USFS to Send Liu, Zhou to Nebelhorn Trophy

[dorispulaski]

Some choices countries have made, and guesses at why they chose that way:
1. Scheduling. The event scheduled closest to the team event is likely to have the #2 team member/pair skate, especially in the FS (2018 Russian Ladies), especially if the top two are nearly equal.
2. Perceived inconsistency. One skater may be known as a sp specialist, another as a better at the fs (US 2014 Men's)
3. The top skater may simply choose not to skate one or both events (Hanyu? 2018)
4. The top skater is so much better than the second skater, he/she naturally skates both events ( Kostner 2018) (Davis/White dance 2014)( Chan 2018)
5. Only one entrant from the country qualified (Castelli/Shnapir pairs 2014)
6. Only two disciplines can be split between 2 of a team's skater's

In 2018, for example
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_skating_at_the_2018_Winter_Olympics_–_Team_event

The FS is only competed by the Top teams in the SP. For the men in 2018:

Patrick Chan (CAN) skated both SP and FS
Mattie Rizzo (ITA) skated both
Mikhail Kolyada (RUS) skated both
The US split between Chen & Rippon
Japan split between Uno & Tanaka

Chen is overwhelmingly more likely to score high than any other US man, so if he is willing, I hope he skates both team events..

 

[el henry]

Chen is overwhelmingly more likely to score high than any other US man, so if he is willing, I hope he skates both team events..

Agreed, but I do think the "willing" part is the most important.

I cannot see Nathan agreeing to skate the LP one day before the men's individual SP. He didn't want to do it at the last Olys, and his chances ETA: for individual medal, and in particular gold, I believe, are considerably better in these Olys.

I would not blame him for only skating the SP

 

[dorispulaski]

But perhaps he would prefer to win a team medal rather than no team medal.

 

[el henry]

But perhaps he would prefer to win a team medal rather than no team medal.

You make a good point and as last Olys showed, nothing is certain, not even an individual medal. There is something to be said for the Team Canada, let's take it seriously, approach.

It is a gamble.

 

[Sjs5572]

I agree. Besides, I think there could be a scheduling issue with the men's FS in the team event taking place the day before the men's SP in the individual event. I think it's the next day or only one day in-between. So I could see the U.S. entering 2 men in the team event (with Nathan only doing the sp).

As of now, men's team lp is Feb 6 and men's individual sp is Feb. 8.

 

[sheetz]

As of now, men's team lp is Feb 6 and men's individual sp is Feb. 8.

Curious where you are seeing that. According to this schedule men's team FS is Feb 7 and individual SP is Feb 8.

I cannot imagine any top men's contender wanting to skate both segments of the Team Event. Kolyada may have to, being the top man in Russia's weakest discipline, but unfortunately that could very well ruin his chances for an individual medal.

 

[Sjs5572]

Curious where you are seeing that. According to this schedule men's team FS is Feb 7 and individual SP is Feb 8.

I cannot imagine any top men's contender wanting to skate both segments of the Team Event. Kolyada may have to, being the top man in Russia's weakest discipline, but unfortunately that could very well ruin his chances for an individual medal.

Figure skating at the 2022 Winter Olympics - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Of course, wiki is not always accurate.

 

[Amei]

Figure skating at the 2022 Winter Olympics - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Of course, wiki is not always accurate.

Here is the schedule on the Olympic website: https://olympics.com/en/beijing-2022/schedule-by-sport/figure-skating/

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

This is his last chance to prove that Worlds was a fluke. I'm sure he's fallen out of favor with the Fed and this may be his final chance at redemption. Now, I've heard that there might be a ban on US skaters entering the country, is that True?

Not sure what you mean by last chance? This is his first international competition since Worlds 2021 isn’t it? Clearly he hasn’t fallen out of favour if he is getting this chance.

Also he lost the FS by 0.17 and in the FS almost certainly would have pulled up. To dump a skater because of one short program would be stupid. Especially given Zhou has otherwise been solid and has way more scoring potential in a total competition compared to most of the other Us guys.

 

[anonymoose_au]

He just needs to be top 7 (and realistically maybe top 8, since Sweden may very well give back its spot).

I'm still peeved on Nikolai Alexander Marjarov's behalf about that (mixed up my Marjarov's although I think Nikolai's about to the scrrewed over too). I mean what the Hell, Swedish Olympic Committee? Denying a perfectly good skater the spot he earned because he won't win? The IOC should have sanctioned them for that and they should never be allowed to do it again. Imagine losing out on the Olympics not because there's a better skater in your country but because your own Olympic Fed is precious about only having "winners".

