Ladies' Long Program

[Wrlmy]

According to me YES, but I can take anything Yu-Na does over overrated Mao, so don't rely on my predictions.
Still, with the way the judging is headed, I shall say Yu-Na is better positioned with her skating quality.

I agree that, at this point, Yuna has technical edge over any other skater. Funny thing is Mao's technical merit has been su much hyped that her non-jumping merit has been underappreciated IMO. I think Mao has the best fluidity in the field. She should really focus on her forte and appeal that to the crowd instead of her incomplete triples/axel. I can't wait to see Yuna. I really wish at least one of the world podium ladies can skate up to expectation.

 

[chuckm]

This is where perspective differs I guess, because I thought just the opposite between Rochette and Nakano's short programs. I thought Nakano's performance was totally blah and marred by the fall. In both the short and long, her choreography doesn't hold a candle to Rochette's. I thought Rochette showed great presentation throughout her LP, in spite of the singled combos. Nakano was extremely lucky to get that 3x validated, as it was extremely underrotated.

I thought Rochette's performance in the SP was very, very shaky. She didn't get the GOE she should have on her non-jumps elements and the jumps were sloppy. Good choreography provides the potential, but it has to be performed with authority, or it doesn't transcend the ordinary. Joannie didn't do that in the SP.

And if a skater has great choreography but struggles with the technical elements (as Joannie did in the SP and the last 1.5 minutes of her FS), the effect of the choreography is lost because the flow is ruined.

Joannie has always had well-choreographed programs. Her problem is that she has frequently been unable to perform them well.

 

[Mathman]

Number of triple jumps downgraded in the ladies' free skate at Skate Canada: 4.

Number of triple jumps downgraded in the ladies' free skate at Skate America: 21.

 

[mizu_iro]

I agree that, at this point, Yuna has technical edge over any other skater. Funny thing is Mao's technical merit has been su much hyped that her non-jumping merit has been underappreciated IMO. I think Mao has the best fluidity in the field. She should really focus on her forte and appeal that to the crowd instead of her incomplete triples/axel. I can't wait to see Yuna. I really wish at least one of the world podium ladies can skate up to expectation.

Problem for Mao is that what she has in fluidity, Yu-Na has in expression, so the one with the technical edge will win out if both skate clean. And without her triple axel/axels, Mao will lose out - Yu-Na actually scores higher with her 3F-3T than Mao does on her 3F-3R, and she has both a true lutz and a nice flip (which, some people argue, errs on the side of a lip, but judges don't seem to deduct for going off the flat).

We'll see how good Yu-Na's looking next week...hopefully she's in tiptop shape and she brings the loop back into her long.

 

[museksk8r]

I wish someone had a screencap of Yukari's alleged 3Axel landing to see how badly underrotated it was.

 

[Wrlmy]

Number of triple jumps downgraded in the ladies' free skate at Skate Canada: 4.
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And half of them were Mao's? Damn..

 

[Mathman]

Well, at least she didn't get five like Caroline Z.

 

[rain]

I thought Rochette's performance in the SP was very, very shaky. She didn't get the GOE she should have on her non-jumps elements and the jumps were sloppy. Good choreography provides the potential, but it has to be performed with authority, or it doesn't transcend the ordinary. Joannie didn't do that in the SP.

And if a skater has great choreography but struggles with the technical elements (as Joannie did in the SP and the last 1.5 minutes of her FS), the effect of the choreography is lost because the flow is ruined.

Joannie has always had well-choreographed programs. Her problem is that she has frequently been unable to perform them well.

Once again, to reiterate: opinions vary. How much "authority" a skater showed is a matter of opinion. Ours differ on this occasion. Also, how much the flow of a program is ruined by minor glitches is a matter of opinion, and ours differ.

I do agree that execution, not choreography has often been Rochette's downfall. I just don't think it was on this occasion. I'm not outraged or some such at the results, I simply would have switched second and third places if it had been my decision. That's all any of us can ever do on this forum, offer our opinions.

 

[feraina]

Number of triple jumps downgraded in the ladies' free skate at Skate Canada: 4.

Number of triple jumps downgraded in the ladies' free skate at Skate America: 21.

Mao's 2 downgrades at SC were both very obviously under-rotated.

I think the biggest victim of the over-zealous SA technical panel is Caroline Z.

The GPF entries will end up looking something like this:
1) Mao (2 golds)
2) Yu-na (2 golds)
3) Kimmie (1 gold, 1 silver)
4) Miki Ando (1 gold, 1 silver)

if Nakano loses to Rochette @ CoR
5) XXX (1 silver, 1 bronze)
6) XXX (1 silver, 1 bronze)

if Nakano beats Rochette @ CoR
5) Yukari Nakano (2 silvers)
6) XXX (1 silver, 1 bronze)

If all go according to plan with the top 4, then one or two places will go to someone who has 1S+1B. But b/c the first tiebreaker is broken by total score, Caroline's low SA score means that even if she wins silver at CoC, she will probably lose out to Joannie Rochette, Sarah Meier, and/or Carolina Kostner for a place in the GPF.

