2021-2022 US Women's Figure Skating

[el henry]

I know we're all excited for Alysa, Lindsay, and Isabeau, but why are we already giving up on Bradie, Mariah, Amber, and Karen?

I may not be one to talk, since I don't follow the ladies so closely, but I for one am far from giving up on Mariah, Bradie, Karen or Amber.

I do think based on what she has done so far, Alysa is making a strong case for herself. I think Lindsay and Isabeau are very outside shots.

Then again, my fav (male) skater, year after year, some young gun with jumps is going to outdo him and drive him off the Nats podium. And he's still here

 

[readernick]

I know we're all excited for Alysa, Lindsay, and Isabeau, but why are we already giving up on Bradie, Mariah, Amber, and Karen?

People are naturally negative and remember negative experiences more than positive. So, they remember only the bad performances of the more established skaters and not the good ones. Bradie has essentially only had one really bad competition in her senior career ...Worlds 2021 ( when she has skating with broken skates )but everyone focuses on that.

I agree with the above poster @el henry that Alysa is making a strong case for herself. She is a charming skater and very reliable.

Amber, Bradie, Karen, Lindsay, Mariah all have reasonable shots at the other spots. ( Bradie
is a bit more likely to succeed than the others if healthy imho because she is gritty) Audrey and Gabby seem like outside shots to me.

However, it really comes back to the fact that the season has just begun and we have no idea what the future holds.

 

[Dawn825]

While its true about remembering bad experiences more, I think the news about Bradie's injury is more responsible for people's doubts about her than her worlds performance. She skated well at Nationals last year, so most people are prepared to accept that her boots were responsible for the weak showing. But you can be as talented and hard working as you like, an injury can derail the most promising of careers. Hopefully she makes a full recovery - if she does, I think most people still think she absolutely belongs on the team.
Mariah has now had 2 really bad competitions in a row, not to mention at least 3 rlly unpopular programs. Almost nobody thinks that her main coach cares about her or whether she makes the team, and Adam is simply not experienced enough to get her anywhere on his own.
People say that Karen often has a weak start to the season and gets better, so hopefully that happens. But her technical content isnt impressive, and the artistic mark can only hold her up so high if she doesnt skate clean.
Amber's situation is the most unclear to me. She says the SP at Cranberry was a mess bec of an injury. So I guess we have to wait till she competes again to see where she's really at. But the 3A cant count in her favor till she lands it in competition imo. Even without it, if she can skate more clean free skates like the one she did at Nationals, I think she would be good for the team. But we just havent seen her enough to know whether she can be relied on.

Obviously there's way more to skating than the jumps, but I think many people are looking at the technical content of the russian ladies and struggling with the thought of the US sending skaters to the Olympics that cant really do 3-3s. Ergo prefering Lindsay on the team particularly over Mariah or Karen.

 

[macy]

IMO there are many sides to the situation with all the US women. Bradie, Mariah and Karen are the veterans meaning they have been the face of US womens skating for a few years now. they have been the highest competition the US can send in international competition and that definitely counts a lot. Karen is a past US champion, Bradie a two time and reigning US champion, Mariah a two time medalist. they undoubtedly get the sentimental favorite points and i think it would take a very inconsistent and bad season for all 3 of them to miss an olympic spot, especially Bradie who took the torch from Ashley Wagner when she retired. Bradie is a fighter and we should never count her out and Karen has a history of peaking at the right time, Mariah can create magic with the right programs and moment. i think we will see at least one of them on the team.

Amber is somewhere in the middle. she has shown shades of what she can be, but never when competing internationally. USFS doesn't take her seriously. she doesn't have the pull with the international judges like the first three do. she's gotta get it together this season if she's serious- she has to show the whole season she can be counted on and there is already doubt with her injury.

Alysa will take the torch from Bradie one day if not this season and now that she's senior eligible will 100% move up into that top group. After Bradie retires I can definitely see her winning more US titles. She is on the right track with changing the international judges' view of her from her junior years as a polished senior woman and i can't wait to see where she will be by the end of the GP series.

i don't see Audrey as a threat to make the team at all. Lindsey is definitely an outside shot, and i think they'd only take her if everyone else bombs at nationals which is unlikely. not impossible, but unlikely. Lindsey is making a case for herself as being reliable in international competition and able to hold her own, even if she is a junior. there is a chance she could pull a Polina Edmunds, but i just think there's too much competition for her to break through. we will see.

