What rule changes would you like to see next season?

[el henry]

Well technically what made the sport of figure skating was well, figures. Which no longer exist.

But you know I agree with you.

yes, which was like watching paint dry. But it was technical, and boy, could it be precisely measured. Completely objective. Jumps were considered the “tricks”, not an objective measurement. Certainly not as objective as school figures.

and in the Romance languages I know (I don’t know Romanian or Romansch), figure skating is “artistic skating”.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

I do, for example, become extraordinarily frustrated at judges throwing PCS like candy to skaters doing quads (the quad PCS bonus) but I don't think it's corruption. Just laziness on the part of judges maybe.

Jumps aside - even in ice dance, PCS (and GOE) is thrown around arbitrarily. I don't like how reputation-based judging is somehow more normalised in ice dance than the other disciplines. Yes, ice dance is more subjective because of its artistic nature, but it is also an extremely technical discipline despite the lack of jumps...

I feel that strong, precise step sequences and pattern dances should be rewarded more. Lifts and choreographic elements/sequences are spectator-friendly and provide additional room for creativity, so I'm happy that they are included, but they seem to be disproportionately valued considering that they don't seem to require that much actual skating ability (shows like Dancing on Ice feature decent-looking attempts from non-skaters). Seeing teams' overall ranking virtually unaffected when they miss levels on their patterns or step sequences seems wrong, and I say this as a fan of skaters who tend to do this...

 

[AxelLover]

As for the falls, I think they're punished enough. Certainly they're punished now much more than in the last Olympic cycle. Let's take a fall on the 4Lz as an example. In the old rules the BV was 13.6. A fall resulted in –4 GOE, but GOE wasn't proportional to the BV back then, so the skater got 13.6–4=9.6 points. Of course there also was 1 point deduction, hence the score for the 4Lz was basically 8.6 points.

Now, however, 4Lz is worth 11.5 ponts. A fall leads to –5 GOE which means –50% of the BV, which is 5.75. With the 1 point deduction it gives us 4.75. I'd say that is a quite severe punishment, considering that the BV of 3Lz is 5.9. Not to mention that falls also have negative impact on PCS.

 

[bookofcharms]

In terms of jumps, rotations etc, I think pairs dramatically improved when Sui/Han and Savchenko/Massot shifted the focus to very well executed triples and quality skating. That period where heavily telegraphed small quad throws landed in a squat above the ice would win everything was a bit grim.

In terms of ladies and quads, we are still very much in the early stages of the experimental years. I’m interested to watch to see how it turns out and to see in real time just how long the ladies can keep them. It’ll be interesting to look back at the bigger picture in about 5 years time and see what is happening.

I think there’ll be a very small number of ladies (maybe only one or two) who will be able to maintain a quad long term … but then also a steady revolving door of those who can keep it for a year or two of seniors but then grow and lose it.

Managing that is going to be a challenge for ladies skating. Unless they just pour PCS over the skaters who maintain the high level for extended periods … which may be what happens.

 

[lariko]

All 10 jumping passes combined contribute less to the final score than the rest of the technical elements and the PCS, particularly when PCS is prorated upward and has a duplicative mark for Performance and Interpretation, that doubles the points for the same thing.

PCS has become the same as the old, compromised 6.0 system, planted over the better designed scoring. It is a completely fictitious mark, that has no grounding in anything tangible, that is not a matter of opinion.

Letting it take over again, whipping out the objective judgment potential, is a mistake. Nowadays, using PCSs, anything short of a horrendously melt-down skate, can be pushed up in the rank of the competition if desired.

PCS needs to be revised to eliminate the duplication between performance and interpretation, the multipliers should be brought down where they are egregiously high and some sort of PCS live-scoring should be introduced as the skater skates, to stop the use of PCSs as ‘after the fact’ method.

It would be far more objective if PCS amounted to about 30% of the total mark, vs 50% and more as it could be right now at the extremes. Maybe, if PCS exceeds TES, it should be =TES or something.

As a fan, it’s great to have favourites and get attached; but judges shouldn’t have favourites, moreover pull them up. Since it’s human nature to favour, the system itself needs to discourage unfairness. And if it leads to unexpected results, so much the better.

 

[arewhyaen]

My top reform would be to bring back the spiral for ladies. It's just so ludicrous to me that the spiral - one of the most trademark elements in skating - was no longer required, and offers so little points that we're lucky if a lady holds a spiral for longer than a couple seconds.

Somewhat related to that, I would lower the requirements for step sequences (they've become laborious and redundant) and raise the requirements/points for choreographic sequences so that we get some middle ground where there is still some creative freedom in doing step sequences, and chereographic sequences aren't some 15 second after thought that we get at the end of a program

 

[TontoK]

As for the falls, I think they're punished enough. Certainly they're punished now much more than in the last Olympic cycle. Let's take a fall on the 4Lz as an example. In the old rules the BV was 13.6. A fall resulted in –4 GOE, but GOE wasn't proportional to the BV back then, so the skater got 13.6–4=9.6 points. Of course there also was 1 point deduction, hence the score for the 4Lz was basically 8.6 points.

