2021 Worlds are still on

[Minz]

Well ideally with a bubble the athletes would arrive almost a month before the event so that they can both quarantine and have training time, like with the Australian Open.

This is hugely expensive though, so unfortunately the ISU has to go with a "cross your fingers" approach.

It is insanely expensive and that would require the ISU to make a decision like today, so that visas, travel insurance and other little things can be figured out. And honestly, the Australian Open is a much more popular event then the Figure Skating World Championships. The payoff for spending that much money might be more worth it for the Australian Open vs the World Championships. If they were to do a bubble properly they’d need to postpone Worlds at least by a few weeks so they can sort this out. And while a semi bubble worked for US Nationals, that is a much smaller event. Even a semi bubble for the World championships would require a lot of sponsors, funding and cooperation from the federations, coaches and athletes. If one person screws up, the whole thing is over. But a ”cross your fingers“ approach could be really dangerous and it is extremely risky. If they just let people waltz in and “hope for the best”, mark my words, there WILL be problems. At the absolute least, they should test the athletes when they get there, and require masks to be worn when not skating, and obviously, no spectators.

 

[Supernovaimplosion]

This isn't even like the US nats because they were tested upon arrival. What's the point of a test if you get on a plane immediately after and interact with loads of people? This isn't a bubble. Its honestly a lot worse than I thought
Edit: US nats wasn't a bubble either. False negatives can and do happen
Sporting events could be held, but this ain't it.

 

[CoyoteChris]

This isn't even like the US nats because they were tested upon arrival. What's the point of a test if you get on a plane immediately after and interact with loads of people? This isn't a bubble. Its honestly a lot worse than I thought
Edit: US nats wasn't a bubble either. False negatives can and do happen
Sporting events could be held, but this ain't it.

Its an illusion of safety. No covid test ever can say you DONT have the virus. It MIGHT say you do. There are false positives and false negatives. I do not know the medical particulars of Paige Rydberg arriving at US Nats and testing positive. Was her second test negative? Was it proven she developed antibodies and T cells? When was she last tested? What were the quality of her masks? While watching the virtual "tests" trials for US nats, I saw a very famous US coach who I admire with their mask pulled down so they could yell at the skater....

 

[ice coverage]

This isn't even like the US nats because they were tested upon arrival. What's the point of a test if you get on a plane immediately after and interact with loads of people? ...

The safety plan for 2021 Worlds *does* include testing upon arrival of skaters and officials.

What are the health and safety measures in place to protect the Skaters and Officials at the event?

... Among several safety measures, Covid-19 tests are mandatory before arrival, upon arrival and during the Championships week as well as a daily health screening.

https://isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2020-21/championships-32/announcements-96/25494-wfsc2021-general-qa-media/file

A difference between U.S. Nationals and Worlds seems to be the requirements for the limited number of media attending in person.
The media at Worlds will not officially be part of the bubble. For example, they not will be staying at the official hotel, which is right next to the arena. (Is it possible that the official hotel is not large enough to have room for media? Non-local media are given the choice of two other hotels.)
Whereas at Skate America and U.S. Nats, the few media on site were officially part of the bubble, and needed to meet all the requirements of the bubble -- including staying at the official hotel, adjacent to the arena.

ETA:

I forgot to say that some good news re media at 2021 Worlds is that even for the "very limited number" in the arena, "There will be no person-to-person access with athletes, coaches or officials. All interactions with athletes and coaches will be conducted virtually." Meaning virtual mixed zone, virtual press conferences, and virtual one-on-one opportunities.
Same was true for Skate America and for U.S. Nationals.​

 

[Supernovaimplosion]

The safety plan for 2021 Worlds *does* include testing upon arrival of skaters and officials.

What are the health and safety measures in place to protect the Skaters and Officials at the event? ​

​

... Among several safety measures, Covid-19 tests are mandatory before arrival, upon arrival and during the Championships week as well as a daily health screening.​

​

https://isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2020-21/championships-32/announcements-96/25494-wfsc2021-general-qa-media/file

A difference between U.S. Nats and Worlds seems to be the requirements for the limited number of media attending in person.
The media at Worlds will not officially be part of the bubble. For example, they not will be staying at the official hotel, which is right next to the arena. (Is it possible that the official hotel is not large enough to have room for media? Non-local media are given the choice of two other hotels.)
Whereas at Skate America and U.S. Nats, the few media on site were officially part of the bubble, and needed to meet all the requirements of the bubble -- including staying at the official hotel, adjacent to the arena.

