What rule changes would you like to see next season?

[Arbitrary]

Quads in Ladies SP is not on the table till the maximum possible BV reached.
Whenever some lady lands 3Ax/3Lz//3F-3F the game is over and quads required to progress. Till now, not necessary.

 

[Skate88]

Get rid of the huge emphasis on the ability to rotate airborne which is NOT skating. Give difficult footwork and spins many more technical points than now. I am fed up with watching anorexic ladies who are gymnasts on ice doing quads but paying little attention to deep edges and skating as opposed to jumping. Limit the number of quads in favor of extremely difficult spins and footwork and emphasize the speed, centering and complexity (all TECHNICAL points) of spins. If jumps are so important to the judges then make multiple combinations be more valuable (how about 3 or 4 triples in a row) or a DELAYED SINGLE AXEL.....ref Robin Cousins. Skaters do not do this now due to points not rewarding this but also because it is DIFFICULT!!! I have not see a real layback for a long time. (ref Sasha Cohen for a real one). Get rid of the extra points for a Bielmann and replace those extra points with points for any layback. I am sick to death of seeing almost every program end with a hideous dog leg position in order to lift the leg up for the Bielmann at the end of the program. It would be a shock to see a gorgeous layback with a good leg position at this point. Make points reward the difficulty of laybacks with or without the Bielmann. (I have nothing against it - just against it having so many points that they all feel obliged to do it).

 

[lariko]

Get rid of the huge emphasis on the ability to rotate airborne which is NOT skating. Give difficult footwork and spins many more technical points than now. I am fed up with watching anorexic ladies who are gymnasts on ice doing quads but paying little attention to deep edges and skating as opposed to jumping. Limit the number of quads in favor of extremely difficult spins and footwork and emphasize the speed, centering and complexity (all TECHNICAL points) of spins. If jumps are so important to the judges then make multiple combinations be more valuable (how about 3 or 4 triples in a row) or a DELAYED SINGLE AXEL.....ref Robin Cousins. Skaters do not do this now due to points not rewarding this but also because it is DIFFICULT!!! I have not see a real layback for a long time. (ref Sasha Cohen for a real one). Get rid of the extra points for a Bielmann and replace those extra points with points for any layback. I am sick to death of seeing almost every program end with a hideous dog leg position in order to lift the leg up for the Bielmann at the end of the program. It would be a shock to see a gorgeous layback with a good leg position at this point. Make points reward the difficulty of laybacks with or without the Bielmann. (I have nothing against it - just against it having so many points that they all feel obliged to do it).

Like… why any of it has to be anti-quad? Just give more BV points for spins, or readjust them to change positions or rewrite GoE rules on spins to emphasize centring/speed for judges, and spin they shall. Jumps are pretty, spins are pretty, all good stuff.

Tbh, I also don’t get all the angst over the deep edges. Why is it even important if they move smoothly and fast?

 

[Skate88]

For the love of all that’s holy, devalue jumps. A lot.

YES! For the love of skating get rid of the point bonus for the GYMNASTIC ability to rotate airborne and instead give tons of points for extremely difficult footwork and spins, extremely strong edging (ref Jason), and LIMIT the number of quads!! I lost my passionate interest in watching skating due to the total emphasis on jumps at the expense of everything else. It's rare to see a skater do extremely difficult skating beautifully and not be distracted by all the jumps. (Hanyu is a good example of someone who does more than just jumps so very well that he is interesting to watch). SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY THE RULES MAKE A DIFFERENT SPORT BE THE ARBITER OF WHO WINS SKATING: gymnastics rule when the ability to rotate airborne governs who wins - every time....check out the following skaters for SKATING : Curry, Sato, Lynn, Fleming, Torville and Dean, G&G,..... - enthralling with no quads.......these are SKATERS, not just jumpers. The jumps were of COURSE PART of the whole, but NOT the total arbiter. I rest my case with the gymnastics argument which is very hard to deny. DEVALUE jumps to be EQUAL to, NOT MORE THAN spins and footwork and edging.