Now, however, 4Lz is worth 11.5 ponts. A fall leads to –5 GOE which means –50% of the BV, which is 5.75. With the 1 point deduction it gives us 4.75. I'd say that is a quite severe punishment, considering that the BV of 3Lz is 5.9. Not to mention that falls also have negative impact on PCS.

Respectfully disagree.

The concept of risk/reward is diminished if there is not a serious penalty for failure to execute.

 

[TontoK]

Also, ban announcers from using ISU bios as introductions for the skaters and give announcers a sheet with the proper countries and name pronunciations.

After the commentary/announcing mess of Skate Canada, it makes me wonder how some of these announcers are chosen….

In the age of the Jumbotron, there's really no reason for misprounced names.

Simply show a short video of the skater introducing himself/herself and maybe what music they're skating to.

Example: "Art Vandelay! I'll be skating to Carmen."

 

[Flying Feijoa]

duplicative mark for Performance and Interpretation

Good point, I was wondering what the difference between the two categories is supposed to be!

Somewhat related to that, I would lower the requirements for step sequences (they've become laborious and redundant) and raise the requirements/points for choreographic sequences so that we get some middle ground where there is still some creative freedom in doing step sequences, and chereographic sequences aren't some 15 second after thought that we get at the end of a program

Agree with this general sentiment, although I would maybe use the term 'adjust' instead of 'lower/raise' - to allow scope for more creativity and variation in the step sequences but not at the cost of diluting their difficulty; and to make the choreo sequences actually valuable points-wise without ending up like the sometimes artistically disruptive identikit spiral sequences we had in the early IJS years. Since we don't have figures anymore, steps/choreo sequences must now play the main role in showcasing technical skating skills (whereas before, they were basically just ways to build up the artistry in programmes).

There are a few great step sequences that I remember from recent years. So I guess it's just a matter of picking the right *sort* of requirements to incentivise the majority of skaters/choreographers... easier said than done!

 

[arewhyaen]

Respectfully disagree.

The concept of risk/reward is diminished if there is not a serious penalty for failure to execute.

Agreed. I think one thing I miss from the 6.0 system is that a fall on a jump usually meant that you weren't going to win - even a step out or a two foot landing could sometimes be costly enough to take you out of 1st place. I could still hear the disappointment in Dick Button's voice saying "two-fooootted" at the end of a triple jump and usually in the context of Sasha Cohen I understand how the points system has pushed the sport, but it's also made watching figure skating a frustrating experience -- that someone could fall, and step out of another jump in the same program, but because of the high difficulty, they aren't really effected.

 

[moonvine]

yes, which was like watching paint dry. But it was technical, and boy, could it be precisely measured. Completely objective. Jumps were considered the “tricks”, not an objective measurement. Certainly not as objective as school figures.

and in the Romance languages I know (I don’t know Romanian or Romansch), figure skating is “artistic skating”.

Did you ever watch Ice Castles? “Triples are just a piece of show off acrobatics! You know what the judges want and you give it to them better than anyone else!”

Sadly I think I know most of the dialogue from that movie.

 

[moonvine]

Agreed. I think one thing I miss from the 6.0 system is that a fall on a jump usually meant that you weren't going to win - even a step out or a two foot landing could sometimes be costly enough to take you out of 1st place. I could still hear the disappointment in Dick Button's voice saying "two-fooootted" at the end of a triple jump and usually in the context of Sasha Cohen I understand how the points system has pushed the sport, but it's also made watching figure skating a frustrating experience -- that someone could fall, and step out of another jump in the same program, but because of the high difficulty, they aren't really effected.

I’m not sure it has “pushed the sport.” It’s made the sport pretty much reliant on only jumping. Now a skater can win a World Championship medal or even a World Championship with spins that wobble all over the place, falls, etc.

 

[Minz]

There has to be some reward for risk otherwise nobody will get anywhere. Even if it's not a reward, just a less severe penalty. But I agree that you can't have people falling left and right and still dominating.

 

[lariko]

that someone could fall, and step out of another jump in the same program, but because of the high difficulty, they aren't really effected.

Only the skaters who have programs of the exceedingly high difficulty, far ahead of the field, fall and show high results. As of last year and this year, what gets rewarded the most are cleaner skates with average or below average level of difficulty. It is also becomes more and more common for the skaters who won the free skate lose in the total points to the skaters who performed cleaner in the short. There is obvious trend to rewarding cleaner performances vs high risk ones. Cautious programming makes for indistinguishable difference in the ranking, like in junior women in Russia. Not exactly a thrilling result when any number of them could have gotten silver if it was half a point here or half a point there

 

[lariko]

Good point, I was wondering what the difference between the two categories is supposed to be!

I would have understood it if the skaters choreographed themselves, did improv or submitted essays on their understanding of their program and musical cuts for that Interpretation. Then, there would have been difference between performance and interpretation of music earned by the skater. I don’t even see original choices of music rewarded in that category.

 

[ladyjane]

This is the best suggestion I’ve ever seen for a rule change! Brilliant — and such a more exciting way to determine short program starting order than world ranking. How widespread is this idea? I wish there was a way for this to happen!

