2021-2022 U.S. Men's Figure Skating

[ice coverage]

A good triple/triple combo for Taira Shinohara, as he leads after the SP. Joseph Klein follows very closely in 2nd.

2022 U.S. Figure Skating Championship Series prese

Event Results for 2022 U.S. Figure Skating Championship Series prese

ijs.usfigureskating.org

On a side note, did anyone see Tairo Hiroshina's SP at Fort Wayne comp last night? He did really well and looks really young. Joseph Klein is in the same comp. IMO TH is another young man from the US to look out for.

For me, it is a headline that *Taira Shinohara* ( yes, whose name is one to remember) had a strong SP in Fort Wayne.
Fifteen-year-old Shinohara is fun to follow on Instagram, and he had been understandably thrilled after Blaine, where it was his FS score that shone. Hope that he can keep up the good work with his FS in Fort Wayne.

It is very welcome news too that Joe Klein also had a strong SP in Fort Wayne. Hopefully a good sign that he is moving past injury earlier in the season. Best wishes to Joe with his FS as well.

Sorry to see that Daniel Martynov, who had been listed as an entry in Junior Men in the early Fort Wayne PDF, did not compete.
He also had withdrawn from his JGP assignment this season.
He is on the early list for Alpharetta, and I hope that he will compete there.

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... I imagine the purpose of sending Ilia to Austria is to earn validated international minimums. If the Olympics are out of reach (and I don't quite concede that, at least yet) Ilia would still be eligible for 4CC and Worlds, provided he meets the minimums. ...

Although it will be a tall order for Ilia to earn one of the three Olympic slots, I agree that it is premature to count him out entirely.

At the very least, USFS presumably would want Ilia to be available to serve as a viable Olympic alternate (especially if USFS were to name him as first alternate) -- which would be yet another important reason to send him to Austria to go after the senior minimums.

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With those files you know as much as I do! My understanding is that while some events are usually (always?) Challengers, others are not. ...

Per another annual ISU document, the ongoing "core group" of Challengers year after year includes: Nebelhorn, Finlandia, Nepela, Golden Spin, plus an event in Canada or USA.

p.s. I don't think it has been mentioned yet that scores that count toward ISU Season's Bests are another advantage of a Challenger (as opposed to just a "Senior B").

 

[yelyoh]

Taira is 15!?!?!? He looks 12!! But then again so did I when I was his age which is why I was still acting in roles written for 12 year olds.

 

[Tavi...]

At this point, Jason would have to have disaster performance at Nationals for Ilia to make the team. Jason has a HUGE Body Of Work edge on Ilia and you know the US Judges will throw as many PCS as it takes to make sure Jason makes the team. I love Ilia but, unlike the Ladies field, our Men are pretty solid as they are.

Jason does have a great body of work, and I’m really hoping he makes the team. But just remember that this year the selection procedures document puts a big emphasis on how high your scores are and what the scoring trend is as a way of assessing how competitive you are for medals.

The good news is that Jason has always placed top ten at Worlds, and frequently medals at GPs / Sr Bs, even if his scores are lower than his PB (this was true both for Finlandia and Skate Canada). So in that sense he’s very competitive. But he’s not super competitive for medals at the World/Olympic level.

Assuming he skates well at Nats I’m sure he’ll get high PCS.

I think what’s driving the discussion here is that Ilia has shown he is capable of earning a very high tech score, and sometimes Nats judges have awarded high PCS /GOE to skaters with high BV because they’re exciting new talents, etc. We saw that when Vincent first turned senior, for example. Now, will that happen this year with Ilia? We don’t know yet. But many people seem to think that if he scores/ places well at his challenger and he wins or looks great at the JGPF, that’s what might happen.

 

[Lutzedge]

On a side note, did anyone see Tairo Hiroshina's SP at Fort Wayne comp last night? He did really well and looks really young. Joseph Klein is in the same comp. IMO TH is another young man from the US to look out for.

I didn't realize Tairo was 15 until today.

 

[mrrice]

Jason does have a great body of work, and I’m really hoping he makes the team. But just remember that this year the selection procedures document puts a big emphasis on how high your scores are and what the scoring trend is as a way of assessing how competitive you are for medals.

The good news is that Jason has always placed top ten at Worlds, and frequently medals at GPs / Sr Bs, even if his scores are lower than his PB (this was true both for Finlandia and Skate Canada). So in that sense he’s very competitive. But he’s not super competitive for medals at the World/Olympic level.

