2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[PyeongChang2018]

Hey! I'm truly not meaning to drum up drama and speculation into their private lives and maybe this has already been discussed, but I just watched the press conferences between Zagitova and Medvedeva and the tension between the two surprised me very much (see the last couple of minutes re: the team results https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4dQQev3490). I for one would love to see the two vying for more titles against each other, as they are both remarkable athletes. Anyway, this is new to me and I can only wonder what it's like for them to train alongside each other. Perhaps it's an unfair judgment on my part but I can't imagine Sambo 70 is the most positive working environment.

 

[chasingneverland]

Except she has never won ANY major INTERNATIONAL title... you know the ones with at least a modicum of unbiased judging.
I’m not saying she couldn’t, just that she hasn’t.

Sasha also hasn't - not at the senior level. Aliona is the ONLY one that has at least in the last two year and at least of those with a chance at a medal. And other than her meltdown at JGPF she hasn't finished off the podium and has NEVER lost in international competition in the FS as a senior. I'm curious which competitions you're referring to?

 

[Adjesusluvsu]

Hey! I'm truly not meaning to drum up drama and speculation into their private lives and maybe this has already been discussed, but I just watched the press conferences between Zagitova and Medvedeva and the tension between the two surprised me very much (see the last couple of minutes re: the team results https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4dQQev3490). I for one would love to see the two vying for more titles against each other, as they are both remarkable athletes. Anyway, this is new to me and I can only wonder what it's like for them to train alongside each other. Perhaps it's an unfair judgment on my part but I can't imagine Sambo 70 is the most positive working environment.

Hi! I will note that we had about 5-10 pages about this subject in the past week, and there are lots of perspectives in the pages before 880. I hope that gives you what you need!

 

[alexocfp]

Hi! I will note that we had about 5-10 pages about this subject in the past week, and there are lots of perspectives in the pages before 880. I hope that gives you what you need!

Kamila hitting the 4S in practice refocused us all! Haha

 

[chasingneverland]

I'm not sure what you mean by that bolded part. Are you implying international judges aren't willing to give Anna good scores?
Scherbakova was placed first in the FS at EVERY major INTERNATIONAL competition she's attended last year. Despite her having falls and making major errors, international judges did put her in the first place.

The reason she wasn't winning against Aliona was because of the UNFAIR ADVANTAGE Aliona had in the SP.
International judging was not the problem. In fact, at European championships judges gave similar PCS to Anna and Aliona (only a point difference), and similar GOEs.

I agree with all of this except for the claim it's an unfair advantage. I DO think girls should be allowed to do quads in the FS and it's sexist they aren't.

But Aliona didn't write those rules and others have the same chances to learn a 3A and perform it in the SP. Regardless even taking that into account Anna's BV was higher than Aliona's BV across both programs. And Anna would have won if she had landed her quads cleanly at Euros, even if Aliona hadn't fallen. If both were clean Anna would have won. But neither were and Anna made more mistakes.

 

[PyeongChang2018]

Hi! I will note that we had about 5-10 pages about this subject in the past week, and there are lots of perspectives in the pages before 880. I hope that gives you what you need!

Oh gosh hahaha okay thank you, I'll check back there

 

[chasingneverland]

wow that's crazy. They are giving her the same PCS points as Veronica Zhilina ~60 when she was getting ~46 for this exact same program just a few months ago and she's no where close to Zhilina's SS. The Eteri bonus lives on.

Comparing across competitions is foolish and stupid. At least wait until they're in the same competition before airing your grievances and complaining about your fav skater's scores. There are too many variables otherwise.

 

[chasingneverland]

I’m sure Anna would prefer to call herself world champion or Olympic champion to 3x national champion.
Alina/ Adelina are always referred to as Olympic champion.
Evgenia/Liza always as world champion.
Their Russian titles are literally only mentioned after their international ones.
I get you Anna stans want to make her achievements more special, but maybe just wait until she achieves something internationally.
And sure all her skates on the national scene are good, but that’s because they don’t have the same pressure as international. She first needs to perform her best at those events.
To date, she has competed in 3 major international competitions, and has come second each time. Meaning someone else always did it better...

I would say she already HAS achieved something internationally. Or do you have any silver medals at GPF and European competitions?? She's literally in the top 2 or 3 in the world at the senior level. That IS achieving something internationally.

