2020–21 Canadian Figure Skating | Page 50 | Golden Skate

2020–21 Canadian Figure Skating

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a lot of people have mentioned how upsetting it must be for trennt and evelyn... i said " may the best pair win".

Nobody wrote however how this may harm Matte and Ferland, Camille and Drew and Deanna and Maxime . these 3 teams work with Connolly and Marcotte. 2 of these teams progressed a lot recently. Now, they will have to play second fiddle as obviously, the new pairing will get a lot of attention.

I think that's collateral damage that fans have not yet considered....

My personal point of view about this : mixed feelings... but I hope the new pairing will mentor, inspire and influence positively their teammates...
 
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Leaving the drama aside, with Radford/James - what do you think their chances are for a medal in Pairs (not team)Too new? I read a Russian article saying they can win Gold 🤣🤣. Do you think they will overtake MT/M ? So curious as to how this turns out but their few elements look nice
 
Leaving the drama aside, with Radford/James - what do you think their chances are for a medal in Pairs (not team)Too new? I read a Russian article saying they can win Gold 🤣🤣. Do you think they will overtake MT/M ? So curious as to how this turns out but their few elements look nice
The modern gold standard for a team coming together in one season is undoubtedly Volosozhar & Trankov, World silver medalists their first time out.

More recently, Knierim & Frazier took off right out the gate, even if not quite to world medalist level.

Vanessa & Eric are both exceptionally talented, obviously. I think then being national champions is very possible if they’re capable of performing the way they did when we last saw them compete (a bit more of a question mark for Eric).

I could see them being a top five team, but cracking higher than that seems like an outside prospect just based on the overall quality and consistency of the top Russian and Chinese teams. But stranger things have happened.
 
Vanessa & Eric are both exceptionally talented, obviously. I think then being national champions is very possible if they’re capable of performing the way they did when we last saw them compete (a bit more of a question mark for Eric).

I could see them being a top five team, but cracking higher than that seems like an outside prospect just based on the overall quality and consistency of the top Russian and Chinese teams. But stranger things have happened.
I also wonder if James/Radford might consider competing for one more year post-Beijing—especially if they do well. I‘m assuming that Sui/Han, Tarasova/Morozov, MT/M, and probably Knierim/Frazier, will retire after next season, so J/R could potentially have a lot less competition in the post-Olympic year.
 
What do you think the chances are of James/Radford landing a throw quad salchow? They both attempted the element in competition with their previous partners. They're older now, but Vanessa has a tighter rotational position than Meagan and throws wouldn't affect Eric's back as much as some other elements. There isn't much scoring incentive, but since they're interested in bringing something new to the ice, if they can do it safely then why not?
Also wondering what SBS jumps they could do... 3Lz and 3S-2T-2Lo maybe? None of the top pairs besides Mishina/Galliamov and Boikova/Kozlovskii have very solid SBS jumps. I miss seeing -2T-2Lo combos in pairs.
 
What do you think the chances are of James/Radford landing a throw quad salchow? They both attempted the element in competition with their previous partners. They're older now, but Vanessa has a tighter rotational position than Meagan and throws wouldn't affect Eric's back as much as some other elements. There isn't much scoring incentive, but since they're interested in bringing something new to the ice, if they can do it safely then why not?
Also wondering what SBS jumps they could do... 3Lz and 3S-2T-2Lo maybe? None of the top pairs besides Mishina/Galliamov and Boikova/Kozlovskii have very solid SBS jumps. I miss seeing -2T-2Lo combos in pairs.
Vanessa probably hasn’t jumped a 3Lz since her singles days (if then; I don’t recall what jumps she had way back when), so I think they’d likely stick to 3S and 3T. If they were aiming to be ambitious with the jump content I would probably advise them to try the 3S-Eu-3S that Mishina & Galliamov have had so much success with.