I looked but didn't see it in the announcement they posted. They only say you need a negative test prior to arrival to register. They don't say anything about any other testing? I'm still confused due to the contradictions now.
Edit: I was looking at this announcement. Is your source newer than mine?

 

[Amei]

Its an illusion of safety. No covid test ever can say you DONT have the virus. It MIGHT say you do. There are false positives and false negatives. I do not know the medical particulars of Paige Rydberg arriving at US Nats and testing positive. Was her second test negative? Was it proven she developed antibodies and T cells? When was she last tested? What were the quality of her masks? While watching the virtual "tests" trials for US nats, I saw a very famous US coach who I admire with their mask pulled down so they could yell at the skater....

And I've seen studies about most masks being used for "virus protection" being an illusion of safety.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

The safety plan for 2021 Worlds *does* include testing upon arrival of skaters and officials.

What are the health and safety measures in place to protect the Skaters and Officials at the event? ​

​

... Among several safety measures, Covid-19 tests are mandatory before arrival, upon arrival and during the Championships week as well as a daily health screening.​

​

https://isu.org/docman-documents-links/isu-files/event-documents/figure-skating-4/2020-21/championships-32/announcements-96/25494-wfsc2021-general-qa-media/file

A difference between U.S. Nats and Worlds seems to be the requirements for the limited number of media attending in person.
The media at Worlds will not officially be part of the bubble. For example, they not will be staying at the official hotel, which is right next to the arena. (Is it possible that the official hotel is not large enough to have room for media? Non-local media are given the choice of two other hotels.)
Whereas at Skate America and U.S. Nats, the few media on site were officially part of the bubble, and needed to meet all the requirements of the bubble -- including staying at the official hotel, adjacent to the arena.

The official hotels, though large, don't seem sufficient to assure individual bedrooms to single skaters, which I find really problematic. More than not having a complete bubble. I am not sure a bubble is that useful after all. Not going out in "dangerous places" of course is useful (necessary!), but a confined bubble would rather rise the risks of contamination if one person happens to be contaminated (I mean, really contaminated, which is linked to positive testing but not synonymous). Not a running in a park with gloves on and a mask at hand (but public transportation does bring risks, sorry).
Plus there's the problem of dietary special needs, though I'm sure the organisers are doing their best. Not addressing them will result in lower immunity for the athletes.
I really wonder why nobody propose a C, D & K vitamins and zinc blood test, which, from so many surveys about various infectious diseases including CoViD 19, give an idea of a person's likeliness to develop a viral charge susceptible of contaminating others (and be in danger) in case of contact with the virus. Though it may not suffice when a skater has just had an exhausting practice or competitive program, at that moment he must be even more thoroughly protected. And if ever attendance is allowed, at least that they can't access the places where athletes go, this seems to have been a huge problem with Russian championships.
Also, a no-plush policy would spare an army of flower-kids, I love it but it is not a good idea right now, the less people rink-side the better. One could even conceive virtual plush-sending.
Ah, and that open doors and windows policy at Challenge Cup is likely to bring an "epidemic" of coughing and snorting which may disqualify a good many skaters! Ventilation is good but too much is counter-productive.

 

[Minz]

Also, a no-plush policy would spare an army of flower-kids, I love it but it is not a good idea right now, the less people rink-side the better. One could even conceive virtual plush-sending.

Just don’t have spectators at all. Otherwise it renders any ”bubble“ in place pretty much useless

 

[ice coverage]

I looked but didn't see it in the announcement they posted. They only say you need a negative test prior to arrival to register. They don't say anything about any other testing? I'm still confused due to the contradictions now.

I honestly do not see any contradictions.
AFAIK, the document to which I linked above was new as of Feb 8 (yesterday), and it says that testing is "mandatory before arrival, upon arrival and during the Championships week."