And for the record Michelle Kwan never won the Olympics but she does have the record in national championship titles. I challenge you to say she hasn't achieved something. Would she prefer to be Olympic champion? Probably but it's wrong to diminish what she has accomplished.

Also, I'm glad you brought up that she's come second in 3 major international competitions. First of all I'm curious to know then what you think of Sasha's accomplishments? Or Evgenia's? She after all didn't win an OGM. Furthermore, at the senior level Anna's only come second twice and the winner of that - Aliona - is as things stand nowhere near her peak form - although I hope she can regain it fast.

 

[ELEk3k]

It seems to me an interesting topic for discussion. Imagine if Eteri put a completely copied program from the world champion or Olympic champion in figure skating among men to one of the girls and she would skate it completely perfectly, but she would receive less score than a man (the coefficients are different for men and women). What should to do with this ISU? Could it be ignored, or would it force a revolution?
I understand that this may sound stupid on my part, but it is starting to seem more and more real. Although I don't think it's possible yet.

 

[Amei]

Hey! I'm truly not meaning to drum up drama and speculation into their private lives and maybe this has already been discussed, but I just watched the press conferences between Zagitova and Medvedeva and the tension between the two surprised me very much (see the last couple of minutes re: the team results https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4dQQev3490). I for one would love to see the two vying for more titles against each other, as they are both remarkable athletes. Anyway, this is new to me and I can only wonder what it's like for them to train alongside each other. Perhaps it's an unfair judgment on my part but I can't imagine Sambo 70 is the most positive working environment.

Well only 1 of them is actively attempting to be a competitive skater; Zagitova is on "break" from competition, and based on her exhibition skates, I'd be willing to bet that she's not at Sambo training a significant amount where her and Medvedeva are having to interact a lot.

 

[Scott512]

Let’s just ignore that all those kids scored in the same range in PCS in that competition, and some were getting very generous GOEs on their jumps as well. That would be inconvenient.

we can certainly take a score for Sofia Muravyova from Cup of Moscow where she won with 56 in PCS with a clean skate, and just in 3 weeks at JrNats she got 65 in PCS. One could spin in it into “wow, look at the sudden 9 point PCS score increase she got in 3 weeks, what a miracle”
Or people can actually have a look and see that Cup of Moscow was kind of strict and conservative with scoring everyone and not take out these scores out of context. Certainly people here in some cases would prefer not to look at the full picture.

Though, one got to appreciate how due to Eteri skaters people started watching some small meaningless novice competitions just to scrutinize the scores her skaters receive, and remembering all the scores they received prior to that. Talk about increasing interest in the sport!

That is a way to increase the interest in the sport!

I did not know PA Sofia got a nine-point PCS increase in just a couple weeks. Maybe the Eteri bounce is catching!

 

[lopsilceci]

I’m sure Anna would prefer to call herself world champion or Olympic champion to 3x national champion.
Alina/ Adelina are always referred to as Olympic champion.
Evgenia/Liza always as world champion.
Their Russian titles are literally only mentioned after their international ones.
I get you Anna stans want to make her achievements more special, but maybe just wait until she achieves something internationally.
And sure all her skates on the national scene are good, but that’s because they don’t have the same pressure as international. She first needs to perform her best at those events.
To date, she has competed in 3 major international competitions, and has come second each time. Meaning someone else always did it better...

Come back in about a month and a half.

 

[Dawn825]

I would say she already HAS achieved something internationally. Or do you have any silver medals at GPF and European competitions?? She's literally in the top 2 or 3 in the world at the senior level. That IS achieving something internationally.

And for the record Michelle Kwan never won the Olympics but she does have the record in national championship titles. I challenge you to say she hasn't achieved something. Would she prefer to be Olympic champion? Probably but it's wrong to diminish what she has accomplished.

Also, I'm glad you brought up that she's come second in 3 major international competitions. First of all I'm curious to know then what you think of Sasha's accomplishments? Or Evgenia's? She after all didn't win an OGM. Furthermore, at the senior level Anna's only come second twice and the winner of that - Aliona - is as things stand nowhere near her peak form - although I hope she can regain it fast.