 

[Dawn825]

Personally I think Lindsay is a promising skater for the future but is probably too inexperienced to have good showing if she were to go to the Olympics. She would likely get the lowest PCS out of our top 5 and its unknown how she would handle that kind of huge pressure and audience. She definitely has shot though.

 

[beepboop]

I'm a little worried about Amber's odds of making the team. She doesn't have the record to be sent as a reliable, experienced veteran (like Bradie or Karen, or even Mariah), nor has she proven herself enough yet to be considered an exciting up-and-comer (like Alysa or Lindsay). Amber really needed an early season like Alysa's to build up her BOW and establish a reputation of reliability. At this point, even if she skates clean at Finlandia, both her GP assignments, and maybe an extra challenger or senior B, I'm not sure that 3-4 clean competitions will be enough to diminish her reputation as an inconsistent skater.

Unless she's the National champ this year or skates lights out at all her international assignments, I am starting to think it'll be difficult for her to make a case for herself after having missed these early months of competition. And she needs to land her 3A in international competition.

 

[readernick]

I'm a little worried about Amber's odds of making the team. She doesn't have the record to be sent as a reliable, experienced veteran (like Bradie or Karen, or even Mariah), nor has she proven herself enough yet to be considered an exciting up-and-comer (like Alysa or Lindsay). Amber really needed an early season like Alysa's to build up her BOW and establish a reputation of reliability. At this point, even if she skates clean at Finlandia, both her GP assignments, and maybe an extra challenger or senior B, I'm not sure that 3-4 clean competitions will be enough to diminish her reputation as an inconsistent skater.

Unless she's the National champ this year or skates lights out at all her international assignments, I am starting to think it'll be difficult for her to make a case for herself after having missed these early months of competition. And she needs to land her 3A in international competition.

I think it depends on how she is scored internationally. If international panels like her, the USFS will probably go along. USFS never liked Ashley Warner but she consistently scored better than the other US women, so they eventually accepted her and gave her decent scores domestically and sent her to the Olympics. If Amber doesn't land her 3A, but gets better international scores than the other US competitors I hope and I think the USFS would be smart enough to send her.

I suspect that if clean Amber's scores internationally wouldn't be too bad. She really is the most impressive of the US women to watch live ( I was also impressed with Bradie live but not as much as Amber) . As others have mentioned, she has so much power and one crossover sends her flying. However, my question is will she be clean? Amber has always been very talented, but she has also always been very inconsistent. Honestly, I like her skating more than the other US women but I also have more doubts about her likelihood of success than Bradie ( barring injury) or Alysa.

Mariah and Karen also seem like wildcards to me and they have more technical problems. But, again, everything we say here is basically just worthless speculation. Only time will tell.

 

[Skatesocs]

Amber is somewhere in the middle. she has shown shades of what she can be, but never when competing internationally. USFS doesn't take her seriously. she doesn't have the pull with the international judges like the first three do. she's gotta get it together this season if she's serious- she has to show the whole season she can be counted on and there is already doubt with her injury.

I think this is the right assessment of Glenn.

I think the team will end up being Karen, Bradie, and Alysa. Karen has shown the best SP choreography of the US ladies so far this season, and that's only the early season showing of it. Still want Audrey to somehow make it over Bradie though, lol.

 

[halulupu]

I may not be one to talk, since I don't follow the ladies so closely, but I for one am far from giving up on Mariah, Bradie, Karen or Amber.

I do think based on what she has done so far, Alysa is making a strong case for herself. I think Lindsay and Isabeau are very outside shots.

Then again, my fav (male) skater, year after year, some young gun with jumps is going to outdo him and drive him off the Nats podium. And he's still here

Sure, bradie and mariah can still make a turnaround. But at the moment lindsey is the number two. not even at their best ever the other ladies have a higher tech than lindsey. When was the last time bradie, mariah, or karen had a clean 3-3? i mean really clean and not thanks to nice judges. Of course especially bradie, karen and mariah deserve a spot for ther perseverance and extraordinary performance. But at the end of the day the resuts of this year should matter more

 

[Skatesocs]

When was the last time bradie, mariah, or karen had a clean 3-3? i mean really clean and not thanks to nice judges

Worlds 2021 SP.