 

[Skate88]

Like… why any of it has to be anti-quad? Just give more BV points for spins, or readjust them to change positions or rewrite GoE rules on spins to emphasize centring/speed for judges, and spin they shall. Jumps are pretty, spins are pretty, all good stuff.

Tbh, I also don’t get all the angst over the deep edges. Why is it even important if they move smoothly and fast?

Of course it is important to move smoothly and fast - these things indicate EDGE control which is fundamental to skating. The very best skaters skate with very little noise because their edges are clean, so that they glide effortlessly and thus MUCH faster. Watch Kwan for the epitome of silent skating. See how many strokes it took her to get across the length of the ice - 2 as I recall. Deep edges make or break the best skating. Jumps are not skating. They are gymnastic.

 

[AxelLover]

I would like to add one more thing: At least one spin in the short and free program should be judged soloely based on spinning speed and number of rotations regardless of positions. I want every skater to show how fast they can spin choosing whatever position they want. Basically just spin as many revolutions as you can in shortest time possible with only one push.

 

[Imagine]

Re-ban program music with lyrics.

 

[lariko]

Of course it is important to move smoothly and fast - these things indicate EDGE control which is fundamental to skating. The very best skaters skate with very little noise because their edges are clean, so that they glide effortlessly and thus MUCH faster. Watch Kwan for the epitome of silent skating. See how many strokes it took her to get across the length of the ice - 2 as I recall. Deep edges make or break the best skating. Jumps are not skating. They are gymnastic.

I hear people clapping to jumps and spins, and it’s not like jumpless ice dance is the most popular discipline. I find it hard to watch tbh, except very few IDs. Why the heck the skating has to be silent? As long as it is fun to watch, energetic or smooth, cutting or dancy or slow, it’s great. If a skater can lit up the world with their program, that’s great. Like, a lot of skaters who are awesome are endlessly criticized for not skating with deep edges, but people upheld the high standard ones who are… not so fun to watch tbh. Like, why should I care for silent skating if it doesn’t make or break it for me? All I see are PCS that put the result on its head with some nebulous assertion that apparently it’s so, so, so much better than jumps. Like, really? Gliding is better than jumps?

I know that a competition with doubles and triples with emphasis on gliding won’t just be boring for me to watch, but I will also never understand why the person won it, and it would make it basically impossible to invest in as a spectator because I wouldn’t have the ability to distinguish between the performances for myself. I also think that there are very, very few people in the world who can honestly see those deep edges on a range with any kind of granularity other than ‘smooth’/‘not smooth’, certainly not on the scale of 1 to 10 or even 5 to 10.

 

[McBibus]

I got 2:

Let the skaters choose which elements they want to perform in the SP and FS without any component being mandatory. You want to jump 12 quads? Go for it.

Second, ban the word “artistry” it’s a sport so your job is to score as many points as you can. Haha

don't forget to rename the sport because that is a new one

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Get rid of the extra points for a Bielmann

Erm... The ISU did that several years ago. There are no extra points for a ring position (AKA biellmann) in the current CoP, it can be used as a level feature for a layback but there are literally 12 other level features available, so unless you want to outright ban the position, you're just going to have to suck it up. And read the damn CoP before you rant about rules that literally don't exist anymore, please.

Also, the jumps in figure skating come from ballet, not gymnastics - they are literally just a tour en l'air with a backwards landing (and usually take-off). That's also why in early days of figure skating, women didn't do jumps - tour en l'airs are usually used in male parts, and not female parts. You can get more rotations from a skate blade because you go into the jump with more momentum, but there are absolutely guys who can hit a double tour en l'air out there, you can literally just youtube it. This whole rant is weird, un-informed and frankly, comes off a kind of spiteful. And this is from someone who was advocating for allowing more spins and steps and increasing their points value.