Michelle and Evgenia are multiple time world champions.
Sasha is also a skater who has a lot of potential, but is in the same boat as Anna internationally. If last year's Worlds had happened they would probably be World medalists at least but it didnt so theyre not. If in a month Anna becomes world champion, then she'll have earned her undisputed place in skating history. For now, she has her place in Russian skating history.

 

[Thrashergurl]

Michelle is actually a 5 time world champion and has also silver and bronze. That’s amazing. Zhenya has 2 gold and
A bronze. I wonder if she would have had 3 golds If she had competed at worlds following the Olympics.

 

[sclloyd]

Actual footage of Maiia looking at Medvedeva the next week at training.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CLE9JysFm0D/?igshid=4le7wl1ijsyl

I do feel quite bad for Maiia. I know that in highly competitive sports you need to have the mentality to deliver, and she falls and makes costly mistakes in combinations. But she is still so stellar so it's sad to see her left behind. TT does a lot with so many skaters, but I can't help but wonder if someone like Plushenko might not be a better fit for her just because she comes so alive in the SP which is somewhat unconventional for Daniil. I don't think the TT image works for her the way it does Anna and Kamila. She is something different being forced into that TT mold.

 

[Dawn825]

I do feel quite bad for Maiia. I know that in highly competitive sports you need to have the mentality to deliver, and she falls and makes costly mistakes in combinations. But she is still so stellar so it's sad to see her left behind. TT does a lot with so many skaters, but I can't help but wonder if someone like Plushenko might not be a better fit for her just because she comes so alive in the SP which is somewhat unconventional for Daniil. I don't think the TT image works for her the way it does Anna and Kamila. She is something different being forced into that TT mold.

Hmm. I think she needs someone else besides either of those two. I can't tell for sure from all the pictures but she looks quite tall and she's only 14. Both Tutberidze and Plushenko specialize in tiny girls. Maiia needs someone who could teach her better technique that will last if she continues to grow. I think any other camp would let her use a choreographer suited to her strengths, Idk if anyone besides Tutberidze forces all their students to use the same one.

 

[chasingneverland]

Michelle and Evgenia are multiple time world champions.
Sasha is also a skater who has a lot of potential, but is in the same boat as Anna internationally. If last year's Worlds had happened they would probably be World medalists at least but it didnt so theyre not. If in a month Anna becomes world champion, then she'll have earned her undisputed place in skating history. For now, she has her place in Russian skating history.

You're missing the point.

 

[yume]

Hmm. I think she needs someone else besides either of those two. I can't tell for sure from all the pictures but she looks quite tall and she's only 14. Both Tutberidze and Plushenko specialize in tiny girls. Maiia needs someone who could teach her better technique that will last if she continues to grow. I think any other camp would let her use a choreographer suited to her strengths, Idk if anyone besides Tutberidze forces all their students to use the same one.

The only coach who coached several tall girls (taller than the norm) recently is Buyanova (Sotskova, Tsurskaya, Radionova). And it didn't end well. All had UR and consistency issues. Strangely Sotskova could skate better and UR less in 1st part of the season but not the 2nd one.
I don't know if Buyanova is the best fit for her.

Mishin is reputed to teach strong technique but Samodurova and Guliakova (and their overly prerotated tiny jumps, flutz and UR issues) exist. Does he have successful experience with tall girls?

 

[[email protected]]

You really don't think that those skaters aren't under great pressure to win at Nationals? Look at a couple months ago, Shcherbakova was skating to be the first ladies skater since Slutskaya did it from 1999-2001 to win 3 consecutive national championships, additionally Shcherbakova was under pressure that she had yet to do a program run-through since she had come down with pneumonia.

The pressure at the nationals is the same for Anna as at the worlds or GPF. This time it was may be a bit less because she faced "just" Sasha and Kamila. It would be the same if Alyona was participating provided that Rika is healthy and is a threat. There are no other skaters outside Russia who can put any psychological pressure on Anna now. The gap is too wide.

 

[[email protected]]

Michelle is actually a 5 time world champion and has also silver and bronze. That’s amazing. Zhenya has 2 gold and
A bronze. I wonder if she would have had 3 golds If she had competed at worlds following the Olympics.

She would not - she was injured and she gave it all to the Olympics. Why did Alina go there with the OGM and after a serious cold, I don't know. They both had to stay home - Osmond would win anyway.