What rule changes would you like to see next season?

[Jontor]

TBH...I almost think we should go back to 6.0.

There's so much arguing over the scores, especially between competitions. The IJS was meant to be quantitive where skaters are not compared to each other but rather the notion of a perfect jump, spin, step sequence etc. But lets face it, the judges DO compare skaters in competition, it's why PCS and GOE is so wonky.

How many times do you hear people say "The placements are right, but the scores aren't."?

6.0 was at least honest in saying it's a comparison between skaters at a particular competition.

Or at the very least revamp PCS and drum it into the judges that it's entirety possible to get a 5 in transitions and a 10 in performance.

I get your point. And sometimes I wish that too. But people complaining about political voting nowadays? It was way much worse under the 6.0 imo.

 

[ladyjane]

After every Olympic cycle there seem to be some rule changes. What changes to you think are going to happen?

I expect more definitions on jumps and rotations. But I am torn about this. One of the things I don't like is when I see a good skate, and then when the scores come up the tech has magically gone down with 10 points. This is not audience friendly and the ISU should know this. It is in the ISU's interest to make this sport more popular and that includes making it understandable for the audience. I have watched several competitions with "non"-FS fans and they are just confused when this happens. And it is safe to say they lost their interest immediately because it is too complicated. Maybe a simple solution is that whenever there is a questionmark on an edge or UR this shows in the scorebox? And the tech goes down with it? I've seen national Russian competitions where they already are doing this. It would be much better if we have increased scores instead, if the tech panel after reviewing changes their mind.

Step Sequences:
I really hope there will be some change in the basics here. Now, you have certain turns and things to do to get a level 4. But imo it kills the creativeness of step seq's and it makes them look generic and boring. Gone are the days when you can just go full crazy with your steps, it used to be a crowd pleasing moment.
Instead I want a more difficulty based level system, and then you can judge the steps and turns in the GOEs.

Spins:
Same here with spins. I want a change in the basics here. There is a lot of slow, simple, ugly, awfully done spins out there that gets level 4, just because they hold a position for X turns. And then they get +GOE as well! Again, it kills the creativity imo. I remember the mother of all spins, Lucinda Ruh, who used to have some variations where she constantly changed position in a wonderful way. That would never get level 4 now.

I'll try to go into each of your suggestions @Jontor. And add some more (sorry).

First the definitions of jumps and rotations. I agree with you mostly, except that I think it's even worse than this. Casual fans (I define the OG audience for the greatest part as that) don't even understand why a skate with falls can win from a clean one. There are reasons for that happening - usually because the fall is during a difficult 4 rotation jump and the clean one doesn't have quadruples. But many people can't see the difference between a quad and a triple, let alone see the difference between a landed jump and a UR. Your suggestion about the scorebox is a good one. They tried something like that at the last OG (I recall Savchenko and Massot having no reviews, just green dots) but I suspect the current tech box seemed more clear - and it does help in following the tech content. I don't know what you can do exactly about making clear that a skates with falls can have more points than a clean skate. I know, you know, many skating fans know why. But to someone who just watches every four years? I don't know.

Step sequences: I love step sequences. I don't think they're boring nowadays but I do miss some of the crazy ones in the earlier days when it wasn't about the number of turns and, how long you can continue on one leg.. But then, I am old! Haha.

Spins: high levels are really to easily achieved in my view. Easy for me to say of course, as I'm only a simple adult skater who gets the basic level at best. But I agree that even slow spins get high levels sometimes (which I don't agree with), as well as awkard positions do. And the Bielmann has become boring. I suppose we should put Stephane Lambiel and Lucinda Ruh together to set up a new system of levels as well as positions with room for creativity. Might take a while.

What about the basic skating skills? I really think skaters who show these off well, should get rewarded for it - and that doesn't just apply to Ice Dancers. THere are skaters whose simple cross-overs make you chill. Get that in a judgement (but I realise it's probably impossible). And performance - and I don't just mean facial expressions. I mean those who can take an audience with them, move them, get them to completely enjoy what they are seeing. Difficult to judge, that's true. Transitions are also desputable: on the one hand nobody likes the too long set ups for jumps, on the other certain skates seem to be too cluttered - just to get transitions in. I would like to see extended landings (B/K used to do that very well) valued more.