I think that you are referring to the event announcement, which was revised on Feb 5.

The section of the announcement pertaining to COVID (on p. 9) refers to the "Event Health Regulations" -- without spelling out all the requirements of the regulations.
(And I see no statement anywhere in the announcement that rules out additional requirements for subsequent testing after the pre-arrival test.)

19. Covid-19
... The Event Health Regulations and information sent to the ISU Members must be strictly followed by every Event Attendee. ...​

The section of the announcement pertaining merely to registration (on p. 7) says that the Event Health Regulations must be followed AND that a negative pre-arrival test is required. (Again, there is nothing that says that the pre-arrival test is the only testing requirement in the regulations.)

10. REGISTRATION
PCR Testing prior to registration
All event attendees must follow the Event Health Regulations and must make sure to have a negative Covid-19 PCR test result prior to arriving in Stockholm.
... All Competitors and Judges will be required to present their passport ... prior to receiving accreditation, as well as the negative Covid-19 PCR Test result(s). ...​

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

Just don’t have spectators at all. Otherwise it renders any ”bubble“ in place pretty much useless

This would be likely to be more prudent (particularly with the more contagious variants, a lower number of virus can contaminate a person) but I think it should be studied practically, with models, air convection etc, should a large proportion of the attendance be emissive of virus, however unlikely it is. If the shape of the Globe allows safely some attendance, why not, or it may allow it only for competition and not for rehearsal to let enough time for air renewal, etc.
Safety measures have to be carefully studied to avoid contamination, because the useless ones 1) divert people from the most useful ones, 2) produce anxiety which lower immunity, 3) lower other people's confidence in policymakers, which often result in non-compliance or excessive scepticism towards the disease and the risks of propagation, human mind tending to be binary. This is in my opinion one of the major causes of the virus spreading in the world, which could/should have been adverted. But this is another subject.
An announcement of forbidding attendance or of allowing it with such and such limitations and measures, with an abstract of the method used to take the decision, would give a huge positive sign. But there I am dreaming...
Stockholm 2021 have already announced basic measures, and additional real hand-washing facilities seemed to me a real plus, it is so much more efficient on bare skin.

 

[bookofcharms]

What will be the outcome if a skater tests positive mid event? What impact would that have on their room mate, coach, close contacts etc? I’m quite curious about what the position on this will be

The issue with a no quarantine event is that the safety of it will rely a lot on an honesty policy of how safely all the athletes travelled and interacted prior to the event, so they don’t develop into being infectious later mid-event.

As we’ve seen, there’s really different standards. The US Nats also had a policy of not allowing close contacts of positives to attend. Although there’s no way of enforcing that at Worlds.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

What will be the outcome if a skater tests positive mid event? What impact would that have on their room mate, coach, close contacts etc? I’m quite curious about what the position on this will be

The issue with a no quarantine event is that the safety of it will rely a lot on an honesty policy of how safely all the athletes travelled and interacted prior to the event, so they don’t develop into being infectious later mid-event.

As we’ve seen, there’s really different standards. The US Nats also had a policy of not allowing close contacts of positives to attend. Although there’s no way of enforcing that at Worlds.

This is why athletes' safety must be considered individually, not as a group.

 

[bookofcharms]

One thing is that many countries will not allow entrance to travellers with a current positive test.

So if a skater, coach, chaperone etc from such a nation tests positive, then they will be required to remain in Sweden for the duration of the illness until a negative test is registered. And that then places them under the care of the Swedish health system.

That could be difficult, expensive and stressful, especially once the rest of the delegation packs up and leaves them in Sweden. I suppose that will be an issue for the federation as to how they can help their skater/coach/chaperone.

Does anyone know if this issue has occurred in other sports?

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

One thing is that many countries will not allow entrance to travellers with a current positive test.

So if a skater, coach, chaperone etc from such a nation tests positive, then they will be required to remain in Sweden for the duration of the illness until a negative test is registered. And that then places them under the care of the Swedish health system.

That could be difficult, expensive and stressful, especially once the rest of the delegation packs up and leaves them in Sweden. I suppose that will be an issue for the federation as to how they can help their skater/coach/chaperone.

