What skating "used to be"

[MCsAngel2]

Yes, the one discipline that is provably, absolutely better now is ice dance.

But in my opinion that has little to do with IJS, and everything to do with T&D's Bolero. For younger posters, if you've never seen a 70's ice dance program, as gifted as some of those athletes were, it might be difficult to understand the impact of Bolero. Three cheesy cuts of unrelated music have (almost ) disappeared as a result.

Actually....*four* unrelated cuts of music (fast, slow, medium, fast). And, it was really T&D's 1982 Mack and Mabel that changed things. The overture, technically as one piece of music (though still had changes of rhythm). Then 1983's Barnum, then Bolero in 1984. People refer to them as the Big 3, even though the first year they won Euros and Worlds was 1981. No one ever ever talks about their 1981 programs, because they were the typical unrelated songs with no story. Truthfully, it was their 1980 routine (3 swing pieces plus one unrelated slow song) that put them on the map, and IMO, is why they won everything the next year. If that had been their 1981 routine they would have called them the Big 4.

 

[rugbyfan]

For me in terms of skating isn't what it used to be - it slightly depends on the era and discipline. Torvill and Dean aside who were another world, ice dance is better now; I loved the 90s for men, but then it had Browning, Barna, Kulik, Yagudin to name a few who really felt the music; the last decade has, however, had some of the best men of all time - Chan and Hanyu. I like good jumps but they are very far from the be-all and end all for me. I remember a programme because of how a skater skates with the ice and with the music. I loved the old footwork sequences. I definitely miss longevity of skaters. I am a slow burner in terms of getting to like a skater. I want to view a variety of programmes, watch how skaters skate with the ice and interprets the music. I think one of the reasons I loved Kurt so much was because he could skate just about anthying. I want to see how skaters interpret different music etc. It tends to take a few different programmes for me before I really get to appreciate the skater, and then the ones I love best, I associate with music. That means that I miss the "old days" in terms of longevity of women at the top - this doesn't seem to be as true for men or dance. I also do find some of the skating really busy now. I was rewatching a Yamaguchi programme today right after watching a Trusova one and there felt time to enjoy the movements more in the former. I can't really comment on pairs because it used to be my favourite discipline - I think Mishkutenok and Dmitriev 1994 was one of my favourite programmes ever, but I loved them throughout the 1990s and now so few excite me, but I don't really know enough to know why.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

For me, the seachange came with Torvill and Dean, and not just with Mack and Mabel. They were pushing the boundaries before that, and ice dance now is a world away from where it was in the 1970s when it became an Olympic sport for the first time.

That being said, however, I stopped watching most of the figure skating coverage (what little there way of it) during the early to mid-1990s, other than the ice dance, as I found it uninspiring and, frankly, rather boring, with the emphasis on building up speed for a jump, jump and then, well, on to the next one. The mens and pairs competitions were the worst offenders for this. The womens' competition was lifted for me by Chen Lu and... No, just her.

Then, of course, my accident put paid to me even walking and I couldn't watch skating as I became physically sick from the memory of the accident so even watching it was off limits for the best part of two decades. Coming back to watching it with the 2018 Olympics blew me away with how much the sport has changed, especially in the mens competition. They actually skate now, with edges and turns, rather than elements linked with crossovers. Pairs is better, too. I move between utterly entranced by some of the ladies and bored/depressed with the tiny quad squad.

Ice dance fills me with joy again. I just lament the wilderness years when I couldn't watch for feeling the pain of the accident and the resulting inability to do what my life was based on, not least because I don't have a clue who all these initials refer to! Is it really that difficult to use names?

 

[Blades of Passion]

Skating used to be about doing something interesting or majestic for the ENTIRE program. Never getting into an ugly position. Stroking down the ice as if the wind is flying through your hair, like a soaring bird, an unbroken line of beauty, in preparation for a climatic jump or other element. It was about little movements that show character or personality. Telling a story, relaying an emotion.