Assuming he skates well at Nats I’m sure he’ll get high PCS.

I think what’s driving the discussion here is that Ilia has shown he is capable of earning a very high tech score, and sometimes Nats judges have awarded high PCS /GOE to skaters with high BV because they’re exciting new talents, etc. We saw that when Vincent first turned senior, for example. Now, will that happen this year with Ilia? We don’t know yet. But many people seem to think that if he scores/ places well at his challenger and he wins or looks great at the JGPF, that’s what might happen.

Here's the thing about Jason. You have to look far and wide to find an event where didn't do well. He defeated the top Canadian, IMO, Keegan Messing and a Pack Of Russian Men at Skate Canada. That will go a long way with the US Judges and the Committee.

 

[Tavi...]

Here's the thing about Jason. You have to look far and wide to find an event where didn't do well. He defeated the top Canadian, IMO, Keegan Messing and Pack Of Russian Men at Skate Canada. That will go a long way with the US Judges and the Committee.

Yes of course. Jason is my favorite skater, so of course I’m hoping he skates great at Nats and makes it back to the Olympics. And I hope the US judges agree with you.

 

[SnowWhite]

So far Ilia has his two JGP scores to count for the selection (214.64, 245.35). Neither has met the top 10 benchmark yet, though the 2nd one was very close. He has two more international events to add to his body of work before Nats (CS Austria and the JGPF). If he can show a positive trend in the scores and get a couple that meet the top ten benchmark, that will help his case.

 

[el henry]

I would like to say just a few words about the benchmarks generally....

I don't think they were set forth so that the US Fed could run skaters through metrics and go, ooh, look, you're two points ahead, you're on the Olympic team now. Or so that fans could measure with each comp to see who was closer to being on the team.

I think of them as the "Ross Miner" rule. They were set forth so that the US Fed could say, if let's say Tomoki skates lights out at Nats and finishes second (and I love Tomoki and that would be cool) sorry, no way in heck are you going to the Olympics, next man up.

In other words it's "cover". Now this is just my own speculation and I have nothing from USFS to base it on. But IMO the US Fed will pick who they want to pick, not add up each and every number to see who is where (and I'm not saying anyone said that, that's an exaggeration for comparison's sake.)

So we'll see when they do it.

 

[Apple1078]

I would like to say just a few words about the benchmarks generally....

I don't think they were set forth so that the US Fed could run skaters through metrics and go, ooh, look, you're two points ahead, you're on the Olympic team now. Or so that fans could measure with each comp to see who was closer to being on the team.

I think of them as the "Ross Miner" rule. They were set forth so that the US Fed could say, if let's say Tomoki skates lights out at Nats and finishes second (and I love Tomoki and that would be cool) sorry, no way in heck are you going to the Olympics, next man up.

In other words it's "cover". Now this is just my own speculation and I have nothing from USFS to base it on. But IMO the US Fed will pick who they want to pick, not add up each and every number to see who is where (and I'm not saying anyone said that, that's an exaggeration for comparison's sake.)

So we'll see when they do it.

I agree 100%. The USFS wants to pick the team themselves (they don't want a David Boudia sort of situation like in diving).

ETA: Obviously, this is also just me speculating like @el henry. I just agree with the theory.

 

[kan01]

If it's true, it makes me even more nervous, 'cause Jason's scores are okay, but who knows what the fed really wants?

 

[Skater Boy]

Yes of course. Jason is my favorite skater, so of course I’m hoping he skates great at Nats and makes it back to the Olympics. And I hope the US judges agree with you.

I think Jason will go to the olympics. He is consistent. Jimmy and Vinny are not so consistent. Ilia is pretty new. I think Jason will have enough body of work. He might not get to skate the team even though.

 

[Weathergal]

I'd happily put Jason's "Sinnerman" SP in the Team Event -- and not just because I really like Jason.

 

[mrrice]

I think Jason will go to the olympics. He is consistent. Jimmy and Vinny are not so consistent. Ilia is pretty new. I think Jason will have enough body of work. He might not get to skate the team even though.

Does only 1 Man from each team get to skate or, could Vincent skate the SP and Nathan the LP? With the strength of our Men this year, they could go with any of the Men. Has Nathan committed to skating in the team event?