Does anyone know if this issue has occurred in other sports?

I don't know Swedish rules but in France, though some countries can be late to pay, non-European (EU, EEA etc) visitors must prove a private insurance to get a visa, and care to uninsured foreign citizens are billed to them, then to their countries if they cannot pay.
I wouldn't be surprised if for international sports events in the CoViD context, each country federation were held responsible in case an athlete should have to stay in the organising country for health or quarantine motives.

 

[bookofcharms]

I’ve seen posted around the place that the protocols have been released for Worlds.

The event seems to be planned pretty much as usual, with athletes to arrive the day before practices start but with a negative test required before travelling.

Oh and a compulsory waiver to be signed which relieves the ISU of any rona related liability for the event.

So it is indeed a ‘cross fingers and hope’ approach. But I was expecting that.

 

[Minz]

I’ve seen posted around the place that the protocols have been released for Worlds.

The event seems to be planned pretty much as usual, with athletes to arrive the day before practices start but with a negative test required before travelling.

Oh and a compulsory waiver to be signed which relieves the ISU of any rona related liability for the event.

So it is indeed a ‘cross fingers and hope’ approach. But I was expecting that.

So pretty much nothing. One of the biggest places of contact will be the airports where thousands of people travel and touch surfaces. There’s no guarentee that someone won’t get Covid on the way there. And this waiver is pretty much saying that the ISU doesn’t want to deal with it.

In this case, “cross your fingers and hope for the best” is like walking into a lion’s den and hoping that you won’t get eaten by the lion.

 

[bookofcharms]

It’s an interesting contrast to the situation of some of the Toronto skaters who, based on what I’ve seen on Instagram, can’t even get a hair cut from a salon at the moment.

Interested to see if any feds will have any comment on the protocols. But it seems that if they want spots for Worlds they have no choice but to send their athletes.

 

[CoyoteChris]

And I've seen studies about most masks being used for "virus protection" being an illusion of safety.

Very true. As far as I know, Germany is the only country to mandate quality masks.

Germany Mandates Medical-Grade Masks

Germany’s strict requirements are provoking discussions of enacting similar measures throughout Europe.

www.forbes.com

Bandanas, pull ups, junk rags...some of these may actually do more harm than good. Evan Potus cant keep his rag from slipping below his nose.
A good fitting N95 3M (there are quite a few types) with a surgical mask over the top is the best. You want to protect yourself and others. The problem now is that a certain Asian country has gotten very good at counterfeiting. Many WA state Hospitals got caught......so it is hard to tell what is real. I still have some N100 3Ms left over from the 2009 Pandemic...they are out of date so their electrostatic charge is gone, but they fit oh so tight and are very comfortable.....(The USFS mask is sketchy IMHO but can be used to cover the vent on a 3M Mask.")

 

[Winnie_20]

It’s an interesting contrast to the situation of some of the Toronto skaters who, based on what I’ve seen on Instagram, can’t even get a hair cut from a salon at the moment.

The Netherlands are organizing the Challenge Cup in two weeks' time. I can tell you, nobody here has legally been getting any haircuts here for quite some time now, and won't until March at least.
But it *is* possible to organize events in bubbles, even when the country is in lockdown (our stores are closed, except as of this week they are allowed to run clock&collect points; restaurants are only allowed to do take-out, businesses like hairdressers are closed.
Oh yeah, and we also have a curfew until March!

Still, the ISU and KNSB are running a bubble in Heerenveen, and CC will be in a bubble (nobody is allowed to go anywhere other than the hotel, the bus and the arena... but then, the shops are closed, anyway!)
... and right now there's a lot of talk about a special bubble for a possible Dutch championship speed skating on outdoor ice (yes, we're having an actual cold spell in which ice skating outside may actually be a thing again for a few days second half of this week!).

Bubbles can work. We have proof right here. I think many skaters and coaches will be eyeing CC, which with the current start lists is actually a pretty big event!

 

[bookofcharms]

Only Worlds won’t be a ‘bubble’ if everyone turns up the day before it starts and just goes to practice.

True bubbles do work. Only there won’t be a true bubble at worlds.