I think it's totally unacceptable to have different technical standards at different GP competitions, given how absolute scores are used for determining GPF entries and also the season's best list for next year's GP selections! The CoP needs to be changed to minimize inconsistency across competitions.

 

[museksk8r]

I just hope we don't end up with another Grand Prix finalist this year like we had last year with Julia Sebestyen, who won Cup of China with only 3 clean triples over Yukari Nakano and Emily Hughes. All 3 turned in underwhelming performances filled with pops and underrotated jumps. If I've ever seen a Grand Prix event with lousy competition, it was that one. Hopefully, all of the finalists will make it because they turned in inspiring performances rather than being the last lady standing.

 

[mizu_iro]

I just hope we don't end up with another Grand Prix finalist this year like we had last year with Julia Sebestyen, who won Cup of China with only 3 clean triples over Yukari Nakano and Emily Hughes. All 3 turned in underwhelming performances filled with pops and underrotated jumps. If I've ever seen a Grand Prix event with lousy competition, it was that one. Hopefully, all of the finalists will make it because they turned in inspiring performances rather than being the last lady standing.

I think seeding the skaters and assigning them based on ranking will preclude that. Skate America wasn't a great competition for the ladies, but it was certainly more respectable than last year's CoC.

 

[bekalc]

What is funny is the EuroSport commentators much prefer Kim, but Dick and Peggy much prefer Asada.

Well, Dick prefers Mao, but I'm not so sure that Peggy does, because in her commentary about the Asian ladies, she gushed more about Yu-na then Mao, mentioning Mao as the after thought.

I think that Asada is a phemonal basic skater ,and she flew across the ice.

But , I don't get why people are saying that she's so great at interperting music, because I don't really feel like Mao gets her music whatsover. If you notice her arms for example, she's not exactly moving her arms to the music.. And her music was all fast, so she could flow with it, but I wonder if it wasn't so one note if she would go slower with the music etc.

In contrast, Yu-na I think is wonderful musically. In her short program at worlds, she really hit every single beat of the music for that footwork section. And I noticed in her recent exhibition Once upon a dream, that Yu-na moved her arms to the music. She really pays attention to it and moves fast when the music's fast, slow when the music's slow. I suspect as well that we will see a lot more different types of music from Yu-na than we will from Mao, Mao's music choices this year are quite similar.

This doesn't mean that Mao doesn't have her gorgeous elements, her positions are exquisite, and her spiral is to die for. But, I think when it comes to musical interpertation, Mao needs some work.

I think in terms of Yu-na if Brian Orser's words about how Yu-na has that three loop under her control now, I think that Yu-na will clearly have the technical edge over Mao... And honestly, in someways it will be quite funny if this happens because Yu-na is underrated as a jumper.

People have spent so much time gushing over Asada's triple axel, that they didn't notice some really glaring problems with her technique. Whereas while Yu-na didn't have that one big jump, she's probably the best technical jumper in the world. I strongly suspect as well that if Yu-na truly put her mind to it, she could probably get that triple axel, or if not a triple axel a quad. But can I say good for Yu-na Kim's team on focusing on having good technique on all the jumps, and not necessarily one big jump...

 

[lilybear]

What is funny is the EuroSport commentators much prefer Kim, but Dick and Peggy much prefer Asada.

Heyhey!! I think many skate fans have the same preference!

 

[BelleFilleYuna]

I'm curious what Raphael, Mao's caoch, was thinking.
Everyone knew rules on jumps are going to get stricter, and I'd say Mao is the easiest target.
I think her coach, known as jump tech specialist, literally did nothing to deal with this new ruling system. Now Mao will leave out her lutz as far as possible, her 3A is not 100% there, her 3/3 is in danger, and under very restricted circumstances she didn't even go for Salchow and Toe.

I'm not saying Raphael is to blame 'single-handedly', but he just should have known...

 

[kerklandas]

Well, Dick prefers Mao, but I'm not so sure that Peggy does, because in her commentary about the Asian ladies, she gushed more about Yu-na then Mao, mentioning Mao as the after thought.

I think that Asada is a phemonal basic skater ,and she flew across the ice.

But , I don't get why people are saying that she's so great at interperting music, because I don't really feel like Mao gets her music whatsover. If you notice her arms for example, she's not exactly moving her arms to the music.. And her music was all fast, so she could flow with it, but I wonder if it wasn't so one note if she would go slower with the music etc.