 

[SnowWhite]

Alysa - anything can happen, but she is locking up her Olympic spot at this point imo
Bradie - her chances really depend on her health, if she's not injured then she's likely to make the team, because she usually delivers. But if injury affects her jumps and training, then who knows
Karen - her Worlds showing puts her in a really good place, and if she delivers at Nationals placing top 3 then I think she'll go. However, Autumn Classic was quite rough, she has technical problems and isn't very consistent. So to be put on the team if she doesn't do well at Nats, then I think she'd need some strong results this fall to be sure.
Mariah - the international judges like her, and will give her good scores. But she needs good programs and to show that she has her jumps in order. I think she has enough of a reputation that if she's great at Nationals, she'll probably go. But ideally, she needs to prove that she's bounced back during this fall season, to put herself in a good position. We'll see how she's looking in a couple of weeks
Amber - the injury is unfortunate, because she really needs to prove she can deliver consistently this fall. There's still time, but not a ton of room for rough skates I think. Actually landing the 3A would be very helpful, but in general skating clean. And I agree that we'll have to see how the judges rate her when she delivers well
Lindsay - I definitely think she's in the mix right now. She won't go over skaters like Karen, Bradie and Mariah if they skate well, but all of them have some question marks at this point. Lindsay has medaled at both her JGP events, may make the JGPF depending on how they do it, also had a great skate at Mids (so she's been consistent) and has good technical content. I wouldn't be shocked if she ends up making the team, though I don't think it's the most likely outcome.
Audrey - I think her making the team is really unlikely at this point.

 

[Skatesocs]

Also, for the team event, I think Alysa should skate both events. I know it's far off and nothing's confirmed, but she'd give the best shot for securing a medal for Team USA (although, of course, medals, jumps, rotation, teams, countries, nothing actually matters!).

 

[halulupu]

Worlds 2021 SP.

At least a quarter of rotation short! Even the commentator said it (4:45). https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uc53WmkXz5A
(Dont remember if it got called though)

I don't mind sending karen if she is able to rotate her jump. IMO her jump are gorgeous, and her spins and pcs clearly better than lindseys, but they will be easily punished in the current system

 

[alexocfp]

I know we're all excited for Alysa, Lindsay, and Isabeau, but why are we already giving up on Bradie, Mariah, Amber, and Karen?

In before Bradie wins nationals again. Haha

For the chasing pack, Can, should, will, beat her are all hypothetical words at this point. “Did” is the only word that counts, and so far it hasn’t been used.

To be champion, you need to defeat the champion. Bradie is the champion until someone takes the title away from her.

 

[Skatesocs]

At least a quarter of rotation short! Even the commentator said it (4:45). https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uc53WmkXz5A

Wasn't called. I think that one was fine enough (not perfect, but fine enough). But yes, she does usually tend to freeze up on the end of her 3Lz and has to pull into the 3T as a result (you can see it in this combo too), which tends to leave doubt and sometimes it is indeed short (but not as often as people on this thread seem to think it is). She hasn't done as much work as she should on this problem, IMO. The best +3T jumpers tend to have a lot of flow and control coming out of the opening jump, which Karen tends to lack specifically when doing +3T combos (lol). It's fine with her 2A+3T - but the 2A is an easier jump anyway.

I don't mind sending karen if she is able to rotate her jump. IMO her jump are gorgeous, and her spins and pcs clearly better than lindseys, but they will be easily punished in the current system

Agree that her jumps are gorgeous, when she hits (the bigger issue to me is that she rushes her takeoffs a lot of the time early in the season, and it leads to nasty falls or other errors - probably nerves. She almost goes too fast into her jumps). I think she should make sure to not do 3Lz+3T in the LP as she is again this season. She can easily rack up huge scores with just two 2A+3Ts strategically placed in the LP. Her PCS is the best in the US ladies, not just Lindsay's.

 

[el henry]

In before Bradie wins nationals again. Haha

For the chasing pack, Can, should, will, beat her are all hypothetical words at this point. “Did” is the only word that counts, and so far it hasn’t been used.

To be champion, you need to defeat the champion. Bradie is the champion until someone takes the title away form her.

