2021 Cranberry Cup Int'l - Senior Pairs FS

[BlissfulSynergy]

A very Eteri program for T/M, but not in a bad way. They have two very good programs. Also, it's already very matured and ready for competition, so hopefully they haven't peaked too early.

It's NOT an Eteri program (in the sense that she's pulling from a lot of other influences, and she didn't do it by herself). She's been boning up on everything that's been going on in pairs over the last 4 to 5 years. Looking at lots of videos, I'm sure. Eteri knows packaging, which she learned from her many years in the U.S. Boom!

Eteri is also helping boost T/M's confidence that they seem to have lost or misplaced over the last few years. And, as I said earlier, although Eteri will get all the credit, it is just that everything is coming together from what T/M have been given by a lot of different coaches over the years, including Mozer, Marina Zoueva, Robin Szolkowy, Maxim Trankov, and now Zhulin and Eteri, plus competing with the stellar James/Cipres in the final three seasons of their career when they had absolutely amazing programs (I don't care if no one wants to ever credit J/C for the excitement and innovation they brought to pairs, especially under Zimmerman, and with the help of ice dance choreographers). That's a huge factor in what we are seeing throughout the pairs discipline today.

For God sakes, with T/M's talent and all the help they've been given, and the competition they've been up against, they better by now do something this year. For sure, they could emote more, but it doesn't seem to be their thing. No, all they need to do is skate this beautifully. They will finally get gold. I do think their FS is better than their sp. But the sp isn't bad either. As I said, make way for Queen Eteri swaggering and getting all the credit. LOL!!! Someone give Maxim Trankov and Zhulin some beers and claps on their backs, at the very least! Tee hee!

Congrats T/M. Keep up the good work. It only makes the pairs discipline better, and watching pairs more sublime fun for us fans.

 

[Amei]

They've had some wonderful costumes! From the Lord of the Dance green to Zhenya's Glam! dress and of course for Rach 2!

But no one can forgive them for the bumblebee costumes that happened during an Olympic year

 

[coldblueeyes]

It's NOT an Eteri program. She's simply been boning up on everything that's been going on in pairs. Looking at lots of videos, I'm sure. Eteri knows packaging, which she learned from her many years in the U.S. Boom!

You completely went over the simple point I made. It is, in a nutshell, a very Eteri program. Some aimless armography. I didn't even say it's bad, because it's not, but it's a lot more upper body movement than these two ever showed. That was all I wanted to say, not to take the credit away from anyone.

Onto the matter of pairs elements, not sure where she would even input other than jumps. It's probably the extent of what she can do, besides providing help for her skaters.

 

[Andrea82]

The Crafoords achieved the minimum TES for Worlds in both SP and FS here. They didn't have it yet.

Pfund/Santillan achived minimum TES for Europeans in both segments. They also achieved the FS minimum TES for Worlds. They were less than 2 points short in the SP (they need 27).

Kops/Kranopolski achived minimums for Europeans.

 

[auser]

It's NOT an Eteri program. She's simply been boning up on everything that's been going on in pairs. Looking at lots of videos, I'm sure. Eteri knows packaging, which she learned from her many years in the U.S. Boom!

And, as I said earlier, although Eteri will get all the credit, it is just that everything is coming together from what T/M have been given by a lot of different coaches over the years, including Mozer, Marina Zoueva, Robin Szolkowy, Maxim Trankov, and now Zhulin and Eteri, plus competing with the stellar James/Cipres in the final three seasons of their career when they had absolutely amazing programs (I don't care if no one wants to ever credit J/C for the excitement and innovation they brought to pairs, especially under Zimmerman, and with the healp of ice dance choreographers). That's a huge factor in what we are seeing throughout the pairs discipline today.

For God sakes, with T/M's talent and all the help they've been given, and the competition they've been up against, they better by now do something this year. For sure, they could emote more, but it doesn't seem to be their thing. No, all they need to do is skate this beautifully. They will finally get gold. I do think their FS is better than their sp. But the sp isn't bad either. As I said, make way for Queen Eteri swaggering and getting all the credit. LOL!!! Someone give Maxim Trankov and Zhulin some beers and claps on their backs, at the very least! Tee hee!

Congrats T/M. Keep up the good work. It only makes the pairs discipline better, and watching pairs more sublime fun for us fans.

I'm with you on J/C pairs excitement and innovation.

 

[anonymoose_au]

But no one can forgive them for the bumblebee costumes that happened during an Olympic year

Except me... Because I loved those costumes, they were so cute. Vladimir's polkadot tie always made my day.

Yeah this is the hill I die on

 

[Jeanie19]

Except me... Because I loved those costumes, they were so cute. Vladimir's polkadot tie always made my day.

Yeah this is the hill I die on

I loved the bumblebee costumes, too.

 

[Amei]

Except me... Because I loved those costumes, they were so cute. Vladimir's polkadot tie always made my day.