Too much of current skating is disconnected from a real purpose. Footwork, spin positions, transitions, and other choreography is strung together simply to show difficulty or hit the artificial "bullet point". It's like trying to take pieces from different acclaimed songs and randomly smashing them together. It often becomes a purposeless mess, even if playing that song on an instrument could be technically challenging.

 

[noskates]

In my opinion, skating "used to be" - at least from the top elite skaters - more about the music and the interpretation of the music and making an interesting presentation, than just one big jump to the next. While I can certainly appreciate the athletic ability and sheer willingness to put your body on the line for a quad, I've come to almost dislike them for what they've done to figure skating. It's no secret that I'm fond of Jason Brown but it's totally because his skating reminds me of what skating used to be and what made me fall in love with the sport (and spend thousands of dollars to see it in person over 40+ years) While Plushenko was never one of my favorites on many levels, his ability to capture your attention and his musical interpretation was wonderful. You couldn't not appreciate him. Stephane Lambiel, Kurt Browning, Christopher Bowman, Johnny Weir, Patrick Chan, both Brians.........they cared about the music. And go back even farther to Robin Cousins and Toller Cranston and several names I can't remember. I did think the 6.0 system was flawed in that it didn't create enough room for really evaluating a good performance....there just wasn't enough points and everybody couldn't be a 6.0. Nowadays many of the top skaters have little or no transition and their music and choreography is just background noise that's required for them to skate a program. I honestly think that's in part why we keep hearing the same ol' music from year to year (if I never hear Carmen again it will be wayyy too soon) I know every sport has to keep evolving and be more challenging, but in figure skating in my opinion it's left some of the best facets behind. Yes there are extremely talented skaters today but the young ones don't last long and the injuries keep piling up.

 

[flanker]

During the past couple of seasons we've seen great strides in the sport of figure skating - particularly in terms of technical and jump content. These feats are pushing the envelope of human limitation. However, this has lead to a lot of criticism and I've heard many people say that skating "isn't what it used to be"


But what does that mean for you? And why? What makes those days so special?

Is it the days of the 6.0 system, the great skating skills of Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen or, maybe you're a newer fan and these recent strides are all you've seen from this sport?

To answer that question directly, the skating as it used to be didn't bring my attention. The skating as it is now did. So, it didn't mean much for me.

 

[sinus]

Nowadays many of the top skaters have little or no transition and their music and choreography is just background noise that's required for them to skate a program.

Music is definitely not just 'background noise' for Hanyu, Chen, Kolyada, Uno, Brown or Aymoz. In the good old days not every top skater was supermusical. Compare best with the best.

 

[Minz]

Music is definitely not just 'background noise' for Hanyu, Chen, Kolyada, Uno, Brown or Aymoz. In the good old days not every top skater was supermusical. Compare best with the best.

And it is certainly not just “background noise“ for some more recent greats (in the ladies) like Mao Asada, Yuna Kim, Carolina Kostner, or even Aliona Kostornaia, Anna Shcherbakova or Satoko Miyahara. These are the ones who are winning/won World Titles and medals, European Titles, GPF Titles, and in some cases, Olympic Gold.

 

[Skater Boy]

Skating used to be one of the premiere sports at the Olympics. The women's event was the jewel the highlight of the winter olympics. Endorsements and skating shows abound. Made for tv pro competitions that is what skating used to be. Now it is about racking up the points using the rules.

 

[LiamForeman]

I prefer skating today than pre-COP. Lipinski and Hughes weren't exactly great "old skating" skaters that I long to see again. Nor Slutskaya. FS is now more of a sport, and the artists still manage to produce memorable expressive programs. If you want to see the Michelle Kwans and skating the way it used to be, maybe just watch pro competitions. What's that, there are none? Maybe that's because very few want to watch bare bones fluff and would rather see top athletes compete with the best skills.