I am minded (with the untimely death of Michael K Williams)

"You come for the king, you best not miss"

Applies to the queen as well

 

[bubblecherry]

Karen, Mariah, and Bradie can all rotate 3-3s when they are in good form both mentally and physically. Of course it’s more difficult for them being older, but the notion none of them can ever rotate a 3-3 ever again is ridiculous. These women will train to be at peak form for nationals and the Olympics, and I’m sure at least one of them will be doing relatively clean 7 triple layouts. Alysa is reliable but she is still often getting her 3-3s called under, too. Lindsay is only just beginning to get some of her 3-3s called clean.

The door is wide open and it’s only September.

 

[daffygirl]

Karen's jumps were a mess in the free skate at Autumn Classic and that cost her a medal. Only one triple was called clean. Hopefully she can turn it around fast.

Bradie of course has a strong chance of keeping her title but Alsya is coming for that title as well. I don't think Alysa has forgotten her fourth place finish last year and she is also a very tough competitor.

Lindsay, while she's more of a dark horse for the Olympic team, proved her competitive grit at JGP Ljublana. I could see her finishing on the podium at Nationals. She also quoted someone in her Instagram story who reminded people that Lindsay is age-eligible for the Olympics, so she's hungry for it.

 

[Skatesocs]

Karen, Mariah, and Bradie can all rotate 3-3s when they are in good form both mentally and physically. Of course it’s more difficult for them being older, but the notion none of them can ever rotate a 3-3 ever again is ridiculous.

I don't think it has to do with age. Mariah has poor technique on her jumps (no height or distance or flow... or any real quality). Bradie obviously suffered from issues last season, but at least she can rotate more than Mariah and does some nice transitions into them. Karen's jumps when she hits are rotated, mental issues notwithstanding, but she has the reputation of bombing and not delivering a lot of the time, even if it's fine later in the season, and it affects her perception with the audience and the judges. Personally, I wouldn't pay attention to the "UR issues concerns" or "" going on here Biases don't go only one way, as some claim. Or, of course, Amber Glenn might really hit all her 3As through the season, and prove us all wrong about her wealth of artistry and rotated jumps and high ceiling of scores and delivering when it counts.

 

[mrrice]

IMO there are many sides to the situation with all the US women. Bradie, Mariah and Karen are the veterans meaning they have been the face of US womens skating for a few years now. they have been the highest competition the US can send in international competition and that definitely counts a lot. Karen is a past US champion, Bradie a two time and reigning US champion, Mariah a two time medalist. they undoubtedly get the sentimental favorite points and i think it would take a very inconsistent and bad season for all 3 of them to miss an olympic spot, especially Bradie who took the torch from Ashley Wagner when she retired. Bradie is a fighter and we should never count her out and Karen has a history of peaking at the right time, Mariah can create magic with the right programs and moment. i think we will see at least one of them on the team.

Amber is somewhere in the middle. she has shown shades of what she can be, but never when competing internationally. USFS doesn't take her seriously. she doesn't have the pull with the international judges like the first three do. she's gotta get it together this season if she's serious- she has to show the whole season she can be counted on and there is already doubt with her injury.

Alysa will take the torch from Bradie one day if not this season and now that she's senior eligible will 100% move up into that top group. After Bradie retires I can definitely see her winning more US titles. She is on the right track with changing the international judges' view of her from her junior years as a polished senior woman and i can't wait to see where she will be by the end of the GP series.

i don't see Audrey as a threat to make the team at all. Lindsey is definitely an outside shot, and i think they'd only take her if everyone else bombs at nationals which is unlikely. not impossible, but unlikely. Lindsey is making a case for herself as being reliable in international competition and able to hold her own, even if she is a junior. there is a chance she could pull a Polina Edmunds, but i just think there's too much competition for her to break through. we will see.

One the biggest surprises for me last season was how disappointing I found Mariah Bell. She was just amazing in 2020 and I really thought she'd become Champion in 2021. I haven't seen her yet this season but, the reports have not been great. Of the Veterans, I think Bradie is the only real threat to repeat as Champion. Unfortunately, this season has not started off in the best way so, from what I have seen personally, I think Alysa and Lindsay look good for the podium and the vets can fight it out for the last spot.