Yeah this is the hill I die on

They weren't terrible costumes, they just felt like something more appropriate for a junior team not a senior olympic team. They weren't as bad as Szolkowy/Savchenko's very literally interpreted Send in the Clown costumes - thankfully that was their SP where those costumes did not get immortalized in podium pictures.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

You completely went over the simple point I made. It is, in a nutshell, a very Eteri program. Some aimless armography. I didn't even say it's bad, because it's not, but it's a lot more upper body movement than these two ever showed. That was all I wanted to say, not to take the credit away from anyone.

Onto the matter of pairs elements, not sure where she would even input other than jumps. It's probably the extent of what she can do, besides providing help for her skaters.

Yeah, I meant something different. Fine, give her credit for co-choreographer. There are a lot of influences in pairs, and in skating altogether. She's clearly getting a lot from the trends that have already been happening. Like the touching each other's hands moves. We see a lot of that. Some choreographer came up with that, or a skater improvised that, and it's been emulated, modified, etc. But on the broader scale, Savchenko/Szolkowy/ Steuer's movement style influence is still being seen in pairs. As well as, the cross-fertilization from ice dance generated via ice dance choreographers such as John Kerr (who is now choreographing with his sister -- they choreographed L/O's fp); Guillaume Cizeron; Benoit; Dubreuil, Charlie White. This ice dance influence is epitomized in what James/Cipres brought to the ice over the last 3 years of their career, as well as Savchenko/Massot and their work with Chris Dean, and John Kerr.

I'm a pairs aficionado, so I notice the broader influences. I think it's exciting. And it's nice to see Eteri having success with T/M. At the very least, she didn't throw anything too overly gimmicky into the mix. I'm sure Max and Zhulin helped temper that tendency. I'm not saying Eteri deserves no credit. Just that she will get all the credit if T/M do end up winning Olympic gold. We still have to wait to see what Sui/Han will be bringing to the ice in their home country, and what the younger Russian teams will be bringing under Moskvina & crew's tutelage.

 

[lariko]

They've had some wonderful costumes! From the Lord of the Dance green to Zhenya's Glam! dress and of course for Rach 2!

The only one I remember that was not drab was yellow polka dot dress…

 

[gold12345]

That was seriously one of Tarasova and Morozov's best ever skates. It feels like a rare treat when they skate a LP clean. They missed a lift level and could have done the SBS combo slightly better, but that's being very nitpicky for August. You don't want them to peak in August, obviously, and in some ways I'm wondering why they already look so ready for the season, but still, that was quite a skate. Maybe giving them two programs they feel comfortable with will give them more confidence? Yes, the LP feels a little bit like a copycat of Savchenko and Massot, but it suits them. So far this experiment with Eteri coaching pairs seems to be working. I don't know if she does more than just manage them, but they don't seem scared of her, so that's good haha.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I loved the bumblebee costumes, too.

The costumes were pure kitsch, and it could have worked had the approach, theme, and choreo fit T/M's personality. No, it was NOT right for them. And they simply couldn't play it off either. I mean, please! Sure T/M have always had great SS and talent. But that program was a response to J/C's Earned It, and it simply didn't work. T/M should never have won with that fp the France GP in 2017 over J/C's Say Something brilliance! Everybody knows that whether they want to acknowledge it or not. Even T/M knew it, and that's why and where T/M began to falter in confidence. Right there.

T/M knew good and well they didn't deserve to win gold at 2017 France GP, but the judges threw it at them because it's like a mantra that T/M have superior SS, and judges clearly didn't want to reward James/Cipres too much. Simple as that. Period.

Thus T/M went through a slide in confidence from that point on, which Mozer and Szolkowy were unable to prevent getting out of hand. The judges, in part, caused it. That's figure skating for you. Hopefully, T/M are shaking themselves out of it. Part of their problem was not finding the right material, and not being able to show their emotions that well on the ice, etc. Ironically, they've shown emotion much better in exhibition programs than they have in their competitive programs. Hopefully, they are able to grow and emote more over the course of the season with these two programs vs some good competition in the pairs field. I'm stoked!

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I for sure thought they'd go over the winning skate at Worlds this year. Very good score anyway.

It's yet early in the season. But the judges love rewarding a Russian team like this with all the goods, when they bring it consistently. The judges enjoy rewarding any skater with talent and rep, who they can trust to be consistent. That way the judges don't have to think too much. LOL. The humongous points given become moot for the most part, whenever the skating and everything else comes together this effectively. Top-notch skating like this provides an exciting atmosphere of excellence for the pairs discipline. One of the teams the judges always seemed to manage scores on though was James/Cipres at their exciting best, for reasons, having nothing to do with J/C's talent and consistency on the elements.

I think that Mishina/Galliamov were excessively scored, but the judges get excited when they see something good from a talented team who go perfectly clean. And let's not forget the mistakes made by the other top contenders at 2021 Worlds. It helped M/G to advance for the win with their clean performance. M/G still are rough around the edges in terms of authentic connection with each other, maturity, etc. I'm sure Moskvina will be helping them bring something competitive again this season. Moskvina is the reason that B/K and M/G vaulted to the top so quickly. Plus, T/M's problems, which hopefully will be a thing of the past this season.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Wow Alexa and Brandon are killing it!