Edit just to add, but seriously people, layback spins have caused more career-ending injuries to female skaters than quads have; lets not forget that it was training the layback again the took Medvedeva out. Tuktamysheva dealt with a chronic back injury for years that left her incapable of the position, and was forced to start training it again because the women absolutely do get penalised in PCS and GOE for their other jumps of they don't have a layback. This whole attitude of making laybacks mandatory is actually dangerous to the skaters, since the position is inherently dangers if you aren't actually flexible enough to do it - and let be honest, most of the skaters using laybacks aren't actually flexible enough to do it. The ISU banned backflips for being to dangerous, and I actually wouldn't be wholly against it if they banned or devalued laybacks for the same reason.

Lets not keep encouraging skaters to cripple themselves for life, please and thank you.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

I don't think good deep edges are necessarily silent. Patrick Chan's edges ripped.
There are good and bad blade sounds - obviously the toepick-scratching ones are not good - but for instance my coach told me that back in the day of figures, judges could hear a turn and guess whether it was clean or not.

 

[kappa_1]

Of course it is important to move smoothly and fast - these things indicate EDGE control which is fundamental to skating. The very best skaters skate with very little noise because their edges are clean, so that they glide effortlessly and thus MUCH faster. Watch Kwan for the epitome of silent skating. See how many strokes it took her to get across the length of the ice - 2 as I recall. Deep edges make or break the best skating. Jumps are not skating. They are gymnastic.

I’ve only been skating for a few years so someone more experienced please correct me if I’m wrong but…ideally a skater with deep edges and strong skating skills won’t have silent skating right? You hear the ‘rip’ that indicates the edge pressure cutting through the ice (vs the scratchy sounds). Like, a skater could skate silently but on flats which is NOT good SS.

 

[kappa_1]

I don't think good deep edges are necessarily silent. Patrick Chan's edges ripped.
There are good and bad blade sounds - obviously the toepick-scratching ones are not good - but for instance my coach told me that back in the day of figures, judges could hear a turn and guess whether it was clean or not.

Haha sorry I was writing my reply as yours was posting. Great minds

 

[el henry]

....

Lets not keep encouraging skaters to cripple themselves for life, please and thank you.

Exactly. Let's not encourage skaters who cannot spin to do bad spins without the extensive training necessary for good ones and let's not encourage skaters to jump for the mere sake of revolutions in the air.

And everything you have said is wonderful support for why beautiful well centered spins should be worth just as much in BV as more revolutions in the air. And why for some of us, since exciting and even athletic are such subjective terms, they are every bit as if not more exciting than another revolution in a jump.

And why what Jason Brown does, and works for so extensively, and achieves (usually ) with his spins, is every bit the athletic achievement of a high BV jump.

And I'm no huge fan of Bielmanns, I didn't like them when Denise did them, I don't like them now. A beautiful layback or catchfoot on the other hand, particularly with men....

 

[lariko]

Let's not encourage skaters who cannot spin to do bad spins without the extensive training necessary for good ones and let's not encourage skaters to jump for the mere sake of revolutions in the air.

Those two statements are not equivalent, b/c your second statement should be ‘let’s not encourage skaters who cannot jump to do bad jumps without the extensive training necessary for good ones’. In that form it is acceptable. The bad jumpers should learn to jump safely and better if they wish to compete, just like bad spinners try to improve that aspect.

The figure skating jumps are performed for the sake of revolutions in the air and their value increases accordingly with the number of revolutions, up to and including the insufficient number of revolutions in the air leading to the complete disqualification of the element. There is no way the rules are going to be updated to allow skaters in singles and pair discipline to skate a program without jumping passes. Missing a jumping pass will always result in a loss of value.

Devaluing the jumps which constitute half of the technical base, and devaluing technical base all together leads to subjective, non-transparent, and corruption-prone judging turning figure skating into pro-wrestling on ice.

Conversely, increasing the value of the elements that are easy to assign value to, that are easy to understand and evaluate objectively, such as both jumps and spins, leads to transparent, fair judging less prone to corruption and makes figure skating judging less of a joke.

People who support inflation of the unclear judgement categories that are only transferable between events based on precedent and are attached to a skater vs the performance, and cannot be replicated in a blind sample, encourage corruption, favouritism, cult of divas in figure skating and discourage meritocratic break throughs for the challengers and objective assessment and placement in the events of all levels. That precludes the ‘talent will out’ and further encourages the climate of politicking in the sport.