Quite apart from whether one should re-introduce figures or not (it has merit in the sense that figures help in improving skating skills) there is one big problem: I recall that in the 70s and 80s I never understood why some skaters won though they did not have good programmes. You never got to see the figures part, just the Free Skating and the Short Programme (once that was introduced). Someone could have got the highest marks in Figures - but you didn't know because that part of the competition wasn't broadcast. Like with Compulsory dances in ID, and those remained in place for much longer (last time in 2011?), and we did get to see them by the way but I tended to switch them off because I got bored, Figures were rather boring too even if it had been possible to watch. It isn't until current times that I got to see some special (professional?) Figures championships in the US that I started to admire them again. Gary Beacon for example managed to show some beautiful figures that didn't bore at all.

I suspect though that if they were re-introduced in competitive Figure Skating - and they broadcast them - the number of fans would decline. Because nobody would 'get' them except for the diehard Figures lovers. Times have changed. Don't get me wrong, I have really got to understand Figures more, and also started to admire them (if only because I started Adult Skating some years ago and Figures are excellent learning exercises) but I don't think a re-introduction will help in making Figure skating more popular. I do believe the focus on jumps only is not good for the sport (although I love a good quad that fits into a programme) but I don't think a re-introduction of Figures will do the trick. We'll have to find other ways to make good skating - skating skills, spins, step sequences - more important to the result.

 

[Lzbee]

Is it not possible to have a figures competition where there is a performance too? Like a normal figure skating programme but they are judged on the ice tracings afterwards as well? Perhaps skaters could leave a few cones or something out to help them get their bearings.

I've never watched a figures competition but I've found over the pandemic that it's really enjoyable watching skating on natural lake ice. The ice tracings are very satisfying.

 

[gliese]

lol no but seriously I still think you should lose *some* of the initial BV on a fall. Maybe my example was extreme but if you lose it for under-rotating a jump (even if you totally sell the landing) then I don't se why you should get full credit for a fall.

Because when you under rotate you aren't just doing the jump badly, you're not actually doing the jump as it is defined (aka you're doing it incorrectly). A fal on a fully rotated jump is an example of doing the jump badly but still correctly. That's why your GOE is -5 for a fall and you also lose a point for the fall.

 

[Jontor]

1) I'd like to see falls penalised more than they are. I think the +5/-5 system has taken steps in the right direction but I'm sick of all the splatfests. Tbh I'm not even sure you should get any points for an element you fell on. I'd be fine with the element being invalidated (same case if you fall during a spin or step sequence). Is that too harsh of me? Ok how about instead of zero points you get the downgraded BV? So a fall on a 4Lz gets you a BV of 5.9 (3Lz), in addition to -5 GOE and a deduction. Same if you fall on a 3Lz, you only get the BV of a 2Lz.

I just want to see cleaner programs and I think penalising falls more will encourage people to attempt jumps they know they can land. I don't know if my suggestion is the best way to go about it but if you lose BV automatically for under-rotating then the same should be applied to falls as you did not complete the element.

Some other ideas that have already being mentioned and I agree with:

2) Separate judging panels for all Senior A competitions.
3) Factor the woman's PCS as 1.0 in the SP and 2.0 in the FP. Maybe also increase the men's to 1.2 in the SP and 2.2 in the FP.
4) Get rid of the compulsory solo jump in the SP for juniors. It's just silly, and allow the girls to a solo 3A like the boys. Definitely don't allow Quads in the SP, I'd fine with not allowing them in the FP either tbh.
5) Raise the age limit.

I like your point #1. Falls should be punished more. I suggest deductions of 2 for every fall.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

YES! For the love of skating get rid of the point bonus for the GYMNASTIC ability to rotate airborne and instead give tons of points for extremely difficult footwork and spins, extremely strong edging (ref Jason), and LIMIT the number of quads!! I lost my passionate interest in watching skating due to the total emphasis on jumps at the expense of everything else. It's rare to see a skater do extremely difficult skating beautifully and not be distracted by all the jumps. (Hanyu is a good example of someone who does more than just jumps so very well that he is interesting to watch). SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY THE RULES MAKE A DIFFERENT SPORT BE THE ARBITER OF WHO WINS SKATING: gymnastics rule when the ability to rotate airborne governs who wins - every time....check out the following skaters for SKATING : Curry, Sato, Lynn, Fleming, Torville and Dean, G&G,..... - enthralling with no quads.......these are SKATERS, not just jumpers. The jumps were of COURSE PART of the whole, but NOT the total arbiter. I rest my case with the gymnastics argument which is very hard to deny. DEVALUE jumps to be EQUAL to, NOT MORE THAN spins and footwork and edging.

This is what a gymnast do https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sf_fv-WuGIk And this is what ballet dancers do https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-tW0CkvdDI That ballet dancer performed double jumps in his routine (in a combo too) and certainly would perform quads if that is possible on a floor. Does todays figure skaters programmes in which skaters are jumping quads, spinning fast and have insane flexibility look to you as the girl in the first video or as the guy in the second video? BTW, the only truly gymnastic element someone performed on the competitive ice was Syria Bonaly's backflip at Nagano, which judges ignored.