 

[Jeanie19]

I shouldn't need to say this, but... READ. THE. DAMN. CODE. The ISU communication you're looking for is here: https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/rules/fsk-communications/24665-isu-communication-2334/file

Spins have 11 possible level features (13 for a layback), only one of which is holding the same position for 8 revolutions. The reason so many skaters use the same level features is simply that some of them are easier than others, and there's really no benefit to using a harder feature if you can get a level 4 with easier ones. Now, this said, if the ISU wanted to split the level features for spins into tiers one, two and three depending on the difficulty, and have, say, a tier three feature be worth X2 tier one features to encourage use of more difficult features, I wouldn't complain. However, this would make judging a lot more complicated, so I doubt that's going to happen.

Now, what I would actually like to see:

1. A couple more level features added for step sequences, so that skaters can pick and choose which features to use based on their strengths in order to get a level 4 the same way that they can with spins (and so that a few will ditch the "Use of body movements for at least 1/3 of the pattern" feature)
2. An increase in base value for level 3 and 4 spins and step sequences - the difference in base value between triple and quadruple jumps is large enough that doing a triple when your opponent does a quad can take you off of the podium, but the difference between a level 3 and 4 spin or steps is negligible, and there should be a bigger point gap between each level.
3. An increase in PCS factoring, particularly for the ladies, since average/median TES has increased significantly since it was set
4. More clearly defined PCS bullets, more akin to GOE bullets
5. Level 5 spins and steps please, since some lunatics are now talking about quints and all

I agree about level 5 for spins and step sequence. Everyone is getting level 4. If you are really great you get a level 4, if you are mediocre and a favorite you get a 4. There is no reward for being the best. I.e. Deniss Vasiljevs sit spin should get a level 5.

 

[el henry]

I got 2:

Let the skaters choose which elements they want to perform in the SP and FS without any component being mandatory. You want to jump 12 quads? Go for it.

Second, ban the word “artistry” it’s a sport so your job is to score as many points as you can. Haha

Fine, let's call it "performance". Call it whatever the heck you like. But this is a sport that rewards performance skills with points, thank God. In my opinion, those skills should get more points and the skater can then fulfill their job of getting more points.

Jumping off:

Spins, step sequence, choreo, should be rewarded accurately. And with more points.

Skating skills. This is the sport of "figure skating" after all. Reward them.

And spirals and split jumps should get all the points

 

[gliese]

How many times am I going to have to explain that levels only indicate the difficulty of an element, not how well it is performed. GOE exists for a reason.

I agree about level 5 for spins and step sequence. Everyone is getting level 4. If you are really great you get a level 4, if you are mediocre and a favorite you get a 4. There is no reward for being the best. I.e. Deniss Vasiljevs sit spin should get a level 5.

To be honest I could easily craft a level 5 sit spin with the current system that many juvenile competitors could do. I know I could do it and I am no Deniss Vasiljev. I'm a random Intermediate competitor. Illusion (1), sit forward variation (2) for 8 rotations (3), sit side (4) for two rotations, sit back (5) for two rotations. I don't think it would change the game. Unlimited levels on the other hand would change the game a lot and spins would look so cool. Like imagine flying sit with difficult fly, sit forward variation, hop on one foot, hold for 8, fly to change feet, sit side, sit back, then some difficult exit (perhaps an illusion exit). That would be level 8. That's also a lot of stuff in one spin but it would be so cool to see someone do.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

And spirals and split jumps should get all the points

Oh, that reminds me:

6. Introduce level 2-5 for choreographic sequences, with level features such as difficult body position, change of body position, change of edge, etc...

and

7. Change the free skate requirements so that instead of requiring 7 jumping passes, 3 spins, 1 step sequence and 1 choreo sequence, skaters instead have a maximum of 7 jumping passes, maximum of, lets say, 5 spins, 2 step sequences and 2 choreographic sequences, with a maximum of 12 element and a requirement to have at least one of each variety. With a BV increase on higher level spins and steps, skaters who do not have a quad (or 3A in the women's) could feasibly insert a 4th spin in place of a 7th jumping pass in order to remove a double jump and replace it with a higher valued spin. Gives more value to other elements, gives skaters who excel at elements besides jumps a fighting chance, and gives more variety in programs without 'punishing' the skaters who do excel in jumps

 

[gliese]

I would love to see a choreographic step sequence in singles akin to dance.

BV of spins needs to be increased in addition to a better level system. Some level 4 spins are way more difficult that a double flip when they are of equal value without a fly (for me personally, and definitely for any skater who has all stable triples I'd bet). When I go into competition I'm more worried about losing a level on a spin than I am about falling on my double flip because I lose levels on spins more than I fall on double flips.