 

[TontoK]

Does only 1 Man from each team get to skate or, could Vincent skate the SP and Nathan the LP? With the strength of our Men this year, they could go with any of the Men. Has Nathan committed to skating in the team event?

If the rules are the same as they have been in previous cycles, each team can substitute twice from the SP to the LP, assuming they have more than one entry into the regular event.

So, there could be some "pick two" combination of 2 men, 2 ladies, 2 pairs, 2 dance... with the other two disciplines not being allowed to substitute. Of course, teams can choose to substitute only once, or not to substitute at all.

I think I recall that Nathan has indicated he wants to partipate in the team event. My guess is that he'll be substituted out as the team competition goes to the LP.

 

[moonvine]

Ilia also needs the senior ISU TES minimum for Worlds (presuming that he does not go to the Olympics and that in an Olympic year Worlds, skaters like Nathan would choose not to go).

I do not know if he can get those at a Senior B. Desultory googling did not give me an answer

Google? We don’t need no stinkin Google. We have @ice coverage .

 

[moonvine]

At this point, Jason would have to have a disaster performance at Nationals for Ilia to make the team. Jason has a HUGE Body Of Work edge on Ilia and you know the US Judges will throw as many PCS as it takes to make sure Jason makes the team. I love Ilia but, unlike the Ladies field, our Men are pretty solid as they are.

Exactly. Jason has been having a GREAT year so far. His best in a long time if not ever.

 

[ucrgirl]

If the rules are the same as they have been in previous cycles, each team can substitute twice from the SP to the LP, assuming they have more than one entry into the regular event.

So, there could be some "pick two" combination of 2 men, 2 ladies, 2 pairs, 2 dance... with the other two disciplines not being allowed to substitute. Of course, teams can choose to substitute only once, or not to substitute at all.

I think I recall that Nathan has indicated he wants to partipate in the team event. My guess is that he'll be substituted out as the team competition goes to the LP.

I think I read an NBC article where Nathan said he wanted to do the team event. I agree that it seems likely he would do the SP and let Vincent or Jason do the LP. (My understanding is that the men's individual competition is almost immediately after the team event so I bet most of them would prefer to do the SP. Since Vincent and Nathan both look to be in the individual medal hunt I would understand if they were tempted to pass on skating the LP in the team event.)

The US team could be fighting for Silver in the team event so that may encourage participation despite the rough schedule.

 

[StitchMonkey]

I have said this before and am going to keep saying it. US Ice Dance has bloody earned two spots in the team event. C?B and H/D have been top teams forever and a day, it is not rational to try to pick one for the team over the other... they are both to good and should both be rewarded.

It that means Jason misses the team event, so be it, fair is fair. If we we only have one ladies medalist so be it. Ice dance has earned the love.

Nathan has earned something of a first right of refusal, so if he wants both events, that is fair. (But even than, we are weighing fairness of one person with an Olympic medal vs four without) I am not even opposed to Vincent skating both if we get to teams in ice dance (though Vincent seems so unfunloving a team even almost seems painful for him).

I would love to see Jason in the team event, he is a very team spirited guy, but this time, i just hope USFS does the right thing.

I could see Jason skating both halves... of all the single skaters he may be most likely to be down for that.

I have no idea if it would be better to use one lady or one man... heck i see an argument for swapping pairs actually! But if nothing else, I do hope all singles skaters are willing to do both, if they want to be on the team.

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

I think Jason will do the SP, because 1. Sinnerman, 2. Sinnerman, 3. he will become a fan favorite. Nathan will probably do the LP, because the US needs a solid skater to place in the top 2/3 in both segments in order to get the silver medal in the Team Event. Although Nathan probably wants to do the SP, strategy-wise it's not a good idea. Jason can easily score 95 in the SP and be competitive with the other skaters, but in the free his advantage is greatly diminished because he's up against so many guys with multiple quads.

 

[Apple1078]

I think Jason will do the SP, because 1. Sinnerman, 2. Sinnerman, 3. he will become a fan favorite. Nathan will probably do the LP, because the US needs a solid skater to place in the top 2/3 in both segments in order to get the silver medal in the Team Event. Although Nathan probably wants to do the SP, strategy-wise it's not a good idea. Jason can easily score 95 in the SP and be competitive with the other skaters, but in the free his advantage is greatly diminished because he's up against so many guys with multiple quads.

I think Nathan will do the SP because of the schedule. The LP is the day before the men's individual SP.