 

[AxelLover]

Devaluing the jumps which constitute half of the technical base, and devaluing technical base all together leads to subjective, non-transparent, and corruption-prone judging turning figure skating into pro-wrestling on ice.

Conversely, increasing the value of the elements that are easy to assign value to, that are easy to understand and evaluate objectively, such as both jumps and spins, leads to transparent, fair judging less prone to corruption and makes figure skating judging less of a joke.

Exactly. This is why I would also like if every +1 GOE added only like 7% or 8% to the BV instead of 10%.

 

[LiamV426]

Uhhh hell no. I can attest to the fact that falling on a triple jump is way harder than landing a double. If that weren't the case, skaters would start attempting triples the second they get their doubles. They don't.

lol no but seriously I still think you should lose *some* of the initial BV on a fall. Maybe my example was extreme but if you lose it for under-rotating a jump (even if you totally sell the landing) then I don't se why you should get full credit for a fall.

 

[el henry]

Those two statements are not equivalent, b/c your second statement should be ‘let’s not encourage skaters who cannot jump to do bad jumps without the extensive training necessary for good ones’. In that form it is acceptable. The bad jumpers should learn to jump safely and better if they wish to compete, just like bad spinners try to improve that aspect.

The figure skating jumps are performed for the sake of revolutions in the air and their value increases accordingly with the number of revolutions, up to and including the insufficient number of revolutions in the air leading to the complete disqualification of the element. There is no way the rules are going to be updated to allow skaters in singles and pair discipline to skate a program without jumping passes. Missing a jumping pass will always result in a loss of value.

Devaluing the jumps which constitute half of the technical base, and devaluing technical base all together leads to subjective, non-transparent, and corruption-prone judging turning figure skating into pro-wrestling on ice.

Conversely, increasing the value of the elements that are easy to assign value to, that are easy to understand and evaluate objectively, such as both jumps and spins, leads to transparent, fair judging less prone to corruption and makes figure skating judging less of a joke.

People who support inflation of the unclear judgement categories that are only transferable between events based on precedent and are attached to a skater vs the performance, and cannot be replicated in a blind sample, encourage corruption, favouritism, cult of divas in figure skating and discourage meritocratic break throughs for the challengers and objective assessment and placement in the events of all levels. That precludes the ‘talent will out’ and further encourages the climate of politicking in the sport.

We agree that all jumpers should learn to jump safely and all spinners learn to spin safely

I prefer to think of my proposal as increasing the value of non jump elements rather than decreasing jump elements. The technical base for me is spins, steps, skating, and jumps. I don't dislike jumps, at all, but in my opinion they should not be the most important element of a program. In my eyes, that is boring, and counting revolutions is boring. I realize it is not boring for others, because of course these are all subjective terms.

We do disagree on performance, which for me is what makes figure skating the sport of figure skating. I do, for example, become extraordinarily frustrated at judges throwing PCS like candy to skaters doing quads (the quad PCS bonus) but I don't think it's corruption. Just laziness on the part of judges maybe.

But then again, without "wuzrobbing", what would skating fans talk about?

 

[moonvine]

Re-ban program music with lyrics.

Music with lyrics is literally the best thing they’ve ever done.

 

[moonvine]

We agree that all jumpers should learn to jump safely and all spinners learn to spin safely

I prefer to think of my proposal as increasing the value of non jump elements rather than decreasing jump elements. The technical base for me is spins, steps, skating, and jumps. I don't dislike jumps, at all, but in my opinion they should not be the most important element of a program. In my eyes, that is boring, and counting revolutions is boring. I realize it is not boring for others, because of course these are all subjective terms.

We do disagree on performance, which for me is what makes figure skating the sport of figure skating. I do, for example, become extraordinarily frustrated at judges throwing PCS like candy to skaters doing quads (the quad PCS bonus) but I don't think it's corruption. Just laziness on the part of judges maybe.

But then again, without "wuzrobbing", what would skating fans talk about?

Well technically what made the sport of figure skating was well, figures. Which no longer exist.

But you know I agree with you.