Maybe the Swedish Olympic Fed should brush up on the Olympic Charter.

Anyway, good luck to Vincent who a lot of people hate for reasons entirely out of skating, led by a group of Twitterati who have clearly never messed up in their lives, or at least I assume so otherwise they're mighty big hypocrites.

 

[mrrice]

Not sure what you mean by last chance? This is his first international competition since Worlds 2021 isn’t it? Clearly he hasn’t fallen out of favour if he is getting this chance.

Also he lost the FS by 0.17 and in the FS almost certainly would have pulled up. To dump a skater because of one short program would be stupid. Especially given Zhou has otherwise been solid and has way more scoring potential in a total competition compared to most of the other Us guys.

I agree with you 100%. I would also add that Vincent has defeated Jason 3 out of the 5 times they've competed against each other at Nationals. Other than Nathan, Vincent is the only active US Man to Medal at Worlds. However, If you read back through the various threads, you'll see that Vincent seems to be under a huge amount of pressure to prove that Worlds was a fluke. With his Base Value, Vincent is the clear #2 US Skater when he delivers. It's all up to him if goes to the games.

 

[Tavi...]

I’m sure he hasn’t fallen out of favor and I’m also sure he’ll do very well at Nebelhorn, but it’s kind of silly to say he “only” missed the free by .017. Making the free was the whole point for Olympic qualifying, so whether he missed the cutoff by .017 or by 10+ points is pretty irrelevant.

 

[el henry]

I’m sure he hasn’t fallen out of favor and I’m also sure he’ll do very well at Nebelhorn, but it’s kind of silly to say he “only” missed the free by .017. Making the free was the whole point for Olympic qualifying, so whether he missed the cutoff by .017 or by 10+ points is pretty irrelevant.

This.

Vincent finished in the SP behind my boy Donovan Carrillo. Now I of course Donovan, but I don't care if it's sixty points or .06 points, to finish ahead of Vincent? Ivan Shmuratko? Lukas Britschgi? (no disrespect to those skaters, but again, the amount of points is irrelevant. They qualified for the free, ahead of Vincent) And this is not the first and only time that Vincent has "blown" a skate, so it is not some never before seen anomaly.

That said, I expect Vincent to skate well at Nebelhorn and I expect him to place in the top six. He will probably win. I don't think he is out of favor with USFS, but I don't think he can run around going "my BV, my BV" and expect that in and of itself to carry the day for an Oly spot. The thing is, I believe Vincent knows that, knows that he needs to prove himself in comps, he is motivated to do so, and that's keeping him focused.

Good, we need that focus at Nebelhorn

 

[mrrice]

After his performances and scores at the Cranberry Cup, I'm feeling better about Vincent. It wasn't called but, I thought he UR'd the first quad in his SP. Nice score breaking the 100 barrier with a 103.71

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

But perhaps he would prefer to win a team medal rather than no team medal.

Vincent or Jason would probably only finish two spots lower in a LP than Nathan, which I don't think would cost the US a medal.

 

[Skater Boy]

Figure skating at the 2022 Winter Olympics - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Of course, wiki is not always accurate.

Chen it would seem be the obvious choice for both sp and fs in the team event at the olympics. It is a two team battle for gold and silver between Russia and the US. It could be close. Russia has an edge in ladies but a mistake in the sp especially and Liu can beat them. Men's is Russia's achille heel. Ice dance is a toss up between either of the top American teams or I/K. Pairs would tend to favour Russia but a mistake in the sp in particular and US could beat Russia. The right results and Nathan could have a huge lead for the US with Koyada or whoever behind say Japan, Canada, and maybe China or Italy.

 

[skylark]

For the original subject of this thread, Zhou and Liu being sent to Nebelhorn ... Missions accomplished, brilliantly!

Vincent and Alysa both having won. Zhou with a more than 40-point margin.

 

[ana]

Congratulations to Alysa and Vincent! Well deserved gold medal. They were amazing.

 

[Olympic]

USFSA - smart choices that paid off. Both Alysa and Vincent won. Alysa has now won 2 major intl. events this year = momentum!

 

[icybear]

USFSA - smart choices that paid off. Both Alysa and Vincent won. Alysa has now won 2 major intl. events this year = momentum!

LOL they're just challenger competitions hardly major competition. The only serious competitor she faced was You young and Mariah bell whose chance of even making to the olympics are looking slim