In contrast, Yu-na I think is wonderful musically. In her short program at worlds, she really hit every single beat of the music for that footwork section. And I noticed in her recent exhibition Once upon a dream, that Yu-na moved her arms to the music. She really pays attention to it and moves fast when the music's fast, slow when the music's slow. I suspect as well that we will see a lot more different types of music from Yu-na than we will from Mao, Mao's music choices this year are quite similar.

This doesn't mean that Mao doesn't have her gorgeous elements, her positions are exquisite, and her spiral is to die for. But, I think when it comes to musical interpertation, Mao needs some work.

I think in terms of Yu-na if Brian Orser's words about how Yu-na has that three loop under her control now, I think that Yu-na will clearly have the technical edge over Mao... And honestly, in someways it will be quite funny if this happens because Yu-na is underrated as a jumper.

People have spent so much time gushing over Asada's triple axel, that they didn't notice some really glaring problems with her technique. Whereas while Yu-na didn't have that one big jump, she's probably the best technical jumper in the world. I strongly suspect as well that if Yu-na truly put her mind to it, she could probably get that triple axel, or if not a triple axel a quad. But can I say good for Yu-na Kim's team on focusing on having good technique on all the jumps, and not necessarily one big jump...

Exacly!!! I agree 100%.
People - especially Japanese media - saying so called " Mao of (Jump)Technique", " Yu-Na of Expression".
I'm seek of explain that's not true. Yu-Na has the best jump technique right now in the business as well as her superior expression!

 

[feraina]

Mao not able to do 3 axel anymore, never could to the 3 sal or 3 toe (although supposably she can do the 3 toe again), and her PCS lower here then Meissner at Skate America. Looking good for Meissner perhaps?

I'm not sure. Mao scored 178 with all her problems in the SP & LP, whereas Kimmie scored 163 at SA. Sure, it's early season, both can improve. But it feels like Mao has more room to improve than Kimmie, as we all know Mao can do so much better than what she showed at Skate Canada. Both Yukari Nakano and Joannie Rochette scored higher than Kimmie as well.

But then, who knows, the technical panel for ladies' LP at SA seemed a bit overzealous at calling UR's, so maybe these scores are not really comparable across SA & SC.

But Mao, even with all her jumping problems, seems closer to getting her 3A and 3/3 fully credited than Kimmie to hers. I don't think we'll ever see another 3A from Kimmie, and the 3/3 is always going to be suspect with Kimmie's dodgy toe-axeling and under-rotation. Plus Mao always has an advantage over Kimmie in PCS.

I think Kimmie has little chance of beating Mao or Yu-na, unless they have a total melt-down.

 

[Dennis]

I don't want to be harsh with Mao, but IMO a real champion should have 5 types of triples.

Michelle Kwan did have all the triples minus the 3A. All of her triples had a perfect technique. She struggled with her loop in her late years, but she fixed her flutz.

It is also because of this that I consider MK a real FS champion!!!

You took the words right out of my mouth

 

[sorcerer]

I don't want to be harsh with Mao, but IMO a real champion should have 5 types of triples.

ITA twice. I like Mao VERY much, but the more I like her, the more I'd say that instead of threatning other skaters by declaring I plan to do 2 triple-Axels in a game or I'll try to put in quad loop (!), she has other things to do instead. Because she definitely has the ability to have all types of jumps!

I think it's totally unacceptable to have different technical standards at different GP competitions, given how absolute scores are used for determining GPF entries and also the season's best list for next year's GP selections! The CoP needs to be changed to minimize inconsistency across competitions.

ITA again but OTOH expecting it to the tech panel (the way it is) may be asking too much.
Instead, one can say that skaters should make efforts to have jumps clean enough that even the most zealous tech panel wouldn't DG.
Young Mao still flutzing is unbelievable.
Both Kimmie and Miki (they are elder!) have fixed their wrong edge, or at least have shown some fixed jumps in the SA!

 

[cosmos]

I I strongly suspect as well that if Yu-na truly put her mind to it, she could probably get that triple axel, or if not a triple axel a quad. But can I say good for Yu-na Kim's team on focusing on having good technique on all the jumps, and not necessarily one big jump...

ITA. Her jumps have tremendous height and distance. Better than anybody in this business. However, apparently, she has no intention to pracrice 3A. I guess, one of the reasons, she is afraid of injury practicing it may cause.

 

[ks777]

ITA. Her jumps have tremendous height and distance. Better than anybody in this business. However, apparently, she has no intention to pracrice 3A. I guess, one of the reasons, she is afraid of injury practicing it may cause.

that's not what I heard. Yuna had practiced 3A. If I remember it right, she was practicing on that jump when she was younger. She just couldn't master it.
You make it sound like Yuna can do the jump if she really wants to. Yuna might be a great toe-jumper but the axel jump isn't one of the toe jumps, just so you know.