7. Change the free skate requirements so that instead of requiring 7 jumping passes, 3 spins, 1 step sequence and 1 choreo sequence, skaters instead have a maximum of 7 jumping passes, maximum of, lets say, 5 spins, 2 step sequences and 2 choreographic sequences, with a maximum of 12 element and a requirement to have at least one of each variety. With a BV increase on higher level spins and steps, skaters who do not have a quad (or 3A in the women's) could feasibly insert a 4th spin in place of a 7th jumping pass in order to remove a double jump and replace it with a higher valued spin. Gives more value to other elements, gives skaters who excel at elements besides jumps a fighting chance, and gives more variety in programs without 'punishing' the skaters who do excel in jumps

I love this and how it does not underestimate the difficulty of jumps just to reward spinners. It would be complicated in practice but could work with careful thought.

 

[rollerblade]

I wish for TES to be judged by robots. Separate PCS panel, made up of creatures with no affiliation to any countries.

Clone Shin Amano, so the guy can be the Highlander of Technical Panel.

 

[Jontor]

I'll try to go into each of your suggestions @Jontor. And add some more (sorry).

First the definitions of jumps and rotations. I agree with you mostly, except that I think it's even worse than this. Casual fans (I define the OG audience for the greatest part as that) don't even understand why a skate with falls can win from a clean one. There are reasons for that happening - usually because the fall is during a difficult 4 rotation jump and the clean one doesn't have quadruples. But many people can't see the difference between a quad and a triple, let alone see the difference between a landed jump and a UR. Your suggestion about the scorebox is a good one. They tried something like that at the last OG (I recall Savchenko and Massot having no reviews, just green dots) but I suspect the current tech box seemed more clear - and it does help in following the tech content. I don't know what you can do exactly about making clear that a skates with falls can have more points than a clean skate. I know, you know, many skating fans know why. But to someone who just watches every four years? I don't know.

Step sequences: I love step sequences. I don't think they're boring nowadays but I do miss some of the crazy ones in the earlier days when it wasn't about the number of turns and, how long you can continue on one leg.. But then, I am old! Haha.

Spins: high levels are really to easily achieved in my view. Easy for me to say of course, as I'm only a simple adult skater who gets the basic level at best. But I agree that even slow spins get high levels sometimes (which I don't agree with), as well as awkard positions do. And the Bielmann has become boring. I suppose we should put Stephane Lambiel and Lucinda Ruh together to set up a new system of levels as well as positions with room for creativity. Might take a while.

What about the basic skating skills? I really think skaters who show these off well, should get rewarded for it - and that doesn't just apply to Ice Dancers. THere are skaters whose simple cross-overs make you chill. Get that in a judgement (but I realise it's probably impossible). And performance - and I don't just mean facial expressions. I mean those who can take an audience with them, move them, get them to completely enjoy what they are seeing. Difficult to judge, that's true. Transitions are also desputable: on the one hand nobody likes the too long set ups for jumps, on the other certain skates seem to be too cluttered - just to get transitions in. I would like to see extended landings (B/K used to do that very well) valued more.

Fantastic post @ladyjane . Yes, getting casual viewers to understand figure skating is a chore for sure. I often get that comment, "oh, he/she fell, does it mean he lose now?". Casual viewers simply think that falling equals losing. But here lies also the responsibility in the commentators that are commentating. I would never had become a figure skating fan back in my youth if it wasn't for Eurosport Chris back in 1994. He also had a figure skating school segment during ice resurfing at the time that was very educational. Meanwhile, at Swedish TV the commentators were like "she has a pink dress" and then there was nothing more.

 

[Jontor]

How many times am I going to have to explain that levels only indicate the difficulty of an element, not how well it is performed. GOE exists for a reason.



To be honest I could easily craft a level 5 sit spin with the current system that many juvenile competitors could do. I know I could do it and I am no Deniss Vasiljev. I'm a random Intermediate competitor. Illusion (1), sit forward variation (2) for 8 rotations (3), sit side (4) for two rotations, sit back (5) for two rotations. I don't think it would change the game. Unlimited levels on the other hand would change the game a lot and spins would look so cool. Like imagine flying sit with difficult fly, sit forward variation, hop on one foot, hold for 8, fly to change feet, sit side, sit back, then some difficult exit (perhaps an illusion exit). That would be level 8. That's also a lot of stuff in one spin but it would be so cool to see someone do.