My first instinct on the quad throw was to say it’s highly unlikely. The scoring system revisions killed the reward, so while it’d be cool, there’s not a ton of upside. But it would be immediately distinctive, since I don’t think anyone has even tried one in competition since 2018 Worlds.
 
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Who was that at Worlds in 2018? I thought only Meagan and Vanessa did them at all, and Meagan wasn't present at Worlds 2018. I distinctly remember Vanessa having a fall on a throw 3S because they couldn't do a 4S due to a neck injury and Vanessa had been training for the 4S the whole season, and the 3S therefore felt unfamiliar....

Here's the part of an interview on GS about Worlds 2018 Pairs that deals with that:
“We had been working on the triple Salchow throw that we haven’t done for over two years now,” said James, regarding the fall. “We only started on Thursday last week, so it’s only been few days. The coaches wanted me to stay focused because I don’t have reflexes for triples any more, I just turn so quickly now for the quad. But we did a lot of beautiful triple Salchows in the warm up and in practice. I think this one was just extraordinarily big. I had too much time to come out and I got knocked out of me. But I think the experience from this and last year: A mistake can win or lose the competition, but what you do next can change everything. So knowing this from my ups and downs last year, in that moment I forgot the pain. It’s a lot of work. My coaches’, my partner’s, my sports psychologist’s support made everything possible today.”

I think the last throw 4S was actually at the Olympics!

Back to topic: I would love to see throw 4S back again. And if Vanessa and Eric can make that happen....(but it is unlikely, I know).
 
well well well... i don't know what james is able to do SBS wise...

What i know is that Eric cannot do the loop. That was Meagan's best jump and she mentioned Eric had all his triples up to lutz but the loop... so that wasn't an option.

I don't think 3-3 are an option either.

I am pretty sure they will do 3t and 3s. I wonder if a 2a-3t would be available at but I doubt it. Something possible that hasn't been done much would be a 3tEU3s which might be easier for some than a 3sEU3s BUT that involves having another kind of triple jump or doing a 2a.

Talking about axels, it would be a better asset for them to do the throw 3a than the 4s. They could use it in both programs. I know that Meagan and Eric were working on that.

The thing with jumps and throws is that they have options that wouldn't set them back...BUT i am worried about their lifts. It has become harder to get level 4 and James is much taller than Meagan. Balance and strength may be issues.
 
I also wonder if James/Radford might consider competing for one more year post-Beijing—especially if they do well. I‘m assuming that Sui/Han, Tarasova/Morozov, MT/M, and probably Knierim/Frazier, will retire after next season, so J/R could potentially have a lot less competition in the post-Olympic year.
I hope they do. The quote below from the Bev Smith article is one of several quotes from Vanessa and Eric that make me think that their intention is mainly to create something new and different from other pairs. This is what's exciting to me, after my first reaction that they could be a beautiful pair together, musically and artistically. But of course the fact that they could imagine a place for them competitively and try for the Olympics plays a part. The Smith article is fair to all sides and puts events in an order that clear up some of the confusion. It's a good read.

They both watched the pairs events this season and realized that there was room for them competitively. “But it’s also a space for us to start being creative again,” James said. “Making something that the world has never seen before in skating. I think that’s really our goal, to enjoy the journey, to create something that neither of us has experienced or done before and really kind of change up the game and motivate the next generation of skaters to do the same.”

 
well whatever.. pairs is pairs... it's not like they will reinvent the twist, the throws, the SBS jumps and spins... james and cipres did have creative and inventive transitions... and well didn't charlie and lubov say the same thing? "we will create new exciting moves" and they did create amazing lifts but in the end, lifts are lifts... i do not expect them to create a genuinely new transitions and element, and nor have the time to establish a truly groundbreaking pairs style... if Eric is thinking that they will not show a romantic connection like many other pairs do, well.... he's done that already with Meagan :)
 
a lot of people have mentioned how upsetting it must be for trennt and evelyn... i said " may the best pair win".