 

[TontoK]

I prefer skating today than pre-COP. Lipinski and Hughes weren't exactly great "old skating" skaters that I long to see again. Nor Slutskaya. FS is now more of a sport, and the artists still manage to produce memorable expressive programs. If you want to see the Michelle Kwans and skating the way it used to be, maybe just watch pro competitions. What's that, there are none? Maybe that's because very few want to watch bare bones fluff and would rather see top athletes compete with the best skills.

I think it's likely that both Lipinski and Hughes would have won the Olympics under Code of Points, assuming, of course, that the programs were presented exactly as they were.

In reality, all skaters in both of those Olympic events would have changed their programs to maximize their outcomes in a point-centric system.

 

[LiamForeman]

I think it's likely that both Lipinski and Hughes would have won the Olympics under Code of Points, assuming, of course, that the programs were presented exactly as they were.

In reality, all skaters in both of those Olympic events would have changed their programs to maximize their outcomes in a point-centric system.

Really, both had the two of the three worst flutzes in history (Bobek between the two, Hughes's was so bad and prerotated and UR'd it wasn't even a double...). Hughes with her flutzy, UR'd jumps would have been lucky to be top 10 in SLC. Lipinski would not have fared very well either. And neither of them, to me at least, possessed the skating skills, ability and performance that I would EVER look back on how good skating "used to be". Two Americans with horrendous technique and performance skills won the OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL. Sorry, I'd rather support an OGM like Valieva, Shcherbakova, Trusova, Kostornaiia, ANYONE than watch OG medalists Lipinski or Hughes. I really think people still have their blinders on. Only Kwan gave performance a consideration. The rest? Pfft. I'd rather see the Russian ladies battle it all out at the Olympics.

 

[Mathman]

Stroking down the ice as if the wind is flying through your hair, like a soaring bird, an unbroken line of beauty, in preparation for a climatic jump or other element.

I agree 100% This "stroking down the ice with the wind flying though your hair" into a jump is also known as telegraphing. Somehow telegraphing is now regarded as a negative feature instead of a positive one. Nowadays you get more credit if you just elevate into the air with no apparent preparation at all (or possibly with some extranepous do-dads that count as a "creative entrance").

"That jump came out of nowhere." Somewhere along the line that morphed into a good thing in the mind of the ISU.

 

[Minz]

I agree 100% This "stroking down the ice with the wind flying though your hair" into a jump is also known as telegraphing. Somehow telegraphing is now regarded as a negative feature instead of a positive one. Nowadays you get more credit if you just elevate into the air with no apparent preparation at all (or possibly with some extranepous do-dads that count as a "creative entrance").

"That jump came out of nowhere." Somewhere along the line that morphed into a good thing in the mind of the ISU.

It’s funny because I was watching what I recall to be Surya Bonaly’s 1998 Nagano FS a few days ago, and IIRC, the commentators were saying something along the lines of ”you can tell when she is going to jump. The judges don’t like that, they want it to appear out of nowhere“

 

[Mathman]

It’s funny because I was watching what I recall to be Surya Bonaly’s 1998 Nagano FS a few days ago, and IIRC, the commentators were saying something along the lines of ”you can tell when she is going to jump. The judges don’t like that, they want it to appear out of nowhere“

That is a good point. I am thinking mostly about the pre-quad days when the triple Axel was the big deal in men's skating. Todd Eldredge was a good example of a skater who spent the first 30 seconds nor so of his program setting up for his -- ta-da! -- triple Axel. I always thought that this was very effective. It was like -- wait for it, wait for it, here it comes, here it comes, HERE IT IS!!!!

In general, though, I think that skating these days is very much like it has always been. We have the feeling that jumping has become more important than blade-to-ice and presentation skills. But it has always been that way. Carol Heiss won 5 world championships and two Olympic medals not because of breathtaking grace but because she could do a double Axel. Michelle Kwan won many a contest on the "second mark," but in 1998 her main emphasis was in upgrading her SP to include a triple flip rather than a solo triple toe, in order to keep up with the competition.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Really, both had the two of the three worst flutzes in history (Bobek between the two, Hughes's was so bad and prerotated and UR'd it wasn't even a double...). Hughes with her flutzy, UR'd jumps would have been lucky to be top 10 in SLC. Lipinski would not have fared very well either. And neither of them, to me at least, possessed the skating skills, ability and performance that I would EVER look back on how good skating "used to be".