But don't you agree that the basic principal of levels in spins (and steps) are a flaw here? As everyone get those level 4s, it's down to the GOE to decide which one is better. Sadly, as spins and steps have such low BV's the GOE's don't matter that much. And as a consequence, we can see great spinners get top scoring yes, but the mediocre ones are just a half point behind.

 

[Jontor]

Oh, that reminds me:

6. Introduce level 2-5 for choreographic sequences, with level features such as difficult body position, change of body position, change of edge, etc...

and

7. Change the free skate requirements so that instead of requiring 7 jumping passes, 3 spins, 1 step sequence and 1 choreo sequence, skaters instead have a maximum of 7 jumping passes, maximum of, lets say, 5 spins, 2 step sequences and 2 choreographic sequences, with a maximum of 12 element and a requirement to have at least one of each variety. With a BV increase on higher level spins and steps, skaters who do not have a quad (or 3A in the women's) could feasibly insert a 4th spin in place of a 7th jumping pass in order to remove a double jump and replace it with a higher valued spin. Gives more value to other elements, gives skaters who excel at elements besides jumps a fighting chance, and gives more variety in programs without 'punishing' the skaters who do excel in jumps

I like your point 7! I might not agree on your layout, but it is a very nice thought provoking suggestion!!

 

[Minz]

Make spins and step/choreo sequences worth more points. Even just a few more.

Don’t devalue jumps, but just increase the BV of spins and steps by a few points . Considering that most spins are barely worth 4 points (or less), it doesn’t really make sense, especially because the differences in betweeen levels are simply something that could be make up in GOE or something.

I am a fan of both tech and artistry, but I really don’t get why the one Step Sequence in a program is worth like 4 points max, when one could get almost 3 times the points from doing one quad jump with decent GOE.

 

[gliese]

But don't you agree that the basic principal of levels in spins (and steps) are a flaw here? As everyone get those level 4s, it's down to the GOE to decide which one is better. Sadly, as spins and steps have such low BV's the GOE's don't matter that much. And as a consequence, we can see great spinners get top scoring yes, but the mediocre ones are just a half point behind.

Yes. Not sure how that goes against anything I said though.

 

[gliese]

I am a fan of both tech and artistry, but I really don’t get why the one Step Sequence in a program is worth like 4 points max, when one could get almost 3 times the points from doing one quad jump with decent GOE.

I will say, a 4 step sequence is much easier than a quad salchow. That's just a fact. I'm sure we could find ways to make step sequences more difficult though. Same with spins.

 

[Climb]

Quads are not rewarded properly. It is a mockery of the sport when a person with triples can walk over a skater with multiple quads.
Of course, women should be allowed to jump them in SP

Prerotation should be evaluated. It doesn't make sense to me when the tech panel is so vigorously looking at URs but completely ignoring prerotation. I see some skaters having 200+ degrees of prerotation, while others might have only ~90. The difference is huge

 

[Amei]

• Quads allowed in ladies SPs
• Bonus points in the FS if a skater lands at least a double of every jump type

Definitely ban voiceovers, that's my number one request.

And Billie Eilish and the Black eyed-peas

Step out is supposed to be -3. Sometimes judges have favorites though.

Well I can see some step-outs being better than others where the skaters certainly do a step-out of the jump but add movements that cover it up and almost make it look like it could have been choreographed to happen that way

 

[yuumagical]

I'm really hoping that separate TES and PCS judging panels could help things. Although I'm not holding my breath.

 

[gliese]

Well I can see some step-outs being better than others where the skaters certainly do a step-out of the jump but add movements that cover it up and almost make it look like it could have been choreographed to happen that way

Well then the judge shouldn't notice the step out if they covered it well enough so it would score as if it wasn't there. If they didn't, then it's still an obvious step out. The attempt to cover it doesn't really change how bad the execution of the jump was.

 

[gliese]

• Quads allowed in ladies SPs

Literally I don't get why this wasn't there in the first place. IMO the requirements should be the same for ladies and mens.

 

[MCsAngel2]

No voiceovers or spoken word. Sung lyrics are fine.

Separate TES and PCS judging panels.

Spins and step seq worth more.

Get rid of the knee slide for everyone except dance.

Allow a quad in the short, but only one quad OR one 3A, not both.

Also, has 4A been assigned a BV yet? Because Hanyu says he's going to try one at NHK.