to be proud for that observation. What is stunning to me is that Alexa and Brandon already look better matched technically than either ever did with their former partners. Having said that, A&B don't actually do anything for me emotionally, and to me they just seem to be going through the motions as far as the music goes. And because music and emotional transference are the most important qualities for me in figure skating, they don't touch my heart. But I can certainly see why other people are excited about them. And I'm happy for them, because they both seem to be so happy to be skating together and getting this second chance.
They do nothing for me emotionally either Im afraid.

Here's a question for everyone: Is it a good thing to be holding one's breath while watching a pair, whether it's on the jumps or the lifts or something else? Is it fun to be that emotionally engaged and invested ... or not fun?

YES it is fun. If I don’t care...NO fun. You can get pain, or you can get really amazing joy (me with Chris and Alexa in Greensboro. I actually said a prayer for them before they skated - they’re religious people and I just wanted to cover all bases - and I went and threw their stuffies, and every step back up to my seat I was saying “Thank you God” out loud. People were looking at me like I had lost my mind. Fortunately for me I don’t care. I told them about it at the FOFS breakfast and they seemed happy.

Yes! I can't wait! I'm so happy that they're getting a chance to compete, and happy for us to get to watch!
 
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