Their Olympic performances were magical. The freedom and joy they showed is not seen in any competitive performance these days. You're very much exaggerating about Hughes Lutz "not even being a double", but regardless things were just different back then. If they had to do a better lutz edge and such, then they would have worked on it more. Hughes focused much more on overall form, the exquisite spin and spiral positions.

Lipinski didn't prerotate so much like most people these days. Her sit spins got super far down. So in these aspects she showed superior technique to what others are doing now.

 

[anonymoose_au]

agree 100% This "stroking down the ice with the wind flying though your hair" into a jump is also known as telegraphing.

Ha ha we must have the same old school bias going on.

I'm also bummed by jump exits, like skaters' used to have such nice running edges coming out of jumps and it was really satisfying.

Now transitions are where it's at and it's got to the point where you're like "Did they mess that up? Or was that supposed to happen." And transitions seem like a "cover" for insecure landings sometimes. "Can't hold that edge? Just jump to the other foot or do a Twizzle!" You even get more points for it!

 

[Minz]

Now transitions are where it's at and it's got to the point where you're like "Did they mess that up? Or was that supposed to happen." And transitions seem like a "cover" for insecure landings sometimes. "Can't hold that edge? Just jump to the other foot or do a Twizzle!" You even get more points for it!

I know, but honestly there have been some great saves with transitions for insecure landings.

 

[skylark]

I re-watched Volosozhar/Trankov's Romeo and Juliet (thanks to another thread), and it seems like such a great example of what I said earlier in this thread. The CBC commentator mentioned at the end that Maxim and Tanya had such a wonderful on-ice connection, and then she said Max never had that with his previous partner, Maria Mukhortova. So I watched one of Maria/Max's best LPs to compare, and I agree -- even though Maria and Max skated together for 7 full seasons.

Max is not short on ego (even as a coach!) so it's not that. It's that with Tanya, something superseded his ego, his great elements, his desire to win. Max has said that he'd wanted to skate with Tanya for years before she was free. I wonder if he didn't always see that in her, something greater than elements, edges, transitions, drama. And he wanted it.

That "something greater," the emotion, is what I live for in skating, whether it's from present day or "the old days."

(the following video, V/T's first Worlds after skating together about a year, shows what they have that unfortunately in my opinion another very experienced pair with other partners who are newly partnered, Knierim/Frazier, don't have. At least not yet.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCsxjgjG_2o - Tanya & Max at their first Worlds, 2011 - Romeo and Juliet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RiCSdMaurY - Maria & Max at Europeans, 2010 - Love Story

Nina Mozer said fairly recently that many skaters see a program as performing elements, with some skating in between -- when it should be the opposite. I agree. Elena Bechke said last month that a program needs to have wholeness and be an entity. (She made a circle with her hand.) She may have said like a poem, or I might have supplied that word. A poem, a song, a story, a feeling.

Something complete unto itself in which the skaters express that something. It can be anything, as long as the skaters mean what they're expressing and it comes from the inside out. They revel in the jumps and other athletic tricks, but it's all connected by what lies underneath: the unspoken, the emotion, the movement, the heart and soul. The impulse behind the desire to skate.

 

[Zora]

When I became a figure skating fan back in 2001, I loved the step sequences. To me, it was always the highlight of a program. For the ladies, there was also the spiral sequence. Those were the moments that made me a fan and made me re-watch a program a thousand times. Nowadays the step sequences may be more difficult, but to me it looks like the skaters are just turning and turning endlessly and rarely express the character of the music. The choreo sequences are even more disappointing, because the skaters have the freedom to do whatever they want, but it seems like they can't think outside the box anymore. Or they don't want to, because they will get the same points anyway.