I wonder if they'll get new costumes, these are last season's ones right?

OMG super nervous for T/M and rather concerned... apparently they're skating to "Lighthouse" didn't Aliona and Bruno use that for their Olympic season

Sure-fire retread by Eteri & Co. But at least, T/M with help of the choreography and confidence-boosting, Eteri-method, get the spark they need to make this program their own. The gray costumes are also surely inspired by J/C's gray groove during their Say Something season.

Whatever it takes obviously to give T/M the rev and the jumpstart they need to give themselves a chance for Olympic gold. That has to be the only reason they've hung in there this far. The judges hear the music and are reminded of greatness, eh. LOL! T/M be best to continue living up to it this well.

T/M got some gifts from judges in the sp. But realizing they were far ahead due to the judges refusing to allow K/F and C/J to break 70 pts, helped T/M to relax apparently. No matter if T/M made another mistake in the fp, they were far ahead enough to win overall. I'm glad they at least performed beautifully. And I hope to see in future comps when the pressure is more intense, that T/M will still rise to the occasion.

 

[ice_tulip]

Oh dear, some lift issues for L/M. I do like this program for them more than what they have done in the past.

Yeah, I really liked their program. If they can skate it cleanly they'll be medal contenders at US Nat'ls (along with quite a few other teams, admittedly -- US pairs is super competitive now!!).

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I really like this program for T/M, but why do there always have bleak costumes?

These are quite lovely costumes, IMHO. Nothing wrong with their costumes. They follow along nicely with the current styling trend. Nothing bleak about sparkling gray turning into Olympic gold, eh! As long as Eteri can help T/M stay in this good groove. I reeallly want to see T/M rise to the occasion under competitive pressure and truly earn all the accolades. I guess that's why Savchenko's music. Right? Hearing this music reminds us of something quite fantastic like pulling victory out of defeat from 4th to first at the Olympic games, after a long career of trying and missing Olympic gold. When Savchenko finally won in such grand style, it gave everyone chills who knew about her journey and had witnessed every moment.

Eteri & crew are hoping for the same. They want the credit for the glory too, when really, they are clearly pulling from a lot of influences to get T/M over the hump of their own confounding lapses. All these years, everyone can see how good T/M are, but even with constant gifts from the judges, they've had trouble proving they have what it takes when victory is right in front of them.

 

[ice_tulip]

But I'm so glad the judges went with [Chan/Howe]. They definitely deserve to be in first over L/O. Good luck to C/H the rest of this season. Maybe they will get the TBA at SA, or it may go to C/J.

Out of all the pairs, I enjoyed Chan/Howe the most. They have both strong SP and FP! I'm super excited about them. Although C/J have been my fav pair for the past couple seasons, I'm getting frustrated with Jessica's jumping problems which seem to be getting worse instead of better. I actually think C/H deserve the SA TBA, but I would be shocked if they get the spot over C/J. I think C/H would benefit more from the SA spot and need it more than C/J.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Hearing this music reminds us of something quite fantastic like pulling victory out of defeat from 4th to first at the Olympic games

I have to say I don't agree with this at all. When you use music that's so identifiable with a skater you invite comparisons. And more often than not those comparisons are not good.

Will fans really see it the way you do? Or will they remember how much they enjoyed Aliona and Bruno's skating and how boring T/M are instead?

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

US pairs is super competitive now!

U.S. pairs has been super competitive for years with wonderful talent and depth. That's why the U.S. pairs championship has changed hands so often. Let's be honest. It's just that top U.S. teams were felled by illness and injury for a few tough seasons, thus as a result, the top U.S. teams lost momentum on the world stage. As we know, everyone has enjoyed looking down on U.S. pairs, and some fans are still unwilling to give the U.S. pairs discipline its due, when U.S. teams have been pretty strong and nothing to sneeze at for years.

What we are seeing now is the flowering of what has been slowly on the rise for awhile. U.S. pairs has a strong and exciting legacy going back decades, which needs to be better recognized, valued, and appreciated on the world stage.

 

[ice_tulip]

It's obvious there's a quality difference between C/H and C/J, but the former skated better here. At least in the overall sense.

Besides the twist, I don't see any obvious big differences in quality... I wasn't there live, but those who were stated they were impressed with C/H's speed which has improved substantially. And C/H's throws are actually a little better than C/J's, the latter of which gets very little ice coverage. I think C/H's SBS are less unreliable too. Both teams have excellent posture, carriage and presentation. C/J's lifts are superior but C/H's are quite good so it's not a glaring difference. I think C/H's spins are better -- faster with good unison. Perhaps C/J look more "expensive" and well-packaged, but that has nothing to do with their skating quality.