Nobody wrote however how this may harm Matte and Ferland, Camille and Drew and Deanna and Maxime . these 3 teams work with Connolly and Marcotte. 2 of these teams progressed a lot recently. Now, they will have to play second fiddle as obviously, the new pairing will get a lot of attention.

I think that's collateral damage that fans have not yet considered....

My personal point of view about this : mixed feelings... but I hope the new pairing will mentor, inspire and influence positively their teammates...

Honestly, the new pairing of James/Radford is exciting and will certainly shake things up both in Canada and internationally. As I said about the pairing of Savchenko/Massot (which had a lot of fits and starts in the beginning due to the country release issues), 'Let the Skaters Skate!'

This new pairing adds some intrigue and excitement, and that's always welcome, in my opinion. Frankly, Canadian senior pairs has not been very strong since Meagan/Eric's retirement, and with the problems of Seguin/Bilodeau, and then Lubov/Bilodeau, coupled with Dylan's injury which led to the break-up of Lubov/Dylan in the first place (although Dylan likely had not planned to continue past 2018 Olympics, had he made it there). Kirsten/Michael have been the beneficiaries of all of this change and break-ups, etc. But although K&M are a fun, competitive team, they legit have not broken through to the very top, and their international podium potential at Worlds and Olympics, while possible, is doubtful. As a team, K&M have to mostly be wary of the teams biting at their skate blades, while the teams ahead of them are much more difficult for them to beat. The recent Worlds results are obvious evidence of this reality. Additionally, Ruest/Wolfe, an exciting aesthetic team, have always been inconsistent technically.

Matte/Ferland are a nice team with competitive potential perhaps in the second tier internationally, the same as Walsh/Michaud. Both M/F and W/M while still developing teams, seemingly both have a plateau in terms of skills and abilities matching up to top level international teams. Cami/Drew, as I said, have been vastly inconsistent, along with being hampered by injury setbacks, despite their lovely lyrical aesthetic.

IMHO, Brooke McIntosh/Ben Mimar, if they continue building as expected, would more than likely eventually surpass Walsh/Michaud in overall skill, ability and top level international potential, eh. If Brasseur/Daleman can progress and add difficulty, they too seem to have more top level potential than W/M and certainly than Matte/Ferland and Ruest/Wolfe. I really like Maxime/Deanna, and I'm very eager to see how far they can go. But honestly, Deanna is still awaiting her release if I'm not mistaken, as well as Canadian citizenship, so she wouldn't have an opportunity to compete for making the 2022 Canadian Olympic team anyway.

Meanwhile, the new team of James/Radford apparently will be training with Maxime/Deanna, and Matte/Ferland, as I believe Ian Connelly works with all three teams. It's always a good thing to be training in the same rink with a pair that consists of a former multiple World & Canadian champion/ Olympic bronze medalist/Team gold medalist; and a former World medalist & 3-time Olympian with GPF and European championships to her name, eh!

I'm sure the potential and credentials of this new pairing has not escaped Skate Canada. Frankly, with their recent diversity sensitivity issues, this new pairing is surely also a very welcome prospect for Skate Canada who can claim how much they care about diversity in concrete terms. I recall some fans suggesting that Vanessa James might pair with Danny O'Shea (a random suggestion since it's not clear he's still seriously interested in competing). I never thought that was a viable suggestion. James/Radford makes much more sense and are much more intriguing and a much better match-up. Not to mention that Vanessa was born in Canada, so she has roots there (her mother is Canadian), and thus there's no citizenship issues to deal with. As well, Skate Canada has more boffo political clout than France and the U.S. combined, along with a strong pairs legacy.

One additional thing: When Virtue/Moir decided to return to competition, it had even more of a huge impact on Canada's ice dance division, which is very deep, while the current Canadian senior pairs division has a ton of room available for a veteran pairing made up of two former champions with huge talent. There certainly weren't a lot of Canadian fans complaining overly much about V/M 'harming' other teams when they came back. It simply is what it is. Competition is competition. No handouts. Every athlete has to weather the sturm und drang, and frankly put up or shut up.


P.S.
Haven't Kirsten/Michael also indicated that they plan to retire after the Olympics? As one Canadian fan previously suggested, maybe Kirsten might have better prospects post retirement with Trennt Michaud, who is an excellent pairs partner. Trennt & Evelyn are a nice, gutsy team, similar to the gutsy competitiveness displayed by Kirsten/Michael. The issue for both teams has been one partner trying to come up in experience and skill level to match the other with mixed results. As the stronger of their respective current pairings, Kirsten/Trennt could be a dynamic pairing with greater potential. However, I'm not certain that Kirsten wants to continue competing with a younger partner post-2022 Olympics. And of course, Trennt may not ever want to split with Evelyn, for short-term gain. Even though, as I said earlier, Walsh/Michaud most likely will be eventually surpassed by a stronger team in McIntosh/Mimar.
 
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I have mixed feelings,
Pairs definitely need a boost for both quality skating and performance.
pairs is something that you need performance.
I see Eric and Vanessa should have both performance and quality and will be a great example for the younger teams who are still developing stronger skating skill and performance. I’m not adding Elements only because at senior the triples should be there.
But this is where I’m torn
I feel through shows Eric and Vanessa could’ve done that, to risk taking younger teams out of the running for spots when it seems Canada don’t seem to send younger athletes internationally as often as I think they could.
I think right now senior/junior pairs teams are a big mix of talent and not sure if well matched to reach full potential.
Yes, I’d love to see another team with the qualities of J/R, given they can compete to most people expectations.
MTM have done well, but not really attempted to step it up and the same inconsistencies still seem to occur.
W/M have improved, but again not pushing the bar, nor IMO have performance like MooreTowers.
Camille Drew and other older senior pairs, haven’t really been given a ‘spotlight’ or as much opportunity to show them self well.
Daleman Brasseur IMO, him having performance more then she does, her 19 and struggling on the throws shows lots of developing to go and younger ones may just surpass.
M/M need performance, they may land the elements, but are gonna get hit with that bottom mark internationally. But at least they can stay Junior to try and get some recognition.
I still hope to see a team developing strong in elements, performance and skating skill. Not just one of the three, when I see that I’ll have a favourite team!
I wasn’t gonna give my thoughts on skating skill cause I think with all the years of watching we can see the ones using edges, speed etc.
 
well thanks for your long post... in this thread, we have all been raving about Brooke and Benjamin's potential since we first saw them training, then competing. MTM were doing well for a couple years but the young Russian teams are so strong that even a top 5 is now difficult. MTM have failed to raise their content after all these years. Their BV is lower than other pairs and with the newish rules for lifts, they have a harder time than some getting level 4s.... Lifts, since the BV for quads elements was brought down are really where the points can be gain with level 4. (granted that pairs managed through the SBS jumps) It would be interesting to see how many points they have lost on lifts over the SP and LP compared to the top teams...

I like Trennt and Evelyn but I never thought they were well matched. So, I have never been a huge fan of them. If MTM have benefited from the lubov/julianne+charlie/dylan issues, the real winners have been Walsh and MIchaud... they wouldn't have had the same opportunities to compete if there hadn't been such problems at the top... Camille and Drew : so promising in their first season... but as soon as they tried to up the ante with adding the triple twist and some harder elements, they collapsed... and got injured.

Before James and Radford, I was really hoping Deanna and Maxime would get the okay to compete...

Matte and Ferland, I find them more convincing as a pair as Walsh and MIchaud. However, they have less experience than them... they also do not have what it takes to be a top 5 pairs team... they are still young and have skated together for a long time. We will see if they can get more consistent with more experience in seniors.. however, I like them a lot.

Brasseur and Daleman are a big question mark for me.
 
I have mixed feelings,
Pairs definitely need a boost for both quality skating and performance.
pairs is something that you need performance.
I see Eric and Vanessa should have both performance and quality and will be a great example for the younger teams who are still developing stronger skating skill and performance.
This is a great point. Performance, and quality. This is what they can inspire and push other Canadian pairs (and pairs worldwide) to aspire to and improve.

But this is where I’m torn
I feel through shows Eric and Vanessa could’ve done that, to risk taking younger teams out of the running for spots when it seems Canada don’t seem to send younger athletes internationally as often as I think they could.
I think right now senior/junior pairs teams are a big mix of talent and not sure if well matched to reach full potential.
Yes, I’d love to see another team with the qualities of J/R, given they can compete to most people expectations.

I think that's the conundrum. Do you want some other team with the qualities of J/R? Then you want J/R, because there are no other Canadian pairs currently competing who have competed to the level that they have; and also, every pair is going to create their own magic. That's part of the wonder of pairs to me, how two individuals bring their own styles and qualities to create something different from any other pair. Someone said well, Lubov and Charlie said and did the same thing. Yes they did, but that doesn't mean it's something that can be checked off as 'already been done.' Every pair combines to make something brand new and unique.

And Eric said that's part of what intrigued him and Vanessa ... that they discovered really quickly that not only do their skating and elements, even with their different techniques, match up well ... but also that they could do things, create moods, and bring out feelings quite unlike what each did with their previous partners.

MTM have done well, but not really attempted to step it up and the same inconsistencies still seem to occur.
W/M have improved, but again not pushing the bar, nor IMO have performance like MooreTowers.
Having seen MTM at Skate America 2017, I had high hopes and have enjoyed what they show. But I agree with your statement.

Walsh and Michaud - this team proves to me that I don't need to see whatever it is the judges see or don't see about them. I just really enjoy watching Evelyn and Trennt skate, and I think they have something really special together. They seem very committed to each other too -- and it just occurred to me, maybe that's one of the reasons I like them. That commitment shines through in their skating.
 
Walsh and Michaud - this team proves to me that I don't need to see whatever it is the judges see or don't see about them. I just really enjoy watching Evelyn and Trennt skate, and I think they have something really special together. They seem very committed to each other too -- and it just occurred to me, maybe that's one of the reasons I like them. That commitment shines through in their skating.
I enjoy W/M, I’d like to see her pull things off at Grand Prix’s, but she seems to do what she needs to by nationals and Worlds.
I like that they are not your ‘typical pair’ and have had success. But am unsure how much they can improve on elements, she’ll be 20 this year and seems most skaters don’t really step it up at this point in their career. Catching the Russians just seem out of possibly, IMO.
 
I enjoy W/M, I’d like to see her pull things off at Grand Prix’s, but she seems to do what she needs to by nationals and Worlds.
I like that they are not your ‘typical pair’ and have had success. But am unsure how much they can improve on elements, she’ll be 20 this year and seems most skaters don’t really step it up at this point in their career. Catching the Russians just seem out of possibly, IMO.
We're talking about Pairs here where it's very possible to step it up after you're 20. Single's men do it, Dance Couples do it, and so do Pairs. It's only in women (or girls) where there's usually no step it up after 20. Well, Liza would disagree - and she proves the point rather spectacularly. So did Ashley.
 
We're talking about Pairs here where it's very possible to step it up after you're 20. Single's men do it, Dance Couples do it, and so do Pairs. It's only in women (or girls) where there's usually no step it up after 20. Well, Liza would disagree - and she proves the point rather spectacularly. So did Ashley.

So if that’s true, we don’t have to worry just yet, Canada seems to have a good few younger pair athletes that have not yet pulled it together. And that wasn’t sarcasm, I hope some of the younger teams step it up and are encouraged by teams like J/R.
I was going by some of our top teams not increasing content the past few years.
But as much as I like the elements and get excited to see a team accomplishing their struggles. I’d most like to see quality, posture, speed